Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby oldsmokey » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:06 pm

Thanks for the replies. I think I got it - get the width right for the roof skin first, worry about the mattress width second. Makes sense. I think I'll go with an internal cleat.
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby CharlieL » Fri Dec 26, 2014 6:14 pm

Water Proofing wood? Go to Foamies topic, then to waterproof your wood. read up and try that =, cheap, easy, almost foolproof to defeat wood rot
Someday I will get off my rump and jump into a build, Thanks folks, for the info. and the things y'all do for one another

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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby Diemjoe » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:51 pm

I was wondering if someone could explain the method for creating the Dado in Doug's Girlings Illustrations. Is it truly routed out of a skinned sleleton to the width of the top piece of floor Plywood or is the Skeleton bottom sawed off then skinned with the sawed Skeleton bottom Reattached to the floor?

I hope this question makes sense.
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby tony.latham » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:39 pm

Diemjoe wrote:I was wondering if someone could explain the method for creating the Dado in Doug's Girlings Illustrations. Is it truly routed out of a skinned sleleton to the width of the top piece of floor Plywood or is the Skeleton bottom sawed off then skinned with the sawed Skeleton bottom Reattached to the floor?

I hope this question makes sense.


Diemjoe:

You're question has been sitting unanswered for a couple of days. I've built walls for three teardrops, all using sandwiched construction and Fredrick's build manual. I have not used the dado'd method as shown in the illistrations.

I wouldn't do it with a router. Here's how I'd build the walls. Let's assume you are going to make the walls with 3/4" plywood for the skeleton and 1/4" ply for the interior/exterior.

1. Cut your exterior walls. (You can "gang" cut both at the same time.)
2. Cut your structural skeletons. The bottom of the skeleton will be the "top" of the dado that will sit on your wall.
3. Glue your skeleton to the exterior wall. The exterior will be about.... I don't know.... maybe 2.75" higher than your skeleton. (depends on your individual sketch)
4. Rip a piece of 3/4" plywood the width of the bottom portion of your wall (and the length of the wall).
5. Rip a piece of 1/4" ply the same width and glue it to the above piece of 3/4".
5a. Let's call thise pieces the "dado blocks" for slimplicity.
6. Make up a three or four "spacer blocks" that are the same width of your floor. For simplistic sake, let's say your are using 3/4" plywood for your floor. Cover these pieces with wax paper.
7. Set your wall on your saw horses of bench or whatever horizontal surface you are building on.
8. Glue your dado blocks to the bottom of your wall and use the spacer blocks to form the correct width of dado while the glue sets.

Capish?

Tony

p.s. I use the rabbit joint. It's easy to set the wall in place. I use PL Premium glue, screw to the outside of the wall into the floor (3/4" pine "skeleton), and then Kreg screw into the floor from the outside, and screw from the floor up into the wall's skeleton with flathead screws.

Image

You can see I did the Kreg screws on the inside of these walls:

Image
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby Diemjoe » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:52 pm

Thanks Tony, That's a nice step by step. Thanks for taking the time. I'll absorb it over the weekend with the walls and floor in front of me.

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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby tony.latham » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:01 pm

Diemjoe wrote:Thanks Tony, That's a nice step by step. Thanks for taking the time. I'll absorb it over the weekend with the walls and floor in front of me.

Don


Now that I think about it, I'd probably put the interior sheathing on the skeleotn first. It of course would butt along the bottom of the skeleton. But it'll work either way.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.

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Re: Wall attachment options..3/4" ply. and rabbet joint

Postby Franco Novo » Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:23 pm

Nice graphic.
Plenty of ways to do this, I opted for simple
The sides of my trailer are 3/4" AC plywood
The floor is one sheet of 3/4" plywood as well. I just used carriage bolts and fastened the plywood floor right to the trailer frame. No need for a wood frame underneath.
3/8" deep Rabbet the bottom edge of each wall, just so it covers the plywood floor edge, not the metal frame, and the shoulder sits on the bed. Gotta keep all the height we can. :)

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Splooged the joint up with some heavy duty construction adhesive.....sit the walls in place (have some temp. bracing in place) and screwed through the bottom sides into the end grain of the plywood floor. I'm working myself, if you can grab an extra set of hands, it'd be helpful, because that 3/4 ply is heavy and mighty unwieldy. But, once the shoulder of the rabbet joint is sitting on the floor, you can screw into your temp. braces to hold it, then run along the bottom of each side with a countersink bit and screws...sucks it right in.

Image

No skeleton, or 2x4 frame, or even 1x2 battens inside. Obviously, I'm not planning on insulating.
and, living in Florida is a plus, it just doesn't get that cold.
Once you get the cross member framing in, and the spars , roof on the top, front and back on, the whole box tightens up..every joint is glued and screwed..... it's plenty strong.
This thing is bombproof.

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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby rustytoolss » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:10 pm

8)
Mostly Old Parts And Rust= MOPAR
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby kokomoto » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:24 pm

tony.latham wrote:
Diemjoe wrote:I was wondering if someone could explain the method for creating the Dado in Doug's Girlings Illustrations. Is it truly routed out of a skinned sleleton to the width of the top piece of floor Plywood or is the Skeleton bottom sawed off then skinned with the sawed Skeleton bottom Reattached to the floor?

I hope this question makes sense.


Diemjoe:

You're question has been sitting unanswered for a couple of days. I've built walls for three teardrops, all using sandwiched construction and Fredrick's build manual. I have not used the dado'd method as shown in the illistrations.

I wouldn't do it with a router. Here's how I'd build the walls. Let's assume you are going to make the walls with 3/4" plywood for the skeleton and 1/4" ply for the interior/exterior.

1. Cut your exterior walls. (You can "gang" cut both at the same time.)
2. Cut your structural skeletons. The bottom of the skeleton will be the "top" of the dado that will sit on your wall.
3. Glue your skeleton to the exterior wall. The exterior will be about.... I don't know.... maybe 2.75" higher than your skeleton. (depends on your individual sketch)
4. Rip a piece of 3/4" plywood the width of the bottom portion of your wall (and the length of the wall).
5. Rip a piece of 1/4" ply the same width and glue it to the above piece of 3/4".
5a. Let's call thise pieces the "dado blocks" for slimplicity.
6. Make up a three or four "spacer blocks" that are the same width of your floor. For simplistic sake, let's say your are using 3/4" plywood for your floor. Cover these pieces with wax paper.
7. Set your wall on your saw horses of bench or whatever horizontal surface you are building on.
8. Glue your dado blocks to the bottom of your wall and use the spacer blocks to form the correct width of dado while the glue sets.

Capish?

Tony

p.s. I use the rabbit joint. It's easy to set the wall in place. I use PL Premium glue, screw to the outside of the wall into the floor (3/4" pine "skeleton), and then Kreg screw into the floor from the outside, and screw from the floor up into the wall's skeleton with flathead screws.

Image

You can see I did the Kreg screws on the inside of these walls:

Image


I'm preparing to build the skeleton frame, and would like to use the above the method you described. I've read through it many times, word for word, and having trouble picturing what it is you're doing with the dado or the rabbet joint. In particular, what is the 1/4" ply doing and can you clarify step 8? With rabbet, are you cutting the rabbet or groove in the floor, then setting the wall down into it? I think I've looked at too many ideas on this forum, and my mind is melting some of them together. :?

I'm using 1x4 frame sandwiched between 1/4" ply for both the walls and floor. Do you have a sketch or close up pic of the joint for illustration?
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby tony.latham » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:14 pm

You know... I had to read that mess three times before I understood what the heck I was trying to communicate too. (and this is from an alleged writer–-gawd!)

8. Glue your dado blocks to the bottom of your wall and use the spacer blocks to form the correct width of dado while the glue sets.


That should have been: 8. Clamp (not glue) your spacer blocks to the bottom of your wall to form the correct width of dado (or gap for your floor) while the glue sets.

I humbly apologize. The 1/4" is added to the 3/4" ply so your interior plywood butts to it.

Image

Perhaps that's why wanna-be writers have editors. :thumbdown:

Tony
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby kokomoto » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:05 pm

Thanks Tony. I don't have an emoji with a light bulb over it's head. That's what I need.

Just to make sure though....

What I will end up with is a wall with the entire thickness of the skeleton and interior plywood sitting atop the outer edge of the floor. The exterior plywood will extend down, covering the exposed end (edge) of the skeleton floor. Soooo, the entire bottom of the assembly will be flush or flat. Nice fitting joint with no router required. Sound about right?

If that is correct, then...

My trailer frame will be 60" wide. In order to maintain that 60" width for the cabin (so that 60" plywood an aluminum sheet will work on the roof), I'll have to make thee floor width 59 1/2" (1/4" in from each side) so that the outside of the exterior plywood extending down to the frame will be flush with the outer frame tubing.

While attending a leadership course many moons ago, we were asked to write down a step-by-step procedure to assemble some simple thing. We made a considerable effort to make it so simple that a monkey could follow it. When other students used the procedure to build the thing, it was interesting to see them build something quite different than what was intended. Humbled indeed!

:beer: to your editor, and thanks again!
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby tony.latham » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:03 pm

Soooo, the entire bottom of the assembly will be flush or flat. Nice fitting joint with no router required. Sound about right?


Exactly right.

I'll have to make thee floor width 59 1/2" (1/4" in from each side) so that the outside of the exterior plywood extending down to the frame will be flush with the outer frame tubing.


Yep... with one caveat. The so-called 1/4" plywood underlayment that I use––which is higher quality (and cheaper) than the 1/4" AC stuff–– isn't .250, it's .218". So keep that in mind.

I weld my trailer frame 1/2" narrower than the finished cabin so that the bottom-corner trim doesn't touch the steel. That may be overkill since steel tubing has about that much of a radius on the corner anyway. If your chassis is already done, don't worry about that. It'll work fine.

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And one for you. :beer:

Tony
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby kokomoto » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:29 am

:thumbsup:

Yep, I noticed that when making the template. The birch ply is a bit over 3/16" it appears.

As far as the bottom trim goes, I figure I'll cross that bridge when I get there. In the meantime, I'll put a few coats of RaKA insurance on all of the ply.
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby QueticoBill » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:54 pm

I like this attachment option - the wall being "grooved" and the floor having a "tongue", and in my preliminary plans have the outer skin dropping to hide frame, which is I think what you are describing, My question is, are the screws necessary in teh event of future disassembly, or would a healthy bead of good wood glue not be entirely satisfactory? Trying to preserve that unblemished ply for a woody look (and bottom trim piece is below top of frame - so that won't hide these fasteners.)
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Re: Wall attachment options...illustrated!!!

Postby kokomoto » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:13 pm

QueticoBill wrote:I like this attachment option - the wall being "grooved" and the floor having a "tongue", and in my preliminary plans have the outer skin dropping to hide frame, which is I think what you are describing, My question is, are the screws necessary in teh event of future disassembly, or would a healthy bead of good wood glue not be entirely satisfactory? Trying to preserve that unblemished ply for a woody look (and bottom trim piece is below top of frame - so that won't hide these fasteners.)


My build will be aluminum clad. I can see why someone building a woody would be interested in avoiding screws. The bottom edge of the outside wall will be flush with both the top of the frame rail and the outer surface of the frame rail. As for the adhesive, I'll be using T-88 epoxy glue for the wall/floor joint. I have some left over from an aircraft project, so I thought I'd put it to good use. Lots of folks seem to like the PL premium too. The screws, while perhaps not absolutely necessary, will keep everything where it should be, and will be hidden behind the aluminum. I guess it could be clamped while the glue sets without resorting to using the kreg screws.
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