Switch to Toyota spec hubs

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Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby TPATT88 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:11 pm

Hi Guys!

So I recently bought this custom trailer and it appears to be on a small HF chassis (or something similar).
Image

It looks like it is the 4' x 8' version. I have a 2010 4Runner as my tow vehicle and am hoping to get this thing ready to go down some fire roads / light offroad trails to get to various camping locations (no rock crawling!) and I think the first large step is to get some real wheels and tires on her. I want to match to my 4Runner with 17" VTX Offroad Viper wheels on 285/70/17 Toyo Open Country AT2's.
Image

I know this is overkill most likely, but having matching spares to my TV seems smart, and I know it would lift the trailer to match my 4Runner and get it much better clearance. Plus these little trailer tires are so small!

My question is, after a lot of google searching and looking through here I am kind of fuzzy on how to get this done. The hub is a 4 lug and I need to get to a 6x139.7 Toyota size hub. I see many 4 to 5 lug adapters out there but no 4 to 6 lug adapters. Can I simply switch the hubs to the 4Runner's front hubs (probably expensive but oh well). I know the backspacing would be an issue as well so would I need a longer/wider axel altogether? Is this hub kit from Dexter K08-250-90: Hub-Drum Kit http://beta.dexteraxle.com/products/Hub ... b-hub-drum what I need? Do I need to find a shop that will do this whole thing custom for me (whole new axle/hub etc?).

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here with this question. I can't seem to "search" my way into the right answer.

Thanks for the guidance folks!

Tim
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby Padilen » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:11 am

This gets asked every now and then. I'd not use the hubs on a HF or similar with wheel adapters for bigger tires. Assuming they 'd even fit. The cost of a heavier better quality& most likely longer axle. With the correct bolt pattern hub, spring mounts( in correct position) and perhaps new springs, can get expensive. Modding fenders if needed too. Only someone who has done this mod would have an idea of cost and parts needed. As most teardrops are custom you may need different mods.



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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby Dale M. » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:48 am

I believe all 6 lug pattern to be the same, should be 6 on 5.5 inches (6 on 139.7mm).... So a hub with 6 bolts pattern from some place like etrailer should fit the spec wheels you desire....

http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods ... z4qaPcJFRH

How ever doubt hub from etrailer will fit your trailer axles....

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hubs-a ... -5UC1.html

Bearing, Race, and Seal Information
Bearings (included)
Inner bearing: 25580 (1.75" inner diameter)
Outer bearing: LM67048 (1.25" inner diameter)
Races (included)
Inner race: 25520
Outer race: LM67010
Grease seal (included): 10-10
Inner diameter: 2.125"
Outer diameter: 3.376"

I would think one would also have to change axle or at least change spindles to make 6 lug "trailer hubs" work...

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Trailer_Spindles.aspx

One other option may be and not to likely is to have your current hubs redrilled and new studs added for the 6 lug wheels.... The diameter of the face of HF hub will crucial for this concept and I will bet there is not enough material there to do it safely....
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby aggie79 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:17 am

Also need to consider tire height and wheel offset.
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby working on it » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:20 pm

TPATT88 wrote:Hi Guys!
So I recently bought this custom trailer and it appears to be on a small HF chassis (or something similar).
Image
It looks like it is the 4' x 8' version. I have a 2010 4Runner as my tow vehicle and am hoping to get this thing ready to go down some fire roads / light offroad trails to get to various camping locations (no rock crawling!) and I think the first large step is to get some real wheels and tires on her. I want to match to my 4Runner with 17" VTX Offroad Viper wheels on 285/70/17 Toyo Open Country AT2's....I know this is overkill most likely, but having matching spares to my TV seems smart, and I know it would lift the trailer to match my 4Runner and get it much better clearance. Plus these little trailer tires are so small!
My question is, after a lot of google searching and looking through here I am kind of fuzzy on how to get this done. The hub is a 4 lug and I need to get to a 6x139.7 Toyota size hub. I see many 4 to 5 lug adapters out there but no 4 to 6 lug adapters. Can I simply switch the hubs to the 4Runner's front hubs (probably expensive but oh well). I know the backspacing would be an issue as well so would I need a longer/wider axel altogether? ... Tim
  • I'm no expert here, but as I am trying to get my 4x8 squareback TTT to the point where I can finally get on fire roads or other light overlanding roads, I have been upgrading my suspension and rolling stock towards that goal. I started out with a trailer of unknown type, origin, or capabilities ($50), enlarged the frame from 50"x 60" to 4'x 8', and switched from 8" wheels to 14". I knew from just looking at the 1.25" square tube axle, that it was incapable of sem-off road travels, but my budget (no, or low) dictated that I use it until I had occasion/justification for an axle upgrade.
  • I put larger hubs/bearings onto the original axle stubs, in order to fit the 14" tires, and used spacer/adapters (1.5 ?") to gain clearance for the wider section width of the 14" tires. After several trips, the overloaded trailer busted a spring hanger off, so I had the justification to replace the entire spindly axle with a much stronger 3500 lb. Dexter (with brakes), and used new, heavy-duty springs, hangers, and hardware, which I welded & bolted to my newly reinforced frame. Now, my TTT could go down fire roads without my fearing the axle would snap (by the way, my original axle probably was rated less than 1000 lbs.; my trailer became camp-able at 1438 lbs, and now is 2020 lbs). My latest addition is adding 27x 8.5-14 LT General Grabber AT2 all-terrain tires, which should work better off-road (and on-road) than the 12 year-old Carlisle bias-ply ST tires they replaced.
  • As far as your trailer, rolling stock, and fire road travelling aspirations go, relating to my experience building up my trailer, I can say "just go ahead and upgrade your axle, springs, tires & wheels now", because it will be easier to do all at once, than piece-meal and in stages, later. I don't have a HF-type trailer, as I said, but I've examined them at stores...they don't seem constructed as strongly as I have retro-built mine to be, and certainly their axles/hubs/bearings are not as heavy-duty as the Dexter axle I now use. I think you'd be better served to just overbuild now, and be ready for the fire roads later, than struggle matching parts here-and-there, to eventually gain the capability to go off-road in the future. Hindsight taught me that I should've built mine as first envisioned, and not to continually regret the lack of trailer capability resulting from trying to save money (at that time).
Last edited by working on it on Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring:
    • 3500 lb Dexter axle,
    • 27x8.5-14LT tires,
    • LED lighting,
    • A/C & heat,Optima AGM battery,
    • extended-run 2500w generator,
    • Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern
  • 147697148333125895
  • 148599148106
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby QueticoBill » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:53 pm

New axle, hubs, and new fenders, along with wheels and tires. Measure spring centers and call etrailer.
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby TPATT88 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:11 pm

Thanks for all of the input guys! I will likely go straight for the upgraded axle/suspension setup rather than go with trial and error to see what fits. I'm a novice to th max here but I'd imagine the wider axle that has the right sized hub with a beefier rating and suspension is the smart and safe way as well.

Tim
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby kramergwt » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:10 am

Looks like those fenders are too big for the existing wheels. Might be able to get by with them. I am also going with new wheels (smoothie rims and white walls for looks and more ground clearance) and have to get a new axle/hub setup.


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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby working on it » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:57 am

kramergwt wrote:Looks like those fenders are too big for the existing wheels. Might be able to get by with them.
  • Actually, those fenders might be just right for the trailer, after larger wheels and tires are installed. His current wheels are too small, but his proposed changes will match up to the fenders afterwards, so the fenders might just be fine, as they are.
  • The OP wants to use matching 17" wheels/tires like his Toyota has, and they will need the width of fender as shown in the picture. Of course, if he upgrades to a larger axle/spring set-up, and needs off-road capability, then the clearance under the fender will have to increase, for wheel travel, up and down, over terrain. When the new axle is set-up, having the axle under the springs will raise the height just enough to utilize the larger wheels, level the trailer to match the hitch height, and the taller/wider tire will fill the fender profile better. IMHO
  • 12 inch vs 17 inch tires.png
    12 inch vs 17 inch tires.png (577.8 KiB) Viewed 495 times
    an accurate scaling comparison
  • 2013 HHRv,"squareback/simple" TTT, semi-offroad? 4x8, 2000+ lbs travel weight
  • featuring:
    • 3500 lb Dexter axle,
    • 27x8.5-14LT tires,
    • LED lighting,
    • A/C & heat,Optima AGM battery,
    • extended-run 2500w generator,
    • Coleman dual-fuel stove & lantern
  • 147697148333125895
  • 148599148106
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby Padilen » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:03 pm

I was trying to talk OP out of doing it. The work and cost is too high. And since I don't know what the frame rails are the mod may not even work. As heavier springs may be wider than frame. Those tires and mods will weight a lot more too. The added stress just from mods plus rough road use. I wouldn't feel the frame could handle it,not something I'd feel safe with.
But if OP is going to do it, please do it right.


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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby Dale M. » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:29 am

Padilen wrote:I was trying to talk OP out of doing it. The work and cost is too high. And since I don't know what the frame rails are the mod may not even work. As heavier springs may be wider than frame. Those tires and mods will weight a lot more too. The added stress just from mods plus rough road use. I wouldn't feel the frame could handle it,not something I'd feel safe with.
But if OP is going to do it, please do it right.


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IF OP is will to do the mods, everything is on the table for mods, axle width, either by custom made width or lucking out with over the counter one, location of perches on frame and axle.... It's a total fabrication project... Nothing is too wide or too narrow, too big or too small... One does whatever necessary to achieve desired outcome...

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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby Padilen » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:22 am

I usually mod everything. But cost and safety are always a part of what I do. But sometimes it's necessary to have a stop button. My stop button sometimes gets activated by someone else's common sense.

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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby dkcaroline » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:22 pm

Hi all,

I'll introduce myself better on the intro page, but I am tpatts mom and wanted to ask those who replied a couple of questions. A bit of back story, we were talking teardrops while on a road trip. While I was researching trailer to build on, he found one almost ready to roll. I found my trailer too but that is for a different thread.

This trailer may have come from TSC or HF but also looks to have had some added bracing done and welded. I stopped by the local HF HQ and checked out their trailer and this one is welded and not just bolted together.

Are there photos we can take of the frame that would help with ideas on upping tire size? Or is there a "common" larger tire/ axle used on this class of trailer?

Thank you in advance
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby KTM_Guy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:23 am

dkcaroline wrote:Hi all,

I'll introduce myself better on the intro page, but I am tpatts mom and wanted to ask those who replied a couple of questions. A bit of back story, we were talking teardrops while on a road trip. While I was researching trailer to build on, he found one almost ready to roll. I found my trailer too but that is for a different thread.

This trailer may have come from TSC or HF but also looks to have had some added bracing done and welded. I stopped by the local HF HQ and checked out their trailer and this one is welded and not just bolted together.

Are there photos we can take of the frame that would help with ideas on upping tire size? Or is there a "common" larger tire/ axle used on this class of trailer?

Thank you in advance


The problem is trailer axles use trailer wheels and car/truck wheels use axles for them. Look at the center of your trailer and 4 Runner wheels. See the part the sticks out on the trailer? You don't see that on a car wheel. That is where the problem comes in. The hole in the center of an auto wheel is to small for the spindle of a trailer hub. Sure you can drill out the wheel to fit the spindle but that would not be good if you need to mount on the 4 runner which is what you want to do.

I would say call eTrailers tell them what you need to do, they should be able to help. But most likely you want to find an adapter that fits your 6 bolt Pattern and then look for a hub that fits that then the correct axle for that. Then if you are not up to doing the mod take all that info to a trailer repair or welding shop and ask for their advice.

Keep in mind you say easy forest roads. A lot of easy forest roads get heavy use which makes washboards. Washboards are very hard on axle parts especially the little axle you have. Ideal would be 3500# hubs and spindles with 1200-1500# springs.

Also when you rotate your 4 runner tires add the camper tires into the rotation. Then you get even wear on all tires.

Good luck.
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Re: Switch to Toyota spec hubs

Postby TPATT88 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:29 am

Thanks again for the replies guys (and Mom! LOL)

I hear the concern from everyone. I will probably start with a call to eTrailer to see their thoughts. Bottom line however is I am willing to go spend a little money to make this trailer work for my family and the type of camping we do.

Ideally I'd like to go with that matching look to the 4Runner (not to mention the tires are tough and it would lift it plenty), but at the very least I need to get some larger non bike sized tires on this thing. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking it down a gravel road right now and that has to change. We don't plan on rolling into a KOA and setting out our flamingos and satellite dish. We want to use our new toy to get a little bit off the grid sometimes.

Tim
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