Compact III -- New Modification w/ front galley

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Compact III -- New Modification w/ front galley

Postby myoung » Sun Aug 15, 2010 1:45 am

In my introductory posting, I included a modified floor plan of the Compact III. Now, I have revised that too and have flipped the galley from the rear to the front. I think this is an improvement but time and perhaps a few insightful comments from Forum members will trigger yet another rethinking.

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Naturally, all comments are more than welcome.
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Postby rxc463 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:56 am

I like it :thumbsup: That's a lot of living in a tiny space.
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Postby reo-ron » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:19 pm

I have an orig Compact ll and I really like the rear door! If you square up the rear and put the door there, you could put some slope on the front to aid in wind drag. It's also nice to stand in the open doorway when cooking or just reach into the cooler/ice box for a cold one.
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Postby myoung » Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:28 pm

reo-ron wrote:I have an orig Compact ll and I really like the rear door! If you square up the rear and put the door there, you could put some slope on the front to aid in wind drag. It's also nice to stand in the open doorway when cooking or just reach into the cooler/ice box for a cold one.
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All good suggestions, Ron. I guess I'm just more used to side doors like on my old VW Westfalia and on our current Airstream. I also want to minimize partitions and upper cabinets. There won't be any upper cabinets, in fact, and I will shorten the two partitions at either end of the kitchen counter.

I'm not concerned about the wind resistance. I'm used to towing a 6,000+ pound Airstream that is full height and 8.5 feet wide. Not a problem at the speeds I generally travel at, mostly under 65 mph. Being retired, I'm enjoying the travel and don't have any reason to speed along.

I'm looking for maximum height of less than 83 inches to be able to store the trailer in our single-car garage. I've made some preliminary calculations and find that I can add 2 inches to the Compact III design height and still have several inches to spare.

Have you pictures of your Compact II? Inquiring minds want to know.
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My trailer is currently being offered for sale for a new reduced price of $7,900. The build thread has all the details of its design and construction. PM me for details, if you have additional questions.
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Floor insulation -- yeah or nay?

Postby myoung » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:22 am

In working on more refinements, I've looked more closely at the details in Andrew's excellent drawings. There is much for me to learn here.

I was a bit surprised to see that no floor insulation is specified, so I took a crack at adding some. In the first sketch below, I add a layer to the underside of the 3/4-inch plywood floor. To keep the edges from being exposed, I also added 1 x 2 inch furring all around the perimeter.

I thought that this would have the added beneficial effect of stiffening the floor. Having never build a trailer before, I'm a bit concerned about the strength and rigidity of the plywood floor that extends beyond the frame on both sides by about a foot. Is this concern warranted, or is the heft of plywood sufficient to carry the weight without flexing?

So here is my first detail showing an insulated floor and perimeter furring.
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The insulation would add minimal weight but the furring strips and their fasteners would add some. But, is this extra work worth it? I seldom camp in very cold weather. In nearly 5 years in the Airstream, we only camped twice in temps below freezing and if we ever intend to camp in very cold weather again, I'd much rather be in the Airstream with its thick walls, insulated vinyl walls, and good gas heater. So, maybe I don't need the insulation in a small volume TTT.

A small ceramic heater running of 110 volts, keeps the much larger Airstream interior quite toasty, so having one in the TTT when hooked to shore power should be sufficient. I think I'll plumb and wire for a small Atwood gas heater that I could add later. So, back to the drawing board for a detail without floor insulation.

Unless someone persuades me otherwise, I'll build it like this.
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As always, any critiques or suggestions are most welcome.
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Postby bobhenry » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:59 am

Mike can I offer a 3rd option

Image

Pardon my poor edit of your picture but a sandwich floor would offer protection for your insulation. I used this method on both the teardrop and the barn and I am glad I did. Insulation is not just for cold weather it helps keep the cool IN as well should you decide to air condition the unit later.
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Postby myoung » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:14 am

Bob,

Thanks for the suggestion. I've been trying to maximize the interior height consistent with keeping the maximum height below 83 inches so that I can store the trailer in our garage. Adding another inch on the interior probably is more than offset by the extra comfort of an insulated floor.

Another possibility, would be to insulate underneath the settees/bed, cabinets, and hanging locker since all these areas would have the 1-inch furring in the ordinary course of construction. Then I could use a very thin upper layer of say 1/8-inch plywood. I'd still have the interior height that I plan but would gain insulation on about half of the floor mostly on the perimeter. Every little bit helps.

BTW, I expect to put a 15-gallon grey water holding tank between the longitudinal frame members up in front (beneath the galley floor). At 30 x 30 inches, this tank would cover almost the entire galley floor from below. Not really insulation, but every layer of low thermal conductive material helps.

Lastly, I was thinking of tiling the floor with cork, which is easy under foot and probably is a poor thermal conductor.

I doubt that I will add A/C. We've lived in AZ for three years now and I am quite comfortable with heat. Odd, but true.
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Styling study

Postby myoung » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:39 pm

Here's a drawing that I'm using to play with exterior styling. It's easy to change the colors and resize and move around objects like windows at this stage.

I'm considering adding lower and beltline trim with 4-inch wide panels of diamond pattern tread material and trimming the wall and roof corners with 1.5 inch angle diamond pattern tread. It seems to dress things up a bit and might be a nice complement to grey or silver exterior paint, perhaps accented as this drawing shows with something like a teal or silvery light green, which might look a little better to my eye.

I'm sure that once I see the real thing full size, my ideas might be revised further, but it's fun to play around like this now.

I've enlarged the windows as much as I can on this side and will hope to put another one on the rear and one of the same size on the street side. I still don't know whether I will have one in the front. It depends upon how safe I think it will be from flying objects. If I do put a window in front, I'd rather not have the rock shield like on our Airstream front window because I don't like the bother having to open it from the outside.

I've also modified the front compared to Andrew's Compact III with only one beveled surface. I don't see any significant aerodynamic benefit to the lower bevel and not having one there simplifies construction, allows for better attachment of the tongue box that will house the gas bottle and AGM battery, makes for more useable space in the galley and toilet area, and lets me create a counter depth in front identical to the one on the street side of the L-shaped galley.

I still have to do calculations for axle placement but am pretty confident that the move forward from Andrew's plan is warranted because I have swapped some of the heavy items in the galley and head from the rear to the front. There really shouldn't be much weight aft of the axle. Also, our Dodge TV can easily handle a heavy tongue weight. Our Airstream has a tongue weight of about 900 pounds, for example, so this shouldn't be an area of much concern for axle placement if Andrew or anyone else advises me to move it back.

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Postby Cliffmeister2000 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:48 pm

I don't mean to be picky, but I think you have your street / curb labels backwards, if the drawing is facing forward? :thinking:
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Postby myoung » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:23 am

Cliffmeister2000 wrote:I don't mean to be picky, but I think you have your street / curb labels backwards, if the drawing is facing forward? :thinking:


I believe that I've got the street side correct. In the floor plan, the section sketch, and the styling drawing, the front of the trailer are to the right as you view them. that would put the door and the double window side on the curb and the single window that I mention on the street side. Also, the L-shaped galley has the stove on the street side and the sink on the front side.

Now does it make sense? ;)
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Re: Floor insulation -- yeah or nay?

Postby Cliffmeister2000 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:04 am

myoung wrote:
Image



I'm sure it's me, and not you, so help me out, please.

If I'm looking at the front of the trailer, which is parked on the right side of the street, then the curb side would be to my left, and the street side would be to my right?
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Re: Floor insulation -- yeah or nay?

Postby starleen2 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:12 am

Image


I'm not sure that you need the 1X2 furring strip. The screws coming up from the floor into the 3/4 inch side wall are sufficient enough - especially if you use adhesive on the edges. I have built three campers this way and never had a problem with the walls detaching from the floor
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Re: Floor insulation -- yeah or nay?

Postby bobhenry » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:19 am

Cliffmeister2000 wrote:
myoung wrote:
Image



I'm sure it's me, and not you, so help me out, please.

If I'm looking at the front of the trailer, which is parked on the right side of the street, then the curb side would be to my left, and the street side would be to my right?


Cliff :

We are looking at the rear ! The center tube runs the full length of the trailer which I really like. It threw me for a loop also. I thought I was looking at the tongue but it has to be a rear view for the curb and street side to be correct as stated !
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The orientation grid...

Postby myoung » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:24 am

Cliff,

Oh, I thought you were referring to the text that accompanied my style study post.

The cross section of the floor, wall, and longitudinal frame could actually be viewed looking thru the trailer either toward the front, in which case the wall would be on the right or curb side as I showed, or toward the rear, in which case the wall would also be on the right side but that would be the street side too.

Isn't our English language a wonderful thing? Just when you think you have been as clear as you possibly could be, someone comes along and offers an alternative interpretation.

I have seen others put these orientation grids on drawings to help the user visualize the objects more clearly. Now I see that in this particular case it doesn't matter whether you look fore or aft. The result would be the same.

I should have followed the dictum of Edward Tufte about displaying charts or graphs: Maximize the signal-to-noise ratio. I should only include information that is necessary to convey the idea and nothing more. William of Ockham also had something to say about this centuries ago.

So, I will remove the orientation grid from this sketch going forward and will only put it in if it adds to the information content/signal.
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Re: Floor insulation -- yeah or nay?

Postby myoung » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:41 am

starleen2 wrote:
Image


I'm not sure that you need the 1X2 furring strip. The screws coming up from the floor into the 3/4 inch side wall are sufficient enough - especially if you use adhesive on the edges. I have built three campers this way and never had a problem with the walls detaching from the floor


I was thinking that the 1x2 furring strip on the bottom would have the beneficial effect of increasing floor stiffness at the perimeter. But, now I realize that the bonding of the side walls to the floor has the same effect and probably doesn't need to be reinforced.

Also, I might change the interior 1x2 used as backing for the sidewalls as well as anchors for interior cabinetry to just 1x1. Does that seem sufficient?
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My trailer is currently being offered for sale for a new reduced price of $7,900. The build thread has all the details of its design and construction. PM me for details, if you have additional questions.
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