#1

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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#1

Postby ghcoe » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:19 pm

Well it is hard to believe that it has been 5 years since I started this project. What a exciting time I had in overcoming different issues with working with foam. In hindsight I realize that I did take on a large project right out of the gate. Even though it came out just the way I wanted, it was a challenge at some points to figure out how I was going to do it. Somethings worked out great, some not so great and some I had to start from the beginning again. Thanks to all that help with this endeavor :thumbsup: .

I thought that since this build will be read by many in the future that I should point out some things about this build/thread.
-First I would suggest reading through this entire build thread. Like I said, somethings worked, some not so great and some I had to start from the beginning again. Of course you won't know that unless you read the whole thing.

-Next I would like to add that the flashing is working as planned, but I think for future builds I will add the flashing to the outside of the canvas if needed. I have found with my second build that the corners are quite solid if you use liberal full strength TBII in the corner edging. By not adding flashing to the body before canvasing it saves time and effort by not having to fair in the flashing with spackle. If done right I think it will look just fine on the outside and can be used only in areas that many have a need for more protection.

-Expansion rate of foam needs to be addressed. Foam tends to have a high expansion rate compared to other materials in the build. In most cases in this build it is just cosmetic. The biggest problem I have is the drivers side door. I made my measurements for door size in the morning and allowed 1/4" clearance. I installed the door in the morning a few days later and all was good. Then I tried to open the door in the afternoon and the door was hitting the frame. Passenger side door is fine, but I remembered I made my measurements in the afternoon on that side when the foam had already heated up. This was my first indication of the expansion issue. I then noticed where I had to spliced the flashing on roof it was buckling and causing the canvas to buldge out when cold, it is fine when hot. Next was the front wall. Near the bottom, where the floor has another expansion rate, it tends to show the glue line between the side walls and the front wall. Since the side walls cant flex due to being glued to the floor the expansion and contraction of the front wall is noticeable along the front lower portion of the walls. This problem will probably be noticeable on most builds. To hide this on my second build I rapped the corners 2". This puts the corner cut line right on the foam to foam glue line and disguises any expansion issues.

-If you live in the Pacific North West I recommend the Bi-Mart utility trailer over the Harbor Freight Trailer. The biggest thing I like is that it is painted black. The hubs/bearings come pre-lubed with real grease, Bolts are SAE and it comes with a 2" hitch ball.

-First camping experience was great. Towed beautifully at 80mph. No bouncing, or swaying at all. I was running a tire pressure of 25psi to allow a bit better cushion on bumps, seemed to work just fine. I checked tire and hub temps at each stop.

-I have now built my second trailer, some details here viewtopic.php?f=55&t=65033. This is a much simpler design and I was able to put it together in 50 hours. Materials cost was $1200.00. I am building a DIY YouTube Channel where I plan to do step by step tutorials videos on how you can build your own foamie. I tried to keep this trailer as simple as possible so anybody could build one with simple tools. Yes it is a box, but it is simple to get you started. My long term plans with the channel is to show how to install accessories, design modifications (for more experienced builders), and building other trailer designs in the future. How much would you pay for trailer designs? Yes there are some free online designs and then I have seen some designs as much as $200.00. My YouTube Channel is free! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTl7ZokgbuM . Please though consider supporting the channel through Patreon for as little as a $1 a month. This will help me get things moving faster and show me that there are people watching and wanting more content. There are Patreon links in the video descriptions. See you on the road, George.





Ok, so I have been wanting to build a TD for about 12 years now. I was looking at small manufacturing and even had a good friend that was interested to go in with me, even made some templates. Well things fell through and he moved farther away and life happened. I am still interested in building one to use behind my small car and if things work out maybe to sell a few.

As time has gone by my design ideas fell away from the TD and went more to the practical (at least in my own opinion) box type construction. It seems you just get more use out of the small foot print. Plus you get a more practical roof line to add a rack too for bikes, kayaks, and such. I really like the Grasshopper for these reasons. In my thinking I wanted to make it simple to build, just in case I would have a need to build more, and practical, so everyone would want one.

My biggest worry when thinking about a trailer build was water. I know how wicked water can be. When I saw these build ideas here I knew then that this was for me. I love foam, I have built a few foam RC planes and I loved working with it. I did own a motor home once that was built using a very similar construction and I remember then thinking what a great idea. I do not know why I did not put the two together to make a trailer. It's so simple...

I had to modify my plans some to make it work with foam. I know that there will be some unforeseen design problems, but that can be dealt with as they come up.
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Last edited by ghcoe on Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 5 times in total.
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: #1

Postby KCStudly » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:06 pm

I like the profile and the extra fold down counter extension is a very good idea.

Not sure I understand the way you plan to seal the overlap between the apparent hatch side skirts and the exposed shelf ends (?), but I am a big fan of triangulation so if having an extra deep hatch side "rib" is the idea, I get it.

The skirting below the trailer frame really adds to the profile and won't hurt ground clearance for most all but severe situations.

Looks like a great plan. :thumbsup: Looking forward to your progress. Do you have any idea of what trailer you plan to use?

From your comments in my build thread, I assume that your kayak rack will clear the hatch when raised. One way of dealing with hatch to head clearance is to build up. More ground clearance and bigger tires/suspension; get you into more places for kayaking... though at the expense of aero drag if your TV is smaller. Can't recall you mentioning what your TV is?

:wine:
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Re: #1

Postby KCStudly » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:20 pm

Which way do you plan to sleep? With the door(s) and low cabinets/shelves both at the front you may end up with a head knocker situation.

When I laid out my profile I measured from my seat to my head (I'm taller than the wife) and placed my door appropriately for sitting in and swinging my knees up and in (nice wide door), then I drew in an arc that represented my arse as a pivot/center point so that I would not hit my head on any of the cabinets while going from sitting to laying, to trying to put my socks on while doing a crunch and touching my toes while sitting on the mattress. Sorry, I don't seem to have an image of that in my gallery.

Still, it looks good. I like. :thumbsup:
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: #1

Postby atahoekid » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:03 am

That looks like a great plan!! I agree with KC about watching your head room but some of these things work out when you're building. Foam is a great material and lends itself to different building ideas. Make sure you include pics as you progress. :pictures: :pictures: We love it!!
Mel

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Re: #1

Postby ghcoe » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:33 am

KCStudly wrote:Not sure I understand the way you plan to seal the overlap between the apparent hatch side skirts and the exposed shelf ends (?), but I am a big fan of triangulation so if having an extra deep hatch side "rib" is the idea, I get it.


So the idea is that would be the side wall cut at that angle and then a inner wall will be built to the same outer profile. On the top there will be a inner roof line just below the existing roof line that will have grooves cut to go from side to side for water to drain out, if it should get past the seals. Not sure how to really explain this so hope it makes some sense.

KCStudly wrote:Do you have any idea of what trailer you plan to use?


Planning on a HF trailer. Just can not beat the price.

KCStudly wrote:From your comments in my build thread, I assume that your kayak rack will clear the hatch when raised.


Yes I have a plan. Not sure if it will work yet. The idea is to use 2" PVC and go from the floor and out through the roof. The supports would come up just in front of the side door and between the hatch and the bulkhead in back. The PVC may be used as a duct work to for a positive pressure system and maybe cooling too.

KCStudly wrote:Can't recall you mentioning what your TV is?:wine:


1975 Opel Ascona (1900 in the States)
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George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: #1

Postby ghcoe » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:46 am

KCStudly wrote:Which way do you plan to sleep?


Originally I was planning to make the shelves on the bulk head. I got to thinking that I did not like the curve above my head in case I wanted to sit up to read. I thought that the curve would be just about where my head would be and make it a bit uncomfy. So, I moved the shelves to the front and now my head will have a nice flat wall to lay against. :)

This build is based on a 5'x8' floor with 4' high sides.
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: #1

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:58 am

When I stayed in NZ in '82 the international version of the Ford Escort was the hot rally car. Your Opel looks very similar. Funny how it took so long for the "Tuner Car" movement to get traction here in the states, but then again we can't really appreciate how much fuel costs in other countries.

In '82 gas was over $5/gal in N-Zed and most families only had one car. We gripe even now when it goes over $4/gal.

Thanks for the pic and reply.
Last edited by KCStudly on Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: #1

Postby mezmo » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:57 am

This'll be another good one to watch !
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Re: #1

Postby ghcoe » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:56 am

KCStudly wrote:Not sure I understand the way you plan to seal the overlap between the apparent hatch side skirts and the exposed shelf ends (?), but I am a big fan of triangulation so if having an extra deep hatch side "rib" is the idea, I get it.


So I am in the process of building a scale model to help sort things out before the "Big Project". I just finished the hatch this morning so I though that I would post this picture to illustrate better how the hatch will be close and seal. Not shown is the sub roof that would run just under the hatch and would extend to just before the radius. It will have grooves in it to allow water that may get past the roof seal to flow to one side or the other and then along the hatch and out the bottom. I am planning on using just a high density foam seal along the outer edges of the hatch. I would have no hurricane hinge on the top, probably 3 or 4 marine style hinges. Hope this clears things up a bit. This is one of the reasons I liked the hatch better. It seemed to be a stronger build and a tighter seal. I could also run a secondary seal alone the inner wall too. I get on some awfully dusty trails here in Idaho and I hate dust in my stuff. That is why I am planning on installing a positive pressure system too....
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George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: #1

Postby GPW » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:30 pm

NICE model !!!! :thumbsup: 8) No surprises that way later on ... ;)
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Re: #1

Postby S. Heisley » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:14 pm

:thumbsup: ...What GPW said. :thumbsup: It looks like a great plan! Good luck on your build.
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Re: #1

Postby ghcoe » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:23 pm

Thanks.
The nice thing about the foam I am using is with the 1 inch = 1 foot scale I am working with it is about 2 inches thick scaled. :)

I have completed the galley and it is drying right now. Once it is dried I will post another picture. Almost as good as the real thing.....
George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: #1

Postby atahoekid » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:43 pm

It's a good idea to build a model. Helps give you an idea of how the parts go together and some of the issues you may encounter. I like how your rear hatch fits together. Good work!
Mel

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Re: #1

Postby ghcoe » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:57 pm

Glue has dried so here is a better shot of how the hatch will close and the sub roof. The sub roof would have a channel or two to shed water to either side of the hatch, if any water should get past the seal. Also, when the hatch is up it will divert water since there will not be a continuous hinge.
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George.

Gorrilla Glue, Great Stuff and Gripper. The three G's of foamie construction.

My build viewtopic.php?t=54099
Working with flashing for foamie construction viewtopic.php?f=55&t=60303
Making a hot wire http://tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=55323
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Re: #1

Postby GPW » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:06 am

Looks GOOD to me ... :thumbsup:
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