Comparing weights of building methods.

[GTS225-TNT]

As a bit of a sidebar to this subject, I've wondered a few times how something like this might turn out in the weight department.
https://www.equipmentfacts.com/listings ... 1586475144

This one happens to be 1000 gallons, but I've seen a 1600 up close, and it seems to me that it would lend itself quite well to a somewhat roomy camper shell. One would surely not need the running gear or pump systems, as it would never be carrying the weight of the fluid again.
Pros; Ready-made top opening for a vent fan.
Weatherproof.
(Probably) paintable.
Almost critter-proof. Even bears would have a hard time getting in.
The design of the understructure lends itself well to an internal floor install.

Cons; One would have to learn plastics welding in order to install a door.
No insulating value to the material.
One would almost have to paint it to keep from being disturbed at night by vehicle lighting.
Rounded walls won't help for internal finishing.
Material probably can't be glued to. (I suspect HDPE)

Buying one new would be prohibitively expensive, but if a guy could pick up a leaker on the cheap.......
Still.....so much is already done for a builder.

Just my thoughts.....Roger

 

[John61CT-TNT]

Wow, could not be farther off topic IMO. . .

Sure, if the plastic bit was magically levitated behind your little TV, that would (maybe?) be light!

Or, do you mean sell off the trailer and start from scratch building a light chassis frame?

Because your proposed frame having been designed to carry 9-14,000 lbs

has to itself weigh a minimum of 1500-2500 lbs!

Not to mention, would you actually **want** to live in a plastic tube? For me, only for a couple nights, even if desperately homeless seeking overnight shelter from a storm.

 

[twisted lines]

I have personally been in tanks like that only a different color; The lids suck, Very narrow between ribs at the bottom, wall’s are thick and move a lot with temperature, The bigger one my be different.
You could possibly bolt or rivet to the end for a door there pretty darn tough.

 

[Tom&Shelly]

As a bit of a sidebar to this subject, I've wondered a few times how something like this might turn out in the weight department.
https://www.equipmentfacts.com/listings ... 1586475144

Boy! I wouldn't even consider getting in one of those if there's any chance at all it ever carried anything but water. Even with adequate ventilation, I can imagine what vapors from residual insecticides/herbicides/etc. might do

Tom

 

[olddawgsrule]

Sure using a bedsheet and 15 lbs a gallon of house paint might be lighter but it would be very easily damaged as well as not strong enough for more than a 4x8 teardrop that never sees anything rougher than a pot hole.

Having no idea what John said vs, your quotes.. I do take offense to a PMF foamie not being able to withstand more than a pothole. My first was my sleeper cap for my 4x4 truck. Far lighter than the short cap I had on it (I alone could handle it) and survived very well wheeling through the woods in New England (scraping trees and bouncing over rock trails).

Now the new build (fiberglass over) is just as stronger!

Don't underestimate foamie! As strong as a 'stick built' with aluminum over, of course not. Kinda like a Cement structure being stronger than a wood structure. Each has there place..

 

[olddawgsrule]

As a bit of a sidebar to this subject, I've wondered a few times how something like this might turn out in the weight department.
https://www.equipmentfacts.com/listings ... 1586475144

Just my thoughts.....Roger

I see many possibilities with that! How cool!

 

[saltydawg-TNT]

I do take offense to a PMF foamie not being able to withstand more than a pothole... Each has their place.

I understand but it you look back I said anything over a teardrop and using a bedsheet, not canvas,. And your current build is bigger that a teardrop, but its also not on a trailer. Would you try to make a 12 foot long body with 5.5 inside width and almost 5.5 inside height out of foam and pmf? It certainly has its uses, esp PMF, which would be my third preferred skin after premade skins and fiberglass. Heck I like the foamy idea as it cant rot. Mine is a "foamy" with a premade fiberglass skin.

What I meant is I dont think it could handle larger size trailers ie over 10 to 12 feet long 6 feet high and wide, twisting and turning down really rutted roads. It does have an advantage on those roads for smaller trailers, very little weight and moment of inertia.

 

[Squigie]

I think RJ finally worded things in a way that may change how I look at foamie construction.
I'm going to have to think about it a bit.
I may actually view foam as weaker, now, than I did previously.

As a bit of a sidebar to this subject, I've wondered a few times how something like this might turn out in the weight department.
https://www.equipmentfacts.com/listings ... 1586475144

This one happens to be 1000 gallons, but I've seen a 1600 up close, and it seems to me that it would lend itself quite well to a somewhat roomy camper shell. One would surely not need the running gear or pump systems, as it would never be carrying the weight of the fluid again.
Pros; Ready-made top opening for a vent fan.
Weatherproof.
(Probably) paintable.
Almost critter-proof. Even bears would have a hard time getting in.
The design of the understructure lends itself well to an internal floor install.

Cons; One would have to learn plastics welding in order to install a door.
No insulating value to the material.
One would almost have to paint it to keep from being disturbed at night by vehicle lighting.
Rounded walls won't help for internal finishing.
Material probably can't be glued to. (I suspect HDPE)

Buying one new would be prohibitively expensive, but if a guy could pick up a leaker on the cheap.......
Still.....so much is already done for a builder.

Just my thoughts.....Roger

Many are polyethylene.
The useful type and range of tanks, in my opinion, would be about 750-1,000 gallon box tanks or "low profile" tanks. They're not as thick or heavy as the bigger tanks. Roughly the size of a TD and usually about 300-600 lbs.

But, like most people, I have no interest in sleeping in a tank, or modifying one.

Water tank cages might be of interest to some people, as pre-fab frame 'legos'. But it's questionable for weight. If you stick three cages together for a ~4.5x4x9' or ~4x4.5x9' box to be insulated and skinned, you'd be looking at around 320 lbs for just the frame, not including a floor; or about 430-450 lbs if the cut out sides are repurposed as the floor.
They are cheap, though. When sold off by commercial operations, they're usually available for $15-30 each, or even straight scrap price.

 

[saltydawg-TNT]

I think RJ finally worded things in a way that may change how I look at foamie construction.
I'm going to have to think about it a bit.
I may actually view foam as weaker, now, than I did previously.

Foam in its self is weak, even the 25 psi dow foam in my trailer. What gives it strength is the sandwich of the skins with the foam. When trying to bend the "sandwich" the outer skin is in tension, the inner is in compression, the foam is in compression all the way thru. PMF and fiberglass are both pretty dang strong in in tension, edge to fiberglass on that one. On the compression side, hand laid glass if just one layer of say 6 oz is probably about the same as 10 oz canvas PMF, the slight edge going to the epoxy being stronger than the paint on the canvas ( IMO ). now using a bed sheet under compression I bet its significantly weaker.

Now as soon as we step it up to something like the .055 thick fiberglass skin with gelcoat that I used for my skins, I would bet they are many times stronger under compression that 10oz canvas. Same if you did 2 layers of canvas it would be much stronger than 1 layer.

The real issue come in is the foam. The normal home depot stuff is 10 psi, that means the foam can support 10 psi and not dent or compress, I used 25 psi, thats 2 and a half times stronger. And I think the isocyanurate foam is even less than the 10 psi and more brittle.

 

[dogcatcher-TNT]

Today I can get a brand new 1500 gallon poly water tank for $750, weighs 210 pounds. It is close to 8 foot in diameter and 64 inches high. Cut a door, 2 window openings and enclose them for $250. I know, I have a 5 year old deer blind that is made like that. 2 of us loaded on a trailer along with camping gear and the first night at deer camp it rained, so we opted to sleep in the water tank/deer blind. Dry, warm and comfortable. It has also been through several West Texas hail storms, without a dent, not to mention 5 years of sun, cold, and all kinds of weather.

Granted, it is not a tear drop, and it does NOT LOOK LIKE travel trailer, but it would work, looks "cool" and you could be the talk of the camp grounds. 200 cubic foot, about the same as an 6x8x4 trailer.

https://www.plastic-mart.com/product/11 ... 9UQAvD_BwE

 

[GPW]

The first Foamie we can recall is one made by Glassice ~ 2005 (?) , and it was Fiberglass covered … And although his English wasn’t that great, he really got the message across how much a PIA putting fiberglass over foam really is ( finishing especially ) … And I don’t believe he ever got it finished … AFAIK, he just stopped posting …

And then the Original Idea of a Foamie ( as proposed here ) was NEVER intended to replace the well established TD building methods we all know and follow . It gave us a Thrifty and Light alternative to what was available at the time … Simply put , a “Hard Tent” … One that anyone could build at home with common tools , and materials … and not for a lot of money if sensible “salvage” principles were followed . ( as explained in ” Thrifty Alternatives” , the thread that most have deemed too long to read … )

So Naturally Foamies are not for Everyone … But for some people they work just fine …

IT’s ALL YOUR CHOICE the way you want to build your trailer , nobody is saying one way is better than the other , because that is subjective to the individual … Build what YOU want to … and what you need !

 

[GTS225-TNT]

See.......Now this is the kind of response I was hoping for. Someone that had info about the weight of a poly tank. The style of tank he referenced wouldn't lend itself well to trailer it long distances, but the principal is still there. (The OP was, after all, talking about weight of building techniques.)
The vertical tank he referenced works well for what he used it for. Do the build, haul it where you want it for the season, and haul it back out. What we're looking for here is a permanently trailer mounted compartment that can be modified as a temporary shelter and sleeping quarters that is relatively light in weight. A horizontally configured agricultural tank of appropriate size is rot-proof, not quite indestructible, and depending on material, can be modified to fill the requirements quite nicely.
As I alluded to in my second paragraph in my previous post, yes the original running gear is far too heavy and tall for our needs. I shouldn't have had to specifically point that out to anyone, right along with the need to cleanse a used one of whatever had been in it previously, but apparently my assumptions were incorrect.
Dogcatcher, thank for referencing what you did for your build. It supports my thought processes. Now the only thing holding me back is the expense of one of those horizontal tanks. (I should have stuck around a farm auction two years ago, dangit.)

Roger

Today I can get a brand new 1500 gallon poly water tank for $750, weighs 210 pounds. It is close to 8 foot in diameter and 64 inches high. Cut a door, 2 window openings and enclose them for $250. I know, I have a 5 year old deer blind that is made like that. 2 of us loaded on a trailer along with camping gear and the first night at deer camp it rained, so we opted to sleep in the water tank/deer blind. Dry, warm and comfortable. It has also been through several West Texas hail storms, without a dent, not to mention 5 years of sun, cold, and all kinds of weather.

Granted, it is not a tear drop, and it does NOT LOOK LIKE travel trailer, but it would work, looks "cool" and you could be the talk of the camp grounds. 200 cubic foot, about the same as an 6x8x4 trailer.

https://www.plastic-mart.com/product/11 ... 9UQAvD_BwE

 

[olddawgsrule]

Would you try to make a 12 foot long body with 5.5 inside width and almost 5.5 inside height out of foam and pmf?
What I meant is I dont think it could handle larger size trailers ie over 10 to 12 feet long 6 feet high and wide, twisting and turning down really rutted roads.

Yes, I would with foam and fiberglass, but I do have some engineering/building skills. I have yet another design to work through and actually my first and why I joined here to begin with. Everything I have built has been a learning process to build this! Design will change, but size is totally doable!

 

[aggie79-HILO]

There are many methods/approaches to teardrop and TTT construction. All have merit. As with anything in life, the project build must balance expense, construction time, shop size, tool availability, builder skills, design functionality, design aesthetic, etc.

Although I used somewhat "conventional construction" (insulated floor, insulated plywood skeleton walls, insulated roof, aluminum exterior), I have always admired the lightweight design and aesthetics of Alaska Teardrop's Northern Lite Traveler: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=51991. He used readily available materials. His construction techniques appear to be repeatable by persons with average construction skills. The design can built in a single-car garage with generally basic and/or low-cost tools. The end result is a lightweight, attractive teardrop that is able to be comfortable in and stand up to weather extremes.

 

[saltydawg-TNT]

RJ I like to look of that build, what are your over all dimensions? Also yes I think that would be do able with fiberglass over foam, esp if you put in some minor framing around things like doors and windows to stiffen it up there.

You should look up the lifestyle reconn r2, very similar over all shape.

 

[olddawgsrule]

RJ I like to look of that build, what are your over all dimensions? Also yes I think that would be do able with fiberglass over foam, esp if you put in some minor framing around things like doors and windows to stiffen it up there.

You should look up the lifestyle reconn r2, very similar over all shape.

Works out to 12''-6" long (including rear storage) by 7'-4" wide. I have learned so much from my builds and experimenting that I now see how it can be done. Only wood would be blocking for solid attachments. I see now that the windows (as draw) are not required, as with my truck camper lift roof the material is at chest/eye level and gives a great viewing of outside. I see much of the structural components this time being of fiberglass (possible gel-coat). I have a bit more testing to do before starting into this.

The truck (Overlander) build worked out so good, I'm currently searching for a 2010-12 F350 SD Extended cab to build a true walk through Overlander. The trailer would be to tow behind for a base-camp unit. We love both ways of camping and in each build I love the Foam-built (even if hybrid, as most are) for how light and durable they are.

We each have our ways of doing things.

 

[Ottsville]

One thought about a tank, those things would be like a sauna in sunny conditions.

 

[Newb1-TNT]

Thanks to all that have led me to find more about my original question and the feedback from others.
I cant reply back to everyone individually but I do want to address (GTS225's idea)

"As a bit of a sidebar to this subject, I've wondered a few times how something like this might turn out in the weight department.
https://www.equipmentfacts.com/listings ... 1586475144
This one happens to be 1000 gallons, but I've seen a 1600 up close, and it seems to me that it would lend itself quite well to a somewhat roomy camper shell. One would surely not need the running gear or pump systems, as it would never be carrying the weight of the fluid again."


Thanks to all again for all the help,advise, and other articles and videos links you've sent.

 

[dogcatcher-TNT]

Roger
The horizonal tanks would be better for travel purposes. Split the tank into a Quonset hut look with a flat floor. I see huge steel oil battery tanks turned in to farm shops in the oilfield. The top half of the tank is left in tack, the bottom split and then bent straight so that it looks like an upside down U. Redo both ends of the tank with door and windows then add a floor. This raises the roof a little and allows a solid one piece roof.

 

[GTS225-TNT]

Thanks to all that have led me to find more about my original question and the feedback from others.
I cant reply back to everyone individually but I do want to address (GTS225's idea)

I was REALLY confused at 1st reading this and Ive seen a lot of feed back about it. I THINK maybe he was saying, you could make a mold like these tanks are made, then you'd have a polyethylene tank in the shape of your camper, etc etc etc...
Then again, I could be 100% wrong.

Actually, I was suggesting using one of those tanks, and modifying the design to incorporate a door and windows as desired. Could a person go the route you suggested? Sure, but it would be expensive for a one-off build. It might lend itself well for a production teardrop out of a weatherproof material to start with, but one would still have to build in some internal walls, insulation, door(s) and window(s) as desired.
Would one of those tanks be a teardrop?.....No. However, this board also accepts less-than-teardrop shaped small campers as well, and your initial query was concerning weight of builds, not shapes or materials.

Just offering up an idea from the dark recesses of my shoulder-mounted vacuum chamber.....Roger