Could this be the end of Teardrops and home builds ???

[Shadow Catcher]

Yes the frame on both tears is continuous under the tear, this does point out the finite elastic nature of aluminum. The axle is too far back and the tongue weight is too high, particularly with the extended platform for the tongue box. The water tank and gray water tank are aft of the axle as is the weight of the galley.

 

[philh24]

Shadow Catcher, that is most interesting. I notice that #1, at least, has the drawbar members travelling under the chassis and correctly welded to it at the point of contact. Mine, as you know was severely weakened by passing it through the chassis cutting and slotting both members then compounding the error by very poor blobs of weld.

The thing that strikes me about American chassis in general, and yours in particular, is how far back you place the axles. This makes for greater stability I know but must surely mean that you have to pay very good attention to the strength of the drawbar.

Phil, hardly my place to welcome you aboard because I have only been here 5 minutes myself, but I am pleased to see you.
Before you do another mile my advice would be to pay very close attention to that the junction of the A-frame and the chassis and, if you find that it is the same cut and slot method that you see on mine, get onto them immediately and demand modifications. Let them know that you have seen this on a worldwide forum, it won't do your or my case any harm at all to let them know how widely this is now publicised. If they do agree to mods my advice to you would be to trailer it back to them rather than tow it. Mine went almost without warning, approximately 2 minutes of a slight banging noise (and I only heard that because the radio wasn't on) and then the crash.

Please keep us up to date on their response.

Just as a matter of interest, what date did you collect yours? I picked mine up on the 22nd of April and it snapped in two on the 9th of May. They were informed by me when I got back home on the 11th of May.[/quote
I should have picked it up the week after you informed them but there was a delay perhaps now I no the reason.I actually picked it up on Monday the 20th may. They are still using the slot design by the looks of it but mine is welded all the way around on both sides aswell as behind the cross member where it goes through. There is also a plate behind the cross member which stretches from one side to the other the a frame is also welded to this.
After seeing what happened to you and some good advice from the forum I took it today to have it inspected at a local steel fabricator. He said the welds are all ok and that if anything it had weld overkill for the size of the trailer and weight it was carrying.
I think after you had your problem they must have reviewed there setup,or yours was just not inspected properly by them before you picked it up. The worrying thing is that I ordered mine about 5 weeks before I picked it up and they were flat out making them. Simon told me that there were 2 going out that week and the following week one of which must have been yours. I wonder if there is a recall on the previous sleepers they have done. Mine seems to be ok thanks partly I think to you acting immediately like you did. Did you send them the same photos that are on here.

 

[alaska teardrop]

They are still using the slot design by the looks of it but mine is welded all the way around on both sides aswell as behind the cross member where it goes through. There is also a plate behind the cross member which stretches from one side to the other the a frame is also welded to this.

• Phil, Could you post pictures of this new modification? Welding across the top or down the sides of a channel, tube or angle can create potential fatigue at the critical junction where the tongue meets the front cabin floor/wall.

• See this old thread that discusses this issue: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8851

• Fred

 

[philh24]

They are still using the slot design by the looks of it but mine is welded all the way around on both sides aswell as behind the cross member where it goes through. There is also a plate behind the cross member which stretches from one side to the other the a frame is also welded to this.

• Phil, Could you post pictures of this new modification? Welding across the top or down the sides of a channel, tube or angle can create potential fatigue at the critical junction where the tongue meets the front cabin floor/wall.

• See this old thread that discusses this issue: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8851

• Fred

No problem Fred il do it over the weekend.

 

[Spardo]

Sounds like I sent alarm bells ringing in Leicester then Phil. Yes, all the photos that are on here were sent to them as soon as I took them. That 's what sent them into a spin.

I am looking forward to seeing your photos of their modifications, it will take something really special to persuade me to trust them again though. I am still pressing ahead with legal pressure to try to get them to let me get it sorted here.

 

[philh24]

I think I would be pressing for it to be done there aswell, apart from the work you don't no how long your going to be waiting to get it back. Here are the photo's to compare to yours to see if there has been any mods done.T he plate underneath looks like an afterthought to me. Looks a bit grubby because I have just got back with it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26794158@N05/8925194906/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26794158@N05/8925192360/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26794158@N05/8924576655/
I tried to upload them but it would not let me for some reason most probably to large.

 

[Spardo]

Thanks Phil, most informative, the only difference I can see is the continuous welds around the verticals of the C-section and the rather uninspiring backplate tacked on.

I agree with you, a new chassis here is the way to go.

What are you planning to do? Trust it as it is but keep a close eye or do something else?

 

[alaska teardrop]

• I hope that you can both get a new chassis from another source or your money back. From the pictures that you've both shown, one questions the workmanship of the entire chassis.

• The tongue strength of the channels could be calculated, but I think that they are probably strong enough. Most of the vertical strength is in the vertical side of the channel. IMO, the stress cracks & breaks are caused by welding down the vertical side to begin with.

• Fred

 

[Spardo]

For me Fred, a return of my money is a secondary consideration. The next cheapest model on the market in England or France would cost more in additional cost than my preferred solution of a new chassis here.

That is what I am continuing to press for.

 

[alaska teardrop]

Sounds like France needs a new lightweight teardrop builder, David. Promise me French wine & women and we'll get to work.

 

[Spardo]

Sounds like France needs a new lightweight teardrop builder, David. Promise me French wine & women and we'll get to work.

Just as long as you don't want travel expenses.

 

[philh24]

Thanks Phil, most informative, the only difference I can see is the continuous welds around the verticals of the C-section and the rather uninspiring backplate tacked on.

I agree with you, a new chassis here is the way to go.

What are you planning to do? Trust it as it is but keep a close eye or do something else?

Well I am certainly going to keep an eye on it that's for sure, I have took it up a very bumpy pot holed road yesterday and there has been no movement in any of the welds at all. It's a trust thing David really knowing this happened to you is always in the back of your mind whenever I use it. I think even though I have had it looked at and had confirmation that Alls well I will feel unsure about it for a while. I do hope you get the outcome that you want. They seemed an ok bunch of guys when I went to pick mine up I even met the guy who built it.

 

[Spardo]

Well I am certainly going to keep an eye on it that's for sure, I have took it up a very bumpy pot holed road yesterday and there has been no movement in any of the welds at all. It's a trust thing David really knowing this happened to you is always in the back of your mind whenever I use it. I think even though I have had it looked at and had confirmation that Alls well I will feel unsure about it for a while. I do hope you get the outcome that you want. They seemed an ok bunch of guys when I went to pick mine up I even met the guy who built it.

Yes, but during the couple of hours I waited for it to be completed I heard a sales person on the phone to another customer who had suffered a very late delivery of something which was obviously only the first of a series. The salesman blamed several factors, except himself, and assured the client that further orders would be seen through the whole process from design to production to delivery, by him personally. Fair enough, but this very lengthy conversation, over 15 minutes, was peppered with 'to be completely honest', 'I have to be honest', 'honestly' and other such phrases over and over again which always make me suspicious.

The director also tried to blame me for the delay by arriving unannounced on a Monday afternoon when I had apparently said Tuesday or Wednesday. This despite the fact that when I had queried the late delivery on the phone the previous Thursday I had been assured that it would be completed by 'close of play tomorrow' (Friday).

I too met Gareth, the builder. A very nice man and we chatted at length about all sorts of things while his mate finished off all the polishing and last minute touches. I don't know what his own personal skills were but he did mention that he used to work in another part of the factory and the bloke who built the Teardrops had disappeared one day and never returned. Gareth had been asked to 'fill in' but had been there ever since, many weeks was the impression I got.

Did you witness the lowering of the finished article from the mezzanine where it was built by fork truck with extended forks? My heart was in my mouth as they tilted it onto one fork as it was too long for the section of removed railing. The light cluster missed the stanchion by one millimetre.

All in all a not very professional outfit and I certainly would advise anyone to steer well clear.

 

[philh24]

Well I am certainly going to keep an eye on it that's for sure, I have took it up a very bumpy pot holed road yesterday and there has been no movement in any of the welds at all. It's a trust thing David really knowing this happened to you is always in the back of your mind whenever I use it. I think even though I have had it looked at and had confirmation that Alls well I will feel unsure about it for a while. I do hope you get the outcome that you want. They seemed an ok bunch of guys when I went to pick mine up I even met the guy who built it.

Yes, but during the couple of hours I waited for it to be completed I heard a sales person on the phone to another customer who had suffered a very late delivery of something which was obviously only the first of a series. The salesman blamed several factors, except himself, and assured the client that further orders would be seen through the whole process from design to production to delivery, by him personally. Fair enough, but this very lengthy conversation, over 15 minutes, was peppered with 'to be completely honest', 'I have to be honest', 'honestly' and other such phrases over and over again which always make me suspicious.

The director also tried to blame me for the delay by arriving unannounced on a Monday afternoon when I had apparently said Tuesday or Wednesday. This despite the fact that when I had queried the late delivery on the phone the previous Thursday I had been assured that it would be completed by 'close of play tomorrow' (Friday).

I too met Gareth, the builder. A very nice man and we chatted at length about all sorts of things while his mate finished off all the polishing and last minute touches. I don't know what his own personal skills were but he did mention that he used to work in another part of the factory and the bloke who built the Teardrops had disappeared one day and never returned. Gareth had been asked to 'fill in' but had been there ever since, many weeks was the impression I got.

Did you witness the lowering of the finished article from the mezzanine where it was built by fork truck with extended forks? My heart was in my mouth as they tilted it onto one fork as it was too long for the section of removed railing. The light cluster missed the stanchion by one millimetre.

All in all a not very professional outfit and I certainly would advise anyone to steer well clear.

I must admit I never got any of what you did and it does make you wonder if yours had indeed been finished. I never got past the reception area I was told Friday originally then they phoned me and told me Monday. When I arrived at about 2 it was ready outside they showed me around it took my money and photos of the trike with it on and wished me well and safe trip home. My total time there was about an hour ,listening to the way they get them down off the mezzanine it's a wonder they don't damage more. Have you heard of any other sleepers with the a frame fracture.

 

[Shadow Catcher]

Looking at the weld photos taken by philh24 I have to say that is some of the worst I have seen, weld spatter what appears to be lack of fusion... If it were my trailer I would have some one competent re weld the whole thing. My guess is too high a wire feed. When I had our frame strengthened and some welds repaired I checked in to the certifications of the welder.

 

[Penfold]

I must admit I never got any of what you did and it does make you wonder if yours had indeed been finished. I never got past the reception area I was told Friday originally then they phoned me and told me Monday. When I arrived at about 2 it was ready outside they showed me around it took my money and photos of the trike with it on and wished me well and safe trip home. My total time there was about an hour ,listening to the way they get them down off the mezzanine it's a wonder they don't damage more. Have you heard of any other sleepers with the a frame fracture.

Did either of you receive a certificate of conformity to show it has been type approved or even an IVA certificate?

 

[eamarquardt]

But then folks do love to think they're oppressed, so these horror tales about them banning breathing and such do get passed around.

Andrew

Well here in Simi Valley the city leaders forbade building wooden fences in preference of cinderblock walls that don't survive our frequent earthquakes. After twenty years here both cinderblock and wooden fences require maintenance but the wooden fences are easier to maintain particularly if you use metal fenceposts versus wood. You can't park a car on dirt here either. It's gotta be parked on 4 inches of concrete or 2 inches of asphalt. Everything is brought into the city in trucks but you can't park a truck (semi) in the city overnight and this is a city of 140K with lots of places that are suitable to park semis. We have a federal law that says cities can't forbid you from putting up antennas. So, what the city does is force developers to form Homeowner's Associations and put restrictions on the land deed/title. Because you buy into the restrictions voluntarily they are then legal. But, there are no new homes w/o the restrictions so they aren't quite voluntary if you want a new home. Also the city forces the HOAs to maintain many of the things historically maintained by the city such as streets, medians, and other things. Thus the city spends far less in the new developments but collects just as much (if not more) tax revenue. In effect, double taxation.

I could go on and on. Yes, some of us are feeling a bit oppressed.

Cheers,

Gus

 

[philh24]

I must admit I never got any of what you did and it does make you wonder if yours had indeed been finished. I never got past the reception area I was told Friday originally then they phoned me and told me Monday. When I arrived at about 2 it was ready outside they showed me around it took my money and photos of the trike with it on and wished me well and safe trip home. My total time there was about an hour ,listening to the way they get them down off the mezzanine it's a wonder they don't damage more. Have you heard of any other sleepers with the a frame fracture.

Did either of you receive a certificate of conformity to show it has been type approved or even an IVA certificate?

I recieved a bill of sale and an order confirmation with the chassis number on. There is a vin plate on the chassis with date of manufacture and the unladen weight max weight and who made it. The chassis number is also on there which mine is 000121 so I am presuming they have made 121. I am not sure what number David's is it would be interesting to see how many they have churned out between his and mine.
I would presume David only got the same paperwork as me?

 

[Penfold]

I must admit I never got any of what you did and it does make you wonder if yours had indeed been finished. I never got past the reception area I was told Friday originally then they phoned me and told me Monday. When I arrived at about 2 it was ready outside they showed me around it took my money and photos of the trike with it on and wished me well and safe trip home. My total time there was about an hour ,listening to the way they get them down off the mezzanine it's a wonder they don't damage more. Have you heard of any other sleepers with the a frame fracture.

Did either of you receive a certificate of conformity to show it has been type approved or even an IVA certificate?

I recieved a bill of sale and an order confirmation with the chassis number on. There is a vin plate on the chassis with date of manufacture and the unladen weight max weight and who made it. The chassis number is also on there which mine is 000121 so I am presuming they have made 121. I am not sure what number David's is it would be interesting to see how many they have churned out between his and mine.
I would presume David only got the same paperwork as me?

What was the date of manufacture? If it was after October 2012 and it hasn't been type approved then they have just sold you an illegal trailer as it should have been IVA tested at least. To avoid this until October 2014 it would have to be classed as a caravan which needs to have storage, a bed and cooking facilities... which the sleeper doesn't have.

 

[philh24]

I must admit I never got any of what you did and it does make you wonder if yours had indeed been finished. I never got past the reception area I was told Friday originally then they phoned me and told me Monday. When I arrived at about 2 it was ready outside they showed me around it took my money and photos of the trike with it on and wished me well and safe trip home. My total time there was about an hour ,listening to the way they get them down off the mezzanine it's a wonder they don't damage more. Have you heard of any other sleepers with the a frame fracture.

Did either of you receive a certificate of conformity to show it has been type approved or even an IVA certificate?

I recieved a bill of sale and an order confirmation with the chassis number on. There is a vin plate on the chassis with date of manufacture and the unladen weight max weight and who made it. The chassis number is also on there which mine is 000121 so I am presuming they have made 121. I am not sure what number David's is it would be interesting to see how many they have churned out between his and mine.
I would presume David only got the same paperwork as me?

What was the date of manufacture? If it was after October 2012 and it hasn't been type approved then they have just sold you an illegal trailer as it should have been IVA tested at least. To avoid this until October 2014 it would have to be classed as a caravan which needs to have storage, a bed and cooking facilities... which the sleeper doesn't have.

It has a date of manufacture of May this year, they can probably get away with that then because its called a sleeper caravan. It does have a bed a small double matress and there is storage space at the front. The only thing it doesn't come with is a cooker but I am sure they would throw in one of those £10 gas ones to comply for now if they needed to. I would presume Daves was the same aswell as all the others that's been built.