Do I have a tongue weight problem?

[DryHeatDan]

I have a Koala Bear that is about 1,300 pounds loaded and tow it with a Honda Element which specifies 1,500 lb max towing. The 15% rule of thumb for my Bear says the tongue weight should be about 195 lbs. I tried weighing the tongue on a bathroom scale and it showed 61 lbs over at 256 lbs, or 19.7%. First question - Will using a bathroom scale give me an accurate reading at these weights? The videos I have seen online for figuring tongue weights seem to be for much heavier trailers. Second - is the overage something I need to worry about? Third - if I need to worry about it, any suggestions what to do about it? And, last - should I consider a weight distribution or equalization hitch?

Thanks.

 

[rjgimp]

Generally speaking extra tongue weight isn't a problem if your tow vehicle can handle it. Is there a maximum tow weight listed either for your Element or for the hitch you have installed? Does the rear of your Element squat such that the headlights wouldn't properly light the road ahead? I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

[Ottsville]

With a 1300 lb trailer and a 1500lb tow rating I would be concerned in general(does your trailer have brakes?). Even more so with a Honda. Don't know which transmission the Element has but my Odyssey had plenty of transmission issues even without towing. There should also be a listing in your owners manual for tongue weight loads and think about what else you are loading in and on your car including passengers. Regarding distribution hitches, keep in mind that those are heavy, possible negating the benefits) and there is some debate if they should be used on unibody vehicles.

 

[QueticoBill]

Mr Google says:

"Per Honda , the max towing capacity for the Element is 1500 LBS, the max tongue weight is 150 LBS, and any trailer over 1000 LBS needs to be equipped with brakes."


Also found this sage post:
"The rated towing capacity has everything to do with liability and is dictated by the insurance folks. The Same exact Element is rated to tow 3236lbs in Australia when using trailer brakes."

I'd certainly not go over the US limits in US because of liability.

So outfit trailer with brakes and figure out how to lighten tongue load. I found moving axel on my trailer not hard, but depends some on fenders. Too much we don't know about your trailer to be able to offer best answer.

Which transmission? 5 speed manual or 4 or 5 speed automatic? Consider a transmission cooler if towing long distances often.

 

[working on it]

* Estimating the tongue weight with a bathroom scale isn't 100% accurate, but close enough. I looked at the Koala Bear on the Rustic Trail website, and saw that it has a large front storage platform on the tongue...if yours has that, perhaps you could shift an item or two from that area into the trailer, further back, or into your Element. I spent several years moving/adding items forward in mine, to get the desired tongue weight. I started out my first trip with 3% tongue weight.

* 40 lbs/1430 lbs (loaded) was my tongue weight to total weight, since I had planned on having a large box on the tongue, but hadn't yet found one I liked. And, I had already stuffed the "galley" with very heavy items, including a built-in generator and A/C. So, I adapted a weight distributing hitch I already had, to work on my single-beam tongue. Using the wd hitch, I effectively made the tongue weight act like it was much greater, so it was safe to tow.

* Over the years, even after loading the tongue box I found, the tongue weight remained too low (under 10%) for my liking, so I built over-the-tongue box storage racks, and moved items there. Now, I've got 12% (266 lbs tongue weight/2222 lbs total weight), and don't have to depend on the wd hitch anymore (I take it along, in case of bad roads or high cross-winds that might make the trailer unsteady).

 

[DryHeatDan]

Thanks for the quick responses. My Element is a five speed manual and the Koala does have brakes. It also has a tongue box and AC at the front, which may be causing some of the problem. I'm going to try moving the side-mounted spare tire to the back of the cabin (under the bed) and see how much that helps. The tongue box has about 50 lbs in it so I can move a few things to bring that down substantially. The E will be about 500 lbs under GVWR, including passengers, gas, some water, and other cooking and foodstuffs.

 

[rjgimp]

Generally speaking extra tongue weight isn't a problem if your tow vehicle can handle it. Is there a maximum tow weight listed either for your Element or for the hitch you have installed? Does the rear of your Element squat such that the headlights wouldn't properly light the road ahead? I wouldn't be too concerned.

Nearly a week later I realize my typing error made my response make far less sense than I had intended. The question I MEANT was whether your Element has a maximum TONGUE weight rating. As long as you are under the gross rating, a tongue weight in the 20% - 40% range doesn't bother me a bit if the tow vehicle can handle it. If you weren't towing but instead had a cargo basket installed in your receiver, would you be comfortable hauling ~300 pounds in it? This is frequently the case with power wheelchairs/mobility scooters which are usually in the 200-300 pound range but heavier duty models often top 400.

You are under the rated limit AND you have brakes, which are really overkill for a trailer under 1500 pounds. A half dozen states don't even require brakes at all unless the trailer is over 4000 pounds. I see no cause for concern. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with your plan to redistribute a few things. Though not impossible, it would be difficult for you to accidentally swing things the opposite direction and end up with less than optimal tongue weight which would be far worse.

 

[QueticoBill]

".... have brakes, which are really overkill for a trailer under 1500 pounds. "

Even if the car manufacturer says otherwise? Honda says brakes if towing over 1000 pounds with Element. Subaru says same for my Outback - brakes if towing over 1000 up to its limit if 2900.

 

[Socal Tom]

Generally speaking extra tongue weight isn't a problem if your tow vehicle can handle it. Is there a maximum tow weight listed either for your Element or for the hitch you have installed? Does the rear of your Element squat such that the headlights wouldn't properly light the road ahead? I wouldn't be too concerned.

This is good advice. The amount of tongue weight you can handle will be somewhat dependent on the load in the car as well. Too much in the trunks is the same as too much tongue weight. A little extra TW is better than a little less than you need.

 

[rjgimp]

".... have brakes, which are really overkill for a trailer under 1500 pounds. "

Even if the car manufacturer says otherwise? Honda says brakes if towing over 1000 pounds with Element. Subaru says same for my Outback - brakes if towing over 1000 up to its limit if 2900.

In the opinion of the vast majority of the US states and Canadian provinces as well as this semi-retired trucker, yes. As you even mentioned earlier, that's determined more by insurance company bean counters than auto manufacturers. The exact same car is rated for more than twice the trailer weight Down Under than here in the States. Also, of those states and provinces that mention weight as a determining factor whether a trailer ought to have brakes, only two as far as I can decipher (New York and North Carolina) require them for a trailer under 1500 pounds. Many states (and I believe one province) don't even mention weight but instead require that a combination be able to stop in a controlled fashion within a certain distance.

My foamie build will likely be well under 2000 pounds and will have surge brakes as the donor frame I am using has them and they work just fine. Getting back to the subject of the thread I am actually aiming for at least 15% tongue weight and would even be comfortable with as much as 25% or so as I just prefer things that way and my main tow vehicle (Hummer H2) can easily handle it.

 

[troubleScottie]

There are some youtube videos which address the concepts of the trailer weight. *towing treadmill demonstration"

is nice as is

.

I believe the rule is typically 10-15% ball weight of the trailer. Too much is bad as is too little.

 

[cwegga]

Also found this sage post:
"The rated towing capacity has everything to do with liability and is dictated by the insurance folks. The Same exact Element is rated to tow 3236lbs in Australia when using trailer brakes."

I'd certainly not go over the US limits in US because of liability.

I would like to point out here that liability is not the only difference between towing in Australia or Europe, etc. and the US. If you look at trailer designs they vary across the world and many places have trailers with more centered axles and correspondingly lower tongue weights per trailer weight. Also going along with that different places have different laws about towing speeds. (Those low tongue weight trailers would be unstable at high US towing speeds) Last time I towed my camp trailer the speed limit at the highest was 85mph (135kph) and I towed at that. Places with different weight ratings, and different trailer designs often have different legal towing speeds also.

 

[LeftyDale]

I would like to second the comment regarding towing speeds. A lower tongue weight can be safe at lower speeds, but unstable at the speeds we tow in the US.

 

[Ottsville]

I would like to second the comment regarding towing speeds. A lower tongue weight can be safe at lower speeds, but unstable at the speeds we tow in the US.

One thing that rarely gets mentioned is these conversations is that in many US states towing speed limit is less than the usual speed limit.

 

[QueticoBill]

https://rvnerds.com/resources/speed-limits-and-towing/
Perhaps I missed one but it seems a total of 5 states still have lower rv limits, and I'm not sure any apply to single axel trailers in the weight range of most tnttt trailers.

 

[Ottsville]

https://rvnerds.com/resources/speed-limits-and-towing/
Perhaps I missed one but it seems a total of 5 states still have lower rv limits, and I'm not sure any apply to single axel trailers in the weight range of most tnttt trailers.

That link goes to RV and truck speed limits but does have some trailer information down lower. I see it doesn't list VA as a state with differing speed for towing, but I'm fairly certain that is incorrect. The section of the code linked below states combination vehicles have a lower speed limit than passenger vehicles. https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/tit ... n46.2-870/
I usually refer to this link for speeds, but I can't seem to find a date on it so it may be incorrect.
https://www.doityourselfrv.com/state-towing-speeds/

 

[Socal Tom]

Too much is bad as is too little.

Too little will cause instability and can lead to deathly outcomes. What seems ok on flat ground can change quickly in windy conditions, and on inclines, as weight transfers to the rear as you go up hill. A little too much is perfectly safe. A lot too much will over compress the springs and will be evident as soon as you pull out of the driveway. A lot too much is bad., but I worry much more about too little than I do too much.
Tom

 

[Chief-John]

My son loads a 4-wheeler on the front deck of his popup camper and used a load leveler to compensate. He just went to airbags in the rear coil springs of his 'FJ' and said, WOW! Vehicle handling is greatly improved over the load leveler and his trailer tracking is excellent

 

[MickinOz]

I would like to second the comment regarding towing speeds. A lower tongue weight can be safe at lower speeds, but unstable at the speeds we tow in the US.

Also found this sage post:
"The rated towing capacity has everything to do with liability and is dictated by the insurance folks. The Same exact Element is rated to tow 3236lbs in Australia when using trailer brakes."

I'd certainly not go over the US limits in US because of liability.

I would like to point out here that liability is not the only difference between towing in Australia or Europe, etc. and the US. If you look at trailer designs they vary across the world and many places have trailers with more centered axles and correspondingly lower tongue weights per trailer weight. Also going along with that different places have different laws about towing speeds. (Those low tongue weight trailers would be unstable at high US towing speeds) Last time I towed my camp trailer the speed limit at the highest was 85mph (135kph) and I towed at that. Places with different weight ratings, and different trailer designs often have different legal towing speeds also.

Guys, I call bullshit on your perceptions of Australia. We have speed limits of up to 130km/hr. (Northern Territory). Most of the open road is 110km/hr (68mph).
We also mandate minimum 10% of the loaded weight of the trailer must be on the tow ball. That has less to do with axle placement and more to do with where you place your load in relation to that axle.
Only one state has a lower limit for trailer towing. WA - 100km/hr or 62mph. It's not the state that has the 130 km/hr limit. I guarantee you, if the trailer is stable at our speeds, it will be stable at yours.