Foamie Vs Stick Philosophy

[AgentOrange]

Hello. I have been lurking for a while, looks like all roads (links) eventually lead back to tnttt, which is great as far as a 'good' focused community. I have been wanting to make a tiny camper for many years and finally mustered the time/effort/$$. It seems that the majority of builds use a more 'traditional' stick and plywood method (with all its advantages) but I am pretty much locked on making a foamie (for its advantages). I was wondering if my assumptions below are correct (philosophically speaking):

1. PLUS for Stick and Plywood
   1. Seem easier to get started (possibly requiring less upfront planning). Can make decisions as you go along.
   2. Provide more flexibility (want to add an awning? go ahead, drill anywhere (within reason))
2. CON for Stick and Plywood
   1. Weight. I forgot how freaking heavy a sheet of 3/4 ply is
   2. Easy to go down the overengineering rabbit hole

1. PLUS for Foamies
   1. Weigh. Very easy to underestimate the resilience/durability of a composite (whether PMF, mosquito netting/paint) I am dealing with that myself, never having worked with either.
   2. Able to work with non-toxic methods (PMF vs Fiberglass/epoxy) for very good functional results
2. CON for Foamies
   1. Flexibility. Want to add an awning? I hope you planned ahead for that to provide load-bearing backing, etc.
   2. Planning, planning, planning.

The results will show in the towing ease/maneuverability for the lighter trailer and possibly better insulation (wood having higher thermal transmission than foam).

Why did you choose to go down the foamie path or the stick and plywood path for your basic structure. Considering lightness could be considered a universal goal, why did you not go down the foamie path? Is there a lack of focus/information for the foamie style, forcing people down the 'tried and tested' stick path?

Any other major points I'm missing above?

Thanks in advance to your reply!

 

[Pmullen503]

Add to foamie construction pluses that the tools are simpler, walls and ceiling are lighter so easy to maneuver with one person. I spent much less time building my first foamy than my second wood trailer. (And less $$)

The lightness has another benefit: it's easier to move around when parking. You can unhitch and move around by hand easier.

You do have to plan for hard points but it's not that hard to retrofit but the patch will be visible.

Having built both, my biggest concern was the final finish. If you want a smooth glossy paint finish, then wood and fiberglass is the way to go. While it's possible to hide the canvas texture with enough filling and sanding, I didn't feel it was worth the effort.

It depends on what you want. A warm, light, inexpensive trailer that's great to camp in, then go foamy.

If you want something that will turn heads and show off your woodworking skills then go with wood. If you HAVE to have aluminum cladding, wood will be better. If you are worried about resale value a wood trailer will sell for more than a foamie.

About awnings, unless your roof is pretty high, the end of an awning will be pretty low. A cheap pop up works better and is more flexible.

 

[Tony Latham]

I seldom see a foamie with a galley that jumps out.

And to me, that's what defines an individual teardrop.

Tony

 

[AgentOrange]

I seldom see a foamie with a galley that jumps out.

And to me, that's what defines an individual teardrop.

Tony

Tony, I agree that form is important. My request for comments was for the major structural...I am not opposed to using wood for the galley, and in fact plan on using Premcore Plus for my galley. If you are not familiar, Premcore is a line of plywood that is much lighter than regular plywood. Yes, you have to be careful on how it is used (I prefer glue-rabbet assembly to 100% fastener assy) but it is sturdy enough for the purpose.

 

[AgentOrange]

Add to foamie construction pluses that the tools are simpler, walls and ceiling are lighter so easy to maneuver with one person. I spent much less time building my first foamy than my second wood trailer. (And less $$)

The lightness has another benefit: it's easier to move around when parking. You can unhitch and move around by hand easier.

You do have to plan for hard points but it's not that hard to retrofit but the patch will be visible.

Having built both, my biggest concern was the final finish. If you want a smooth glossy paint finish, then wood and fiberglass is the way to go. While it's possible to hide the canvas texture with enough filling and sanding, I didn't feel it was worth the effort.

It depends on what you want. A warm, light, inexpensive trailer that's great to camp in, then go foamy.

If you want something that will turn heads and show off your woodworking skills then go with wood. If you HAVE to have aluminum cladding, wood will be better. If you are worried about resale value a wood trailer will sell for more than a foamie.

About awnings, unless your roof is pretty high, the end of an awning will be pretty low. A cheap pop up works better and is more flexible.

Pmullen, thanks for the reminder to think out of the box (or awning). You are right...sometimes we get obsessed with one solution (an attached awning) when a detached one could work as well (or better).

Regarding the roof, my design is using box or finger joints (6 inch 'teeth') to join the walls to the roof so totally flat. I have seen comments about how a good design has a roof with some slope to help water not pool. I would be interested in your thoughts on how to achieve this. I live in Socal so 90% of the time rain is not an issue, but when it rains....

Thanks!

 

[Pmullen503]

Pmullen, thanks for the reminder to think out of the box (or awning). You are right...sometimes we get obsessed with one solution (an attached awning) when a detached one could work as well (or better).

Regarding the roof, my design is using box or finger joints (6 inch 'teeth') to join the walls to the roof so totally flat. I have seen comments about how a good design has a roof with some slope to help water not pool. I would be interested in your thoughts on how to achieve this. I live in Socal so 90% of the time rain is not an issue, but when it rains....

Thanks!

My foamie profile is basically a box with a curved front hatch. What I could have/should have done is instead of a roof that was parallel with the floor, is slant the front or back a few degrees to shed water.

The other thing I could have done was put a gentle curve across the top. Two layers of 1" would have easily bent a couple inches over 8 feet without having to kerf the foam. I fact, I think if you covered one side of 1" foam with non-preshrunk canvas before it's installed, you'd get a shallow curve as it dried.

As it is, I lift the front several inches when stored to shed water.

I use grooves (cut with a 1/4 wing bit) and splines to help align things during assembly. It's a good idea to something to align the surface during assembly. The foam is not necessarily going to be perfectly flat. Get yourself some bamboo skewers, you can use them like nails to hold things together during glue up.

 

[AgentOrange]

I was thinking about a gentle bow across the top as well. Not sure I understand what you mean by "covered one side of 1" foam with non-preshrunk canvas"...I am having trouble imagining what you're describing.

Just a thought... my design incorporates 2" square poles at each corner and top that build a kind of rail fairing. I could have a cross member that could gently pull up in the middle...I also have not worked out how I will reinforce a ceiling fan, but here you can see some of my sketchup models.

I am still undecided as to the rear end...making it winged (I was toying with changing the angle) or boxed. Boxed is less wasted space but looks like an amazon delivery truck, and not even sure that space will be used. Any thoughts on the rear door? I have purchased 2 entrance doors (for the sides) but I will be building the rear hatch (for the galley, still in design phase).

 

[AgentOrange]

I also would be interested in understanding how you make the grooves. Is this what you mean by a wing bit?

 

[Pmullen503]

 

[Getgreg60]

Hello. I have been lurking for a while, looks like all roads (links) eventually lead back to tnttt, which is great as far as a 'good' focused community. I have been wanting to make a tiny camper for many years and finally mustered the time/effort/$$. It seems that the majority of builds use a more 'traditional' stick and plywood method (with all its advantages) but I am pretty much locked on making a foamie (for its advantages). I was wondering if my assumptions below are correct (philosophically speaking):

1. PLUS for Stick and Plywood
   1. Seem easier to get started (possibly requiring less upfront planning). Can make decisions as you go along.
   2. Provide more flexibility (want to add an awning? go ahead, drill anywhere (within reason))
2. CON for Stick and Plywood
   1. Weight. I forgot how freaking heavy a sheet of 3/4 ply is
   2. Easy to go down the overengineering rabbit hole

1. PLUS for Foamies
   1. Weigh. Very easy to underestimate the resilience/durability of a composite (whether PMF, mosquito netting/paint) I am dealing with that myself, never having worked with either.
   2. Able to work with non-toxic methods (PMF vs Fiberglass/epoxy) for very good functional results
2. CON for Foamies
   1. Flexibility. Want to add an awning? I hope you planned ahead for that to provide load-bearing backing, etc.
   2. Planning, planning, planning.

The results will show in the towing ease/maneuverability for the lighter trailer and possibly better insulation (wood having higher thermal transmission than foam).

Why did you choose to go down the foamie path or the stick and plywood path for your basic structure. Considering lightness could be considered a universal goal, why did you not go down the foamie path? Is there a lack of focus/information for the foamie style, forcing people down the 'tried and tested' stick path?

Any other major points I'm missing above?

Thanks in advance to your reply!

Great synopsis! I hope to start working on my foamie build by next spring. It definitely takes an extra amount of pre-planning and even pre-planning. My build starts with a Karavan 7x13 utility trailer with a 1 ft dovetail and a rear ramp. I'm planning to build a the foamie 102" x 144" (the flat part). I'll be using finger joints for additional strength and stability. There's a lot of planning to do there.

Thanks for your perspective on the comparison.

 

[Tony Latham]

I was thinking about a gentle bow across the top as well.

Your roof will never be level. It will slope to the back, or front, or left, or right. It's different than building a house on a perfectly level slab.

Just put a couple of cranks in the tongue jack.

Tony

 

[ghcoe]

I seldom see a foamie with a galley that jumps out.

And to me, that's what defines an individual teardrop.

Tony

Best shot I got right now. Going to have to get better shots at some point.

 

[ghcoe]

View attachment 1950334

Be prepared for a Pink Blizzard! Wood falls to the ground, foam becomes static when cut like that and sticks to everything...

 

[ghcoe]

I was thinking about a gentle bow across the top as well. Not sure I understand what you mean by "covered one side of 1" foam with non-preshrunk canvas"...I am having trouble imagining what you're describing.

Just a thought... my design incorporates 2" square poles at each corner and top that build a kind of rail fairing. I could have a cross member that could gently pull up in the middle...I also have not worked out how I will reinforce a ceiling fan, but here you can see some of my sketchup models.

I am still undecided as to the rear end...making it winged (I was toying with changing the angle) or boxed. Boxed is less wasted space but looks like an amazon delivery truck, and not even sure that space will be used. Any thoughts on the rear door? I have purchased 2 entrance doors (for the sides) but I will be building the rear hatch (for the galley, still in design phase).

I would not bother with the finger joints. Not worth the time and will create a appearance issue. All those finger joints will telegraph through the PMF and can cause delamination in those areas. Foam expands and contracts at a high rate. With the finger joints it will constantly be working against itself. I have been beating on a foamie off road for 6 years now. I think if the standard joints were to fail, they would have failed a long time ago. I don't drive regular roads I go places most people won't go. For example... Yes there is a foamie behind me on a Harbor Freight trailer frame.

 

[ghcoe]

Pmullen, thanks for the reminder to think out of the box (or awning). You are right...sometimes we get obsessed with one solution (an attached awning) when a detached one could work as well (or better).

Regarding the roof, my design is using box or finger joints (6 inch 'teeth') to join the walls to the roof so totally flat. I have seen comments about how a good design has a roof with some slope to help water not pool. I would be interested in your thoughts on how to achieve this. I live in Socal so 90% of the time rain is not an issue, but when it rains....

Thanks!

You can build your roof similar to how Runaway trailers build their roofs. Just a slight bend and like you said 1" will easily bend around that shallow of a bow. I did something similar to it on my #4 Build.