FoamStream...

[GPW]

Well, I guess everybody's seen the FoamStream drawings in my Album .... Really excited about this build ! In the planning and materials acquisition stage ... Been reading up on Wagon"bows" .... Most seem to be 5/8" X 2" strips 14' long , and made of hardwood ... pre-bent and somewhat pricy...
Needed here is 16' strips 3/4" X 3"-4" , the wider strips providing more surface area to glue the foam sides to...
Problem is going to be finding hardwoods in 16' lengths , not to mention expensive... couple alternatives come to mind...
One , just use shorter 1/4" hardwood strips and just laminate them together with staggered seams ... ?
Two, make thin 1/4" plywood strips and laminate those together ...?
Three, we can easily get #1 Pine here (clear, no knots) even in 16'... Might be thrifty to buzz up a board into strips and use that ... Wonder if Pine is strong or flexible enough ...???
Four, buy the pre-made Wagon bows ($$$) and make a box off the floor to retain the 6'3" inner height..
Five . laminate all the ribs out of Foam ... Thick enough and wide enough should be strong ... enough ... Maybe some plywood "faces" on the ribs???

to be continued ...

 

[RAYVILLIAN]

I once tried laminating 9mil luan around a rain barrel and 2 strips held solid on both ends would hold up a cement block but if the ends moved it would collapse. The strips were about 2" wide just glued and clamped around the barrel to keep the shape till dry.

I laminated the curves in the roof of the new trailer the same way but made a simple form of blocks to shape them and used clear pine cut in 1/8" strips.

Gary

 

[GPW]

Thanks Gary, That clear Pine may be the best (thrifty) way of doing it ... That and the lengthwise stringers should make it pretty strong , especially with the inner formers, the foam skin and the "sock" over that ... Still should be Light ...

On the other hand , the Luan would be Easy ...little less sawing ... easy to make Wider...

 

[aggie79-HILO]

GPW,

I think I'd be tempted to use 1/4" plywood - if you can get decent ply - and laminate several strips to get your thickness.

Tom

 

[GPW]

Tom , that's looking like the easiest way to get the wider strips .... I originally wanted Hickory strips because of their great strength and bend properties , even found a guy in GA to cut them , but would have been some BIG Bucks ... and still I'd have to ship em here , and bend them , so that's out .... Checked on clear Pine ... it's available in 16' ... 2" by's ... actually 1.5" wide , not wide enough ... Would need a big bandsaw to resaw it vertically 3.5" W ... so that's looking more unsuitable, although I could just double up on the 1.5" "bows" , use twice as many (14 instead of 7 ) , one every foot apart ... Ply is sounding better and better ... table saw , wide strips , form and we're making "bows" ... that would be the easy way ... for me anyhow ...

 

[mikeschn]

The Shakers loved pine... light, strong, easy to work...

Mike...

 

[GPW]

Mike , I think they used the old growth Pine ... that was some Good stuff ... the new farm Pine is grown pretty quick , not as much dense wood in the much wider rings ... worry about it bending/breaking when bent ...
Perhaps a T shaped rib/bow with a 4" wide outer ply layer and narrower 1.5" inner Pine layer ??? Have to do more thinking on that ... I do need as much surface area as I can manage to glue the foam to ... especially at the seams where they join each other ... Maybe the answer is just add another reinforcing fabric strip on the outside before covering at the seams ... Probably end up doing that anyway ...

 

[CapN-SKO]

does it all have to be one piece couldnt you cut it out of 2x12 with part of your curve and join a few of them together and once you have one use it as a template for the others

 

[GPW]

Droid , just thinking one piece would be stronger ... Maybe ??? I've laminated parts like this before , just not so Big !!! Don't anticipate any trouble , other than getting/cutting the stock to bend ... If I had my druthers , I'd drive to MS , cut down a Hickory tree , split it out green and then resaw ... I made longbows like that before ... Green Hickory bends like CRAZY !!! ... When it dries out , it's pretty solid ... UP North they sell green Hickory for sled runners ... But I live so far South , there's little call for them here ..

Had a thought of using Bamboo , but might look too Tiki Hut ish' ...
Lots of tall Bamboo in the neighborhood ...

 

[mezmo]

Hi GPW,

Here's a link I came across Image Googling 'Conestoga Wagons'. I gave
it to depatty already. The third pic down shows their roof bows. '
Haven't yet gone through the site in detail yet as I wanted to give
you two the link [before I forgot to do so!].

http://conestogawagons.wordpress.com/

As far as your bows go: Why not just rip some good quality 1/4in
ply into 4in strips and laminate them three-four thick? [with staggered
joints] It should be the cheapest way to do it and the least labor intensive.
You may even be able to laminate the stringers crosswise through the
center lamination if you wanted to get 'fancy' with it. But even if you just
do the ribs only, if you then apply some of that 4in fiberglass tape
[I seem to recall you had a roll of it you used to reinforce all the
body connections on the little Camo Boxie Foamie.] in epoxy or glue,
or whatever you decide on, that should certainly give you enough
strength. The FG tape could go just on the top or both wide faces of
the ribs or you could go all out and do each narrow face, overlapping it
onto the wide faces and then apply more FG tape on the wide faces on
top of that. Many approaches on that I'm sure. Ripping
down clear boards -hard to find good ones with straight grain anyways -
just seems like a lot of [unnecessary] work to me as well as [super
"green" mode here] wasting a lot of good wood into sawdust as you
rip the -no doubt- expensive clear strait wood into 1/8 to 1/4 in strips.
That would be hard to do on the wide face anyway, especially if you
don't have the correct saw to do so.

Just thought I'd pass the link along and chime in on an approach for
making the bows.

"Thrifty" can encompass time as well as materials I think, eh?

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

 

[GPW]

Mez, it appears that's the way it's going to happen ... The lam Ply ribs do seem the easiest way to get the wide ribs we need ... Thanks !!!

 

[eaglesdare]

oh yay a new build thread!

 

[GPW]

Yes, I couldn't contain myself any longer and HAD to consult with our learned colleagues , wagon meisters', and folks with better ideas than mine ... Worked!!! ... now we have the inspiration for the laminated plywood Mc Rib ... Wide enough to allow a good gluing surface for the foam outer panels ... easy for the old Geezer to make .. even Thrifty too ... Doesn't get much better than this eh !!! Best of all , I can bend them over a foam form ... the same one I'll be using for for the end wall .... again , no waste ... save the bits cut off the rounded part of the wall/former , and I'm sure we'll find a use for those .. somewhere?

The more I think of this , the more evident it becomes we don't even need the inside skeleton The foam and a few formers would be strong enough ... but can't help but to think the real benefit of the wood skeleton/frame is for "attachment points" ... all over the place ... very convenient ... no easier way to attach shelving , beds, fold down tables , lanterns, cargo nets , ships wheel , periscope ...

 

[GPW]

Still doing the planning on the FoamStream , still clearing a space for the build INSIDE ... and sourcing/gathering materials ...

Calculated that for building those "bows" the best alternative for me is to make them out of the recommended thin plywood strips , laminated into shape ... For reasons of practicality , I'll be making them in halves (one side) with a little T&G joinery at the top ... Figuring the reinforcing strip and skin will hold it all together at that point anyway ...

Also thinking 16' might be a bit long ... 14' seeming more practical .... just a shorter Nose anyway , the 12' living space remaining the same ... I laid out components on a similar sized rug ... everything fits , but I see I have to move the rear door over slightly towards the Mini Galley side to give a touch more elbow room in the potty .. No problem really ...

Slowly developing ... Thinking of starting the build in the Fall when/if it gets a little Cooler ... Plenty of time to shop around for the best materials at the best prices ...

 

[eaglesdare]

the potty is a must.

 

[GPW]

Definitely !!! For my size the potty room has to be at least 28" Wide Plus the 2" wall (inside) and you see the need for the offset door ... Could replace that wall with just a curtain ??? Lighter , easier and a little more elbow room ... Many things to still consider ...

 

[GPW]

Well since it was too HOT to do anything , I've been doodling the FoamStream ( pencil and paper ) ... Just a rough sketch of what the inside would/should look like ... Trying to keep it SIMPLE !!!!

 

[wagondude]

A rough sketch he calls it. That is looking good. I like the layout.

Bill

 

[mezmo]

Hi GPW,

Nice perspective drawing!

I have a suggestion for you to consider regarding the bath. - I've never
quite understood why TT/RV designers etc. make the baths/toilet rooms
as small as they do. Very few real sized people that I've run into can
actually FIT in them to use them. You might be able to cram-stand
yourself inside them but try to bend your body to use them or turn around
or raise your arms etc.. I realize they have a small amount of space to
use or deal with, but to enclose the 'facilities' in their own small cramped
'cubicle-ette' just because most people "think" it has to be that way is a
ridiculous way to design a useful and comfortable camping vehicle.

Here's my proposal: Turn the toilet 90 degrees to face the center of the
Foamstream. Keep it in an area that is at least 32-36in wide. You can
infill any room on each side of the centered toilet/porta-potty within that
space with small storage spaces that aren't higher than the seat height.
[Ideally one of the cassette toilets would be great here.] You can build
overhead cabinets above the Toilet/PP space at a height that avoids head
banging on them. To enclose the toilet/PP when not in use build either:
Two overlapping doors the width of the distance of the aisle between the
cabinets on each side that fold out to create 'bath' walls, one against the
back [entry] wall and the other partitioning off the living area. [Use thin
ply panels or foam&canvas], if you want a totally enclosed space, add an
additional 32-36in panel to fold out from one of the primary panels to form
a 3rd wall against the cabinets opposite the toilet/PP. This could also be
made as one "Z" or three piece folding panel to accomplish the same
purpose. The other way would be to make a wall the width of the cabinet
space used for the toilet/PP that faces the center, which would pull out
towards the opposite cabinet, using bi-fold side walls that would close off
the rear entry wall and the living area. Both these methods would give an
ample space for use of the toilet/PP. What ever time and effort that would
be needed to open up the bath is negligible, especially for the benefit it
provides in my opinion. Panel sizes and configurations to accomplish the
enclosure can be adjusted and tweaked per final design. Why waste the
center aisle space when it can be temporarily included and used for the
toilet/PP room. You have it available so use it.

If one of the occupants need to go outside for a moment or two, what's
the big deal? The Foamstream would allow both occupants to stay inside -
one in the living area while the other uses the toilet/PP room.

Just trying to exercise [or should that be "exorcise"?] one of my pet
peeves about TT/RV design!

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

 

[GPW]

Norm , I was thinking of eliminating (no pun intended) the potty wall , and just using a shower curtain kind of thing across that area ... Having traveled in train sleeper cars , those tiny bathrooms just barely provide enough room ... Maybe just a little stub wall at the back for support , and then the potty area would be wide open ... Like the idea of putting it sideways ... for more elbow room ...