Groot 2.0 Build Log

[reaver]

My build has commenced!!

First things first though.... If you haven't seen my design, that's documented in the following thread :

https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=76162&start=45

We started with the floor. I used 2x4 for the framing, 1/2 in ply for the bottom, and 1/4 birch on the top. The voids are filled with 1.5 inch foam insulation

The panels are staggered on the top and bottom. There are two 48x60 panels on the bottom of the floor, and one 48x58 (or thereabouts) panel on the top center, and one 24x58 (give or take) panels on each end.

We then measured about 8 times before cutting the door out from the side wall, and seeing where it landed.

The, basing everything off the dimensions in my design, cut all the voids out for the wall insulation, giving us the template for the other wall.

Today, the plan is to get the rear galley skeleton cut, test fit that door, get the other wall skeleton cut, and get the inner skins on the walls.

I was hoping to be able to wait on moving the axle, but that's going to have to happen sooner, rather than later, it seems.


We then cut o

 

[reaver]

I didn't get as much done today as I'd hoped, but, after one weekend, I have the wall skeletons cut, and skinned on the inside, as well as the floor made.

I'll be back at it next Saturday, getting the walls up, the rear galley wall cut and skinned, and whatever else I can get done.

 

[reaver]

Due to Easter weekend, no work was done on the trailer last weekend.

But, today, we were back at it!

While I was measuring the back wall in preparation to cut out the rear door, @David H was busy cutting out some of the expanded metal, so we can pass wires and water hose through the floor.

We also managed to get the stabilizer jacks mounted.

I need shorter bolts, but they're quite solid, and can easily lift the trailer off the ground.

We also managed to get ALL the panels cut out for the cabinetry. 4 sheets of 1/2 in plywood....

And the glue for the canvas dried enough to put the first coat of paint on the floor.

We should be able to get two more coats on the floor tomorrow. We also get the inner skin on the back wall, and hopefully we can flip the floor, and get the side and rear walls glued and screwed to the floor.

 

[23Sojourney45]

My build has commenced!!



We started with the floor. I used 2x4 for the framing, 1/2 in ply for the bottom, and 1/4 birch on the top. The voids are filled with 1.5 inch foam insulation

I have a question, since your top ply is 1/4 birch, how did you bolt your floor framing fully assembled to your metal chassis frame? 1/4 birch isn't too thick. Did you use carriage bolts, elevator bolts, or hex bolts? if you used hex bolts, I'm assuming that you didn't countersink them since its 1/4. I'm at this stage as well (long break of not building) and I'm trying to figure out how to attach the whole floor assembly to my metal frame chassis. I would use carriage bolts but I remembered reading that they're basically stuck there forever. They're hard to remove in the future if for some reason you need to remove them. Thanks.

 

[working on it]

My build has commenced!!



We started with the floor. I used 2x4 for the framing, 1/2 in ply for the bottom, and 1/4 birch on the top. The voids are filled with 1.5 inch foam insulation

I have a question, since your top ply is 1/4 birch, how did you bolt your floor framing fully assembled to your metal chassis frame? 1/4 birch isn't too thick. Did you use carriage bolts, elevator bolts, or hex bolts? if you used hex bolts, I'm assuming that you didn't countersink them since its 1/4. I'm at this stage as well (long break of not building) and I'm trying to figure out how to attach the whole floor assembly to my metal frame chassis. I would use carriage bolts but I remembered reading that they're basically stuck there forever. They're hard to remove in the future if for some reason you need to remove them. Thanks.

from another thread, long ago:

Did I read right that your floor will be insulated and the bottom plywood will be 3/4" thick? If so, the 3/4" plywood is overkill. You really don't need much in the way of fasteners to attach the teardrop shell to the frame. I used self-tapping trailer deck screws that go directly into the 2" tube steel frame.

• I didn't insulate, but installed my floor in two stages, with two types of fasteners, making a 3/4" floor from two different plywood sheets.
  
  
• 1)The base, a 4'x 8' sheet of 1/2" birch plywood (it sat unused in my wood storage shed for 10-15 years, very dry and hard), was centered on my 50" wide x 97" frame (original was 50" x 60", rectangular tubing added), with 1" frame showing on the sides, and 1" on the rear (the front was set flush with the frame). I used eight 3/8" carriage bolts to the original frame tubing, at the old front and rear tube, slightly countersunk to not have the bolt heads protrude too much above the plywood.
  
  
• 2)Then, I applied a full, thick coat of Titebond 2 adhesive to cover the birch base, and placed a sheet of 1/4" Lauan over it, using Tek screws to secure it to the perimeter of the frame. I started at the back, working forward, pressing out the glue with a roller as I went. I used around 36-38 screws, if I remember correctly. I sat some feed bags in the center, to hold it flat, and let it dry for a week or so.
  
  
• I probably didn't need to do the double-layer floor, but, after countersinking the carriage bolts, I needed to cover the heads anyway, so the Lauan was an afterthought, which brought the floor thickness to 3/4" (nominal), to match the plywood thickness that I was going to use for the remainder of the build. I used the birch, just to use it up, and had planned to use linoleum to finish the floor, but I liked the grain of the Lauan, so it became my floor surface.
  
  I had always intended to screw down the perimeter, so that served the double purpose of securing the top sheet, also. Looking back, I would've just used the perimeter screws, but I was in overkill mode, so why not use two methods of fastening down the floor?
• 
  
  
  1/2" birch plywood base, with carriage bolts
• 
  top sheet screwed and glued on; drying out
• 
  finished floor, stained, polyurethaned

As I stated above, my floor isn't insulated, per se, but it does have a thick waterproof coating of "the mix"(using the same poly referred to below, plus oil-based paint thinner), followed by several coals of MinWax Polyurethane for Floors (oil-based) as the finish (which is completely covered by a rubber/carpet mat). I bought two TrafficMaster Charcoal 36 in. W x 60 in. L Rectangle Stain Resistant Commercial Mats, from Home Depot https://www.homedepot.com/p/Traffic...ain-Resistant-Commercial-Mat-482893/206309506 (which was the best they had in stock at that time, 2012), and overlapped and cut them to fit the 45.5" x 72" interior floor space. They're thick enough to do a little insulation, and work well for my Texas/Oklahoma camping. I might've used the foam-filled version for more insulative properties, but I really didn't need that quality.

And, concerning the possibility of removing the floor, there's likely none, unless the superstructure above is removed first. The walls all are glues and bolted (using steel angle and corner brackets) directly on top of the floor, with extra waterproofing coating protecting the exposed edge-grain of the 4x8 floor. But, if that was ever desired, then the 36-38 Tek screws would be unscrewed, and the nuts for the eight carriage bolts, on the underside of the floor, would come off, the bolts hammered upwards and out. Of course, since the Lauan was thoroughly glued to the plywood base, I'd have to use a BFH to hammer the bolts through the Lauan top sheet. Might be easier to start over!

 

[Tony Latham]

I have a question, since your top ply is 1/4 birch, how did you bolt your floor framing fully assembled to your metal chassis frame? 1/4 birch isn't too thick.

His floor has a framework made from 2x4s and perhaps 6s. Something similar to what I advocate for but I use 3/4" framing.

Tony

 

[reaver]

My build has commenced!!



We started with the floor. I used 2x4 for the framing, 1/2 in ply for the bottom, and 1/4 birch on the top. The voids are filled with 1.5 inch foam insulation

I have a question, since your top ply is 1/4 birch, how did you bolt your floor framing fully assembled to your metal chassis frame? 1/4 birch isn't too thick. Did you use carriage bolts, elevator bolts, or hex bolts? if you used hex bolts, I'm assuming that you didn't countersink them since its 1/4. I'm at this stage as well (long break of not building) and I'm trying to figure out how to attach the whole floor assembly to my metal frame chassis. I would use carriage bolts but I remembered reading that they're basically stuck there forever. They're hard to remove in the future if for some reason you need to remove them. Thanks.

Tony is correct. The base of the floor is 1/2 in sheathing. This is glued and screwed to the 2x4 runners and spars, with 1/4 birch forming the upper skin of the floor. I staggered the joints, so there is one joint on the bottom side, and two joints on the top. Inside the floor is filled with 1.5 in rigid foam insulation. Is it heavier than it needs to be? Sure. Its still light enough for my buddy and I to manhandle it. We managed to flip it over, get the bottom side PMF'd with 3 coats of exterior paint, and then once dried, flipped it back over to attach the walls.

I haven't actually attached the floor as of yet. But, I have brackets that are bolted to the frame (I found some simpson strong tie brackets that are exactly the right dimension). I'll drill up through the bracket, poking through the floor on the inside. I'll then counter sink the bolt into the floor, and then place plastic caps on top, covering the bolts. I designed it this way, since I wasn't quite sure exactly where my mounting brackets were going to be placed. I'll glob the hole with sikaflex sealant when I run the carriage bolt through, sealing the hole up.

I'm taking friday off work, and will be coating the inner skins of the floor and walls with polyurethane. Then I will be working on drilling dowel holes that I will be using to assemble the cabinets, while waiting for the first coat of poly to dry. I'll also be putting a coat of poly on all the cabinetry panels prior to assembly.

 

[23Sojourney45]

@working on it
I often wondered how many people who have made teardrops have made it removable. I've read on here that some people like to do that, it got me wondering if I will ever need to do that unless to haul/move things from A to B. I can definitely imagine in your situation that it would be more work to remove than keep it connected.

 

[23Sojourney45]

I have a question, since your top ply is 1/4 birch, how did you bolt your floor framing fully assembled to your metal chassis frame? 1/4 birch isn't too thick.

His floor has a framework made from 2x4s and perhaps 6s. Something similar to what I advocate for but I use 3/4" framing.

Tony

Ah yes, Tony. If I build another one, I may make it extended like yours. I can imagine the roomier build of a "bigger" build, would need to add more skeleton definitely.

 

[23Sojourney45]

I haven't actually attached the floor as of yet. But, I have brackets that are bolted to the frame (I found some simpson strong tie brackets that are exactly the right dimension). I'll drill up through the bracket, poking through the floor on the inside. I'll then counter sink the bolt into the floor, and then place plastic caps on top, covering the bolts. I designed it this way, since I wasn't quite sure exactly where my mounting brackets were going to be placed. I'll glob the hole with sikaflex sealant when I run the carriage bolt through, sealing the hole up.

.

Sounds like a good plan. Will you be counter sinking from the 1/4 plywood side? If so, how much "meat" will you be taking off the 1/4 side to still have some sort of grabbing power to the plywood? I may follow this path, just depends if there's any meat left. But, I'm assuming with enough glue that I've used to attach the inside floor plywood to the skeleton spars that it should be plenty strong even if a little bit of "meat" is taken off for counter sinking.

 

[reaver]

I'm going to counter sink the bolts into the 2x4,so I'll be drilling completely through the 1/4 in ply. It's held on by copious amounts of pl premium adhesive, and 2 inch staples. It's not coming off.

 

[23Sojourney45]

I'm going to counter sink the bolts into the 2x4,so I'll be drilling completely through the 1/4 in ply. It's held on by copious amounts of pl premium adhesive, and 2 inch staples. It's not coming off.

Yeh, I figured the glue would hold it indefinitely. I have to remind myself that wood glue is strong, lol.

 

[reaver]

I finally found some 3/4 in insulation panels for the walls. I managed to find a local lumber yard that can get them for me. Granted, it's not cheap at $40/sheet, but nothing is these days. I've already ordered two sheets (one for each side wall). I'll be much happier with R5.6 than with R2.6...Now, the question is, do I want to switch to XPS for the roof? R 7.5 vs R5.6...

 

[Tony Latham]

Now, the question is, do I want to switch to XPS for the roof? R 7.5 vs R5.6...

You'll sleep with the windows and vent fan cracked. You'll never notice the difference in R value.

Tony

 

[reaver]

Now, the question is, do I want to switch to XPS for the roof? R 7.5 vs R5.6...

You'll sleep with the windows and vent fan cracked. You'll never notice the difference in R value.

Tony

I understand what you're saying there. But, I have a diesel heater that will be used, as well as the fact that my wife and I both use CPAPs, which really cuts down on the condensation. Now, my kiddo, well that's a whole different thing. But, I want a uniform foam on those panels, so it's either going to be R5.6 (which is what I have for the 1.5 inch already, and is what's in the floor), or it's going to be r7.5 XPS foam. Would the XPS foam give me more rigidty in the roof? Are there other reasons to go with one type over the other, when making sandwhich panels?

 

[Tony Latham]

Now, the question is, do I want to switch to XPS for the roof? R 7.5 vs R5.6...

You'll sleep with the windows and vent fan cracked. You'll never notice the difference in R value.

Tony

I understand what you're saying there. But, I have a diesel heater that will be used, as well as the fact that my wife and I both use CPAPs, which really cuts down on the condensation. Now, my kiddo, well that's a whole different thing. But, I want a uniform foam on those panels, so it's either going to be R5.6 (which is what I have for the 1.5 inch already, and is what's in the floor), or it's going to be r7.5 XPS foam. Would the XPS foam give me more rigidty in the roof? Are there other reasons to go with one type over the other, when making sandwhich panels?

Either foam type will support 1/8” Baltic for the headliner and roof.

 

[working on it]

Now, the question is, do I want to switch to XPS for the roof? R 7.5 vs R5.6...

You'll sleep with the windows and vent fan cracked. You'll never notice the difference in R value.

Tony

Of course, that depends on where you camp, and the weather conditions.

I didn't insulate my roof, of 3/4" plywood (thoroughly waterproofed), because I would never need insulation up there in colder weather (I've only camped in 36F minimum temps) and the small inner space of my 4'x8' gets enough heat from the one or two Lasko "My Heat" (200W each) ceramic heaters I'll use, my body heat, and I'll use a winter sleeping bag. Stays OK for me, as I solo camp.


In moderate weather, for N.Texas-S.Okla., in March-early April, I'll use opened awning windows, side vents (with computer case fans sucking outside air in/blowing cabin air out), and/or the 11" fan (Honeywell Turboforce Fan, mounted hanging from the overhead shelf at the front of the trailer. That works ok, unless the pollen and allergens get real bad, then I'll shut the windows, direct the vent fans outward, and use the A/C unit (with filter) to help with cabin cooling, sans the pollen (the A/C recirculates the cabin air, so no extra allergens get introduced). Actually works well.


But, the warmer months require a different approach, as some days I've camped got up to over 100F. With direct sun heating up the trailer all day, I'd depend on my LG 5000 btu window A/C (mounted in the rear wall, between the cabin & galley, behind my head) to cool it down. The A/C unit is placed up high, where the output is first directed along the underside of the hot ceiling, then redirected back towards me by the 11 inch overhead fan. That works OK at night when the sun goes down, but it takes awhile.


The delayed cooling during 100+ days and hot nights was defeated by using a pop-up canopy placed over the whole 4'x8' camper, shielding at least the roof from the direct sun (I lower it as close to the roof as possible). That reduced the heat by a bunch! I use the canopy as a rain shield also (it always rains, at least one T-storm per trip, ever since I camped with the BSA in the '60's), and it overhangs my "front porch" (the door I use to get in & out, my sitting & cooking area, and the entrance to my pop-up potty tent), giving me a 4'x8" area out of the sun or rain. I'll stay cooler and drier outside under the canopy, and the cabin will stay cooler, with the roof shielded from the sun, as well (I have reflective aluminum "silo" paint on all upward facing surfaces...roof, front sloped roof, and raised rear hatch), but the canopy helps more. You might consider using one for warmer weather months, too.

 

[reaver]

Now, the question is, do I want to switch to XPS for the roof? R 7.5 vs R5.6...

You'll sleep with the windows and vent fan cracked. You'll never notice the difference in R value.

Tony

Of course, that depends on where you camp, and the weather conditions.

I didn't insulate my roof, of 3/4" plywood (thoroughly waterproofed), because I would never need insulation up there in colder weather (I've only camped in 36F minimum temps) and the small inner space of my 4'x8' gets enough heat from the one or two Lasko "My Heat" (200W each) ceramic heaters I'll use, my body heat, and I'll use a winter sleeping bag. Stays OK for me, as I solo camp.


In moderate weather, for N.Texas-S.Okla., in March-early April, I'll use opened awning windows, side vents (with computer case fans sucking outside air in/blowing cabin air out), and/or the 11" fan (Honeywell Turboforce Fan, mounted hanging from the overhead shelf at the front of the trailer. That works ok, unless the pollen and allergens get real bad, then I'll shut the windows, direct the vent fans outward, and use the A/C unit (with filter) to help with cabin cooling, sans the pollen (the A/C recirculates the cabin air, so no extra allergens get introduced). Actually works well.


But, the warmer months require a different approach, as some days I've camped got up to over 100F. With direct sun heating up the trailer all day, I'd depend on my LG 5000 btu window A/C (mounted in the rear wall, between the cabin & galley, behind my head) to cool it down. The A/C unit is placed up high, where the output is first directed along the underside of the hot ceiling, then redirected back towards me by the 11 inch overhead fan. That works OK at night when the sun goes down, but it takes awhile.


The delayed cooling during 100+ days and hot nights was defeated by using a pop-up canopy placed over the whole 4'x8' camper, shielding at least the roof from the direct sun (I lower it as close to the roof as possible). That reduced the heat by a bunch! I use the canopy as a rain shield also (it always rains, at least one T-storm per trip, ever since I camped with the BSA in the '60's), and it overhangs my "front porch" (the door I use to get in & out, my sitting & cooking area, and the entrance to my pop-up potty tent), giving me a 4'x8" area out of the sun or rain. I'll stay cooler and drier outside under the canopy, and the cabin will stay cooler, with the roof shielded from the sun, as well (I have reflective aluminum "silo" paint on all upward facing surfaces...roof, front sloped roof, and raised rear hatch), but the canopy helps more. You might consider using one for warmer weather months, too.

Insulating is pretty important to my build. I live in Idaho (as does Tony), and it gets very cold in the winter, and very hot in the summer. We tend to go to higher elevations when it gets hot, but having a well insulated trailer with heat, might actually convince the wife to come out when it's colder...

Now, as far as build progress goes, I took yesterday off, and spent the day coating the interior walls with poly. While that dried, I worked on assembling the main storage for the cabin.

I still need to stain the front, and cut out the holes, but it turned out pretty much how I planned.

 

[reaver]

The aftermath of this weekend is as follows...

Got the front of the main interior storage stained:

After putting on a second coat of stain, we then glued and pin nailed it to the front of the main storage. After it dried, we managed to slide it onto the supports:

We the focused on building the rear galley cabinets.

I forgot to take pictures of the counter supports, but cutting voids out, allowing for me to get my arm in there to run wires and water lines, leaves them weighing only a couple of lbs, at most.

We put those in, making sure we had room to clear the door frame, and glued and screwed them to the floor.

We the put the counter top on, and started working on the upper cabinets.

Got them cut, routed, glued and stapled, and set in place, prior to staining.

Very happy with them!

That's it for now. The goal next weekend is to get the spars and sidewall skins on, and start running wires!

 

[reaver]

Got a whole bunch of small stuff knocked out that needed to be done before we put the outer side skins on today, as well as the headliner skins.

Galley is stained, and temporary switch plate is in.

These four switches control the water pump, tank anti freeze mat, overhead lights, and part lights.

Dave got all the insulation cut for the sidewalls while I was working on the galley.

We also let the girls draw all over the side of the skeletons. Nobody will ever see it, but they loved it, and we all know it's there.

I then proceeded to start working on figuring out how the latches were going to work on the cabinet doors.

The latches have just enough room to catch, and keep the doors from opening.

I guess I can order the other 4 now.

I still need to pull the door off, and decide if I want to stain it, or keep it naturally colored. And round the corners, but I now have a template for the other 3 doors.

The last thing we did was worked on the front overhead storage.

Got the face stained earlier in the day, and got it all assembled.

You can see a void in the skeleton on the left side... This is mirrored on the right side. These will get aluminum panels that house a 12v socket on each side. This will allow us to plug in the cpaps, and leave them up there. That way we don't have to pack theme up everytime we move.

The holes on the front are for switches and usb charger outlets.

Today, we start putting the final skins on the outer wall, and putting in the head liner.