Hiker Trailer Inspired 5x10 Foamie Design

[Falco-4]

Hey all!

Like do many others, I've spent lot of hours looking over the menu outstanding builds on here. I've wanted to build a small foamie camper for several years and finally decided to jump in. After see on here that the HF 5x10 trailers were still available to order, I got one ordered and it should be here by early July.

I'm at a stage where I could really benefit from the expert eyes of those of you who have built campers before, so I welcome you thoughts and critiques. I hope you'll stick with me for what I'm sure is going to be a long first post.

Here are my design and use goals for this build. A design pdf is attached as well.

1. Weight: My primary tow vehicle is a 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid which has a max capacity of 2000# with trailer brakes or 1650# without. My goal is to keep the build weight under 1000# to give plenty of cushion.

2. Size: The trailer needs to have enough space for 2 adults (my wife and I) and 2 kids. I had pretty much decided that a 5x10 is needed to get to this. My current plan is a full size mattress for the adults and a bunk that will give 2 beds that are 24" wide by almost 5ft long, and have about 2 feet of head space.

3. Use: We enjoy tent camping but my wife is not a fan of sleeping on the ground due to her having scoliosis. We don't camp a ton, and don't expect to. A few weekends a year will be typical. We are just looking for a step above tent camping.

4. Budget: Given our limited use, we can't break the bank on this for a couple trips a year. I'm tentatively aiming to stay under $5000, but there's some cushion to go over that.

5. Finish: This has been my biggest hesitation on a foamie build. We don't need a Cadillac, but I know neither my wife or I will be happy unless it looks decent and can handle normal use. I heavily considered building composite panels and using angle aluminum for assembly, but I've decided the weight and cost just aren't worth it, so I'm planning to still with the tried and true foam and PMF.

The Design

So here is my plan:
- 5x10 HF frame
- Hiker shaped box with just a bit of front curve to maximize space but not just have a box
- 24" wide Bunk located against the front wall.
-Full size mattress
- 17"-18" left for the Galley. Mostly just storage and a bit of counter space. A folding table or two will provide a better elevated cooking area. Openings in the galley wall will let cubies be used for clothes, gear, or to reach that midnight snack.
- 26x36 doors (bought not built) on both sides. Location is not ideal, as they fall at the head of the full size bed. I welcome thoughts on this. I could fix this by moving the bunk back to the galley wall, but I'll lose access to the galley plus shift more weight rearwards.
- Matching windows on each side
- Large swing open galley door (48"x40"). Anyone have good drawings/designs for building a door like this?

Construction plan:

It feels like every build journal I read is so different, I've struggled to lock in on exactly how to put this together. However, here's my current thoughts for the main structure. Again, thoughts, corrections, and critiques are welcome!

1. PMF wrapping the full structure.
a) Wash and iron canvas
b) Sand, wallpaper roller, and clean foam
c) Apply 100% TB2 to foam
d) After adhered, apply 50/50 TB2 with water to saturate canvas.
e) paint with quality exterior latex primer (possibly thinned with water)
f) Apply final exterior paint finish
g) Sand after diluted TB2 and after each primer/paint coat
2. 2" XPS for the full box, foam to foam all butt joints with great stuff for adhesive, same for all wall and roof joints since over 4x8 sheet size
3. 1/8" ply laminated to the foam. Maybe FRP in the galley. Will likely laminate before attaching walls/roof. Testing adhesive now
4. Foam floor with PMF exterior. Blocks inset at bolt points with great stuff, 1/8" covers bolt heads.

For the interior walls(bunk and galley) I plan to follow similar methods but use 1 3/4 XPS with 1/8" ply on both sides to make a 2 inch panel. I do think I'll inset these slightly to the walls and floor. I hope these will provide additional vertical stability.

I'll add some type of hard points for mounting doors and windows, I'm leaving towards embedded 1/2 plywood about 2 inches wider than the opening.

Finally, I really would like to have a 270 degree awning. Given the light weight and limited framing, I'm thinking of building an aluminum frame that attaches to the trailer frame (it has a mounting track that I think will be useful). I also think I would avoid a free standing awning. Does anyone have the original batwing from rhino rack, they are stupid cheap now that the new ones are out and I'm thinking about getting one.

 

[Tony Latham]

26x36 doors (bought not built) on both sides. Location is not ideal, as they fall at the head of the full size bed. I welcome thoughts on this. I could fix this by moving the bunk back to the galley wall, but I'll lose access to the galley plus shift more weight rearwards.

It's obvious that you've been thinking about this project for a while.

I think you're giving up a lot by having access (a pass-through?) to the galley.

It won't be fun getting in and out where your doors are. Someone once included this in a book about building teardrops:

Door placement is critical. Put this book down for a moment and go lie on your bed. Now sit up and swing your legs off as if you’re getting up–but sit there for a moment. Note that this is the same place that you sat on the edge of the bed before you lay down. Your pelvis will be about 30 - 33” from the headboard. This is where the doors need to be–right next to where your hips rest when lying down and where you normally sit on your bed.

That location makes it easy to get in and out of the traditional teardrop, and one reason why it's withstood the test of time.

I've been teardropping for over two decades, and having a passthrough once in a blue moon would be nice as in once or twice a year. But I believe it's a waste of galley space–and interior storage space. A door works just fine for handing off coffee or something else.

The other thing, your kiddos will outgrow those bunks. Three years, maybe? Perhaps they are old enough to have their own camping adventure in a tent?

A friend addressed his kid's camping challenge this way:

I don't build foamies, and I'm unfamiliar with how they are bolted to the chassis. But you could glue the floor block to the underside of the 1/8" ply and use carriage bolts that are set on top of the floor. You'll never feel the heads through the mattress.

Good luck, your family is in for a treat.

Tony

 

[Falco-4]

It's obvious that you've been thinking about this project for a while.

I think you're giving up a lot by having access (a pass-through?) to the galley.

It won't be fun getting in and out where your doors are. Someone once included this in a book about building teardrops:

Door placement is critical. Put this book down for a moment and go lie on your bed. Now sit up and swing your legs off as if you’re getting up–but sit there for a moment. Note that this is the same place that you sat on the edge of the bed before you lay down. Your pelvis will be about 30 - 33” from the headboard. This is where the doors need to be–right next to where your hips rest when lying down and where you normally sit on your bed.

That location makes it easy to get in and out of the traditional teardrop, and one reason why it's withstood the test of time.

I've been teardropping for over two decades, and having a passthrough once in a blue moon would be nice as in once or twice a year. But I believe it's a waste of galley space–and interior storage space. A door works just fine for handing off coffee or something else.

The other thing, your kiddos will outgrow those bunks. Three years, maybe? Perhaps they are old enough to have their own camping adventure in a tent?

A friend addressed his kid's camping challenge this way:

I don't build foamies, and I'm unfamiliar with how they are bolted to the chassis. But you could glue the floor block to the underside of the 1/8" ply and use carriage bolts that are set on top of the floor. You'll never feel the heads through the mattress.

Good luck, your family is in for a treat.

Tony

Tony,

Your comments on many posts are what raised my concerns about the door placement. The bunk will likely end up moved to the galley wall, as your concern is exactly what I've been thinking.

We should get a good few years out of the bunks. We are in the process of adopting newborn twin girls, so hopefully we get several years before they outgrow the 5' wide bunk! Once they do, a tent for the kids is probably what we will do. I think our bunk will be very similar to the one in the video.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Tony Latham]

We are in the process of adopting newborn twin girls, so hopefully we get several years before they outgrow the 5' wide bunk!

Incredible!

Tony

 

[ghcoe]

Read through my #1 build it might answer some questions. Only thing I would change on that build if I were to do it again is omit a lot of the flashing work I did. Just too much work and not much benefit.

A couple things I'll point out is:

Do away with the foam in the floor like that. I would just use OSB/Plywood for the floor. If you want insulation down there just glue on scrap pieces of XPS foam to the bottom of the OSB/Plywood once you get the body on the trailer.

Don't wash and iron the canvas. Use the shrinking of the canvas to your advantage. Read #1.

You don't want the PMF directly in contact with the trailer frame.

1/8 plywood will add a lot of weight fast. I would delete it and use indoor/carpet over PMF. Much nicer to roll up against in the middle of the night.

If you're thinking about a roof vent... Don't

Looks like you are planning some dado work. That is great! Check out page 5 on my #2 build on how I installed shelves in my build. Also, I used dado's in #1. I use a hot wire, but other tools will work. Just beware of the pink blizzard!

You can purchase large premade rear hatches too. Or you can check out how I did my hatch on #1. Works fantastic.

Good luck! George.

#1 #1
#2 #2

 

[Falco-4]

Hey George,

Thanks for the advice. I've read lots of bits and pieces from your builds, but have to admit I haven't made it through 100% of all 5! I do have a few follow up questions you might be able to help with (And I did get through #1 this evening!)

Only thing I would change on that build if I were to do it again is omit a lot of the flashing work I did. Just too much work and not much benefit.

Could you tell me more? I was considering using some flashing as hard point and trim like you did. Are there places you'd still use it and what places would you avoid or do something different?

You don't want the PMF directly in contact with the trailer frame.

Why is that? It seems like many builds do and I think mine will have to contact the frame on the side rails at least because I'm building at the trailers width. I have been uncertain what to use for the bottom surface though. Is your go to still OSB with some type of waterproof coating?

Looks like you are planning some dado work. That is great! Check out page 5 on my #2 build on how I installed shelves in my build. Also, I used dado's in #1. I use a hot wire, but other tools will work.

I really like the jigs you did in #1. I've wanted to do hotwire but was worried about wire material to use, how to hold the wire, etc. I think your details have me convinced I can do it. I have an RC battery charger that even has a mode to control power output just for hotwire, I've just never tried it! I especially lined that you glued the cut pieces back into the wire channels!

You can purchase large premade rear hatches too. Or you can check out how I did my hatch on #1.

I pretty much convinced I'm doing a left handed swing open rear door. My design is planned with the Vintage Technologies door, but at almost $800... Yikes... Do you know of anyone else selling anything similar sized?

Again, thanks for the advice and for all the knowledge you've shared here on the forums! I hope my PMF looks half as good as yours!

 

[Pmullen503]

.............

I pretty much convinced I'm doing a left handed swing open rear door. My design is planned with the Vintage Technologies door, but at almost $800... Yikes... Do you know of anyone else selling anything similar sized?

Again, thanks for the advice and for all the knowledge you've shared here on the forums! I hope my PMF looks half as good as yours!

I did that on mine and I regret it. First, unless the door is very light, the weight when open tends to rack the square back. Foam alone can't handle the weight. Second, unless you hinge it properly and have enough room to secure it firmly against the side when it's open, the wind will whip it around. I rapidly switched my hinges to swing 270 degrees and even then it hits the fender.

I'll be converting mine to a top hinged, foam and PMF door with a thin wood perimeter and no window.

 

[Falco-4]

I did that on mine and I regret it. First, unless the door is very light, the weight when open tends to rack the square back. Foam alone can't handle the weight. Second, unless you hinge it properly and have enough room to secure it firmly against the side when it's open, the wind will whip it around. I rapidly switched my hinges to swing 270 degrees and even then it hits the fender.

I'll be converting mine to a top hinged, foam and PMF door with a thin wood perimeter and no window.

I have had concerns about whether framing would be strong enough for a door like that. I might wait to make a final decision until I start getting things put together. I'd eventually like to do a 270° awning (on an exterior frame of the trailer) and worry that between the awning and my 6 foot height, a top hinge might be tight.

 

[Pmullen503]

How about 2 barn doors right and left? That reduces and balances the weight of the doors. The width is less too so they can fold flat against the sides when open.

 

[ghcoe]

Flashing was just too much work. I still use if for the front edges of my shelves and for inside clamping rings for windows/doors that don't come with a clamp ring.

The PMF will sand through the paint on the trailer creating rust and I would assume eventually the PMF will fail exposing the OSB to water. Having the floor right on the trailer also creates a moisture trap, which is bad for metal and PMF/OSB. I installed 1"x2" wood strips on top of the trailer crossmembers to lift the body up. Then I installed dry wall end flashing around the edges of the foamie cover the gap between the trailer and the floor. The flashing also works great as a drip edge. This keeps water from running down the sides of the trailer and then underneath where it can accumulate and cause more issues.

You can keep your eyes out for door here Affordable RVing. I have seen the big cargo doors here from time to time. Shipping was not too bad for what I have purchased from them.

Ebay is another good place. I have had good luck with finding odd stuff there. Here is a example right now https://www.ebay.com/itm/2868098372...Q0Bb2Ix00d/fiEOBxG0sUJ4Bvw==|tkp:BFBMyNfmhtJn.
Just have to keep your eyes open for what you want. Might have to change a bit though. Sometimes what you want is a inch or two off from standard size. Either it will never show up or if it does cost way too much. Move a inch or two and you'll see them often and they will be much more economical.

Hope that helps!

 

[Falco-4]

How about 2 barn doors right and left? That reduces and balances the weight of the doors. The width is less too so they can fold flat against the sides when open.

I like the idea but worry about getting a good seal between two doors. The back is definitely a place I've got to keep thinking and looking at some different ways of doing it. Maybe I can make something work with a super light foam and PMF door...

The flashing also works great as a drip edge. This keeps water from running down the sides of the trailer

I've seen mention of this several places and think I'll plan to do this. So after canvassing and wrapping the bottom edge, you're just gluing the drip edge to the bottom of your floor right? What are you attaching it with?

I like that eBay hatch. I'll have to think about whether it will work with the hatch idea I have.

 

[Falco-4]

As I start collecting pieces and parts, and wait for the trailer to be delivered to my local HF, I've also been thinking about electrical setup and am looking for some experienced thoughts. Am I missing anything vital? Overcomplicating things?

My goals for power are to provide lights, power the roof vent, and a place to plug in phones. I plan to locate a 100ah LiFePO battery in a tongue box. From the battery in go to a main fuse/shut-off, then to a fuse panel, all in the tongue box. From there I'll run wiring through the back of the box/front of the camper. I'm planning to have the following circuits:

1) 4 flush mount puck lights into the ceiling of the cabin with switches by the doors
2) 2 of the puck lights in the bunks, one in each bunk ceiling with switches on the bunk
3) 2 reading lights on the headboard wall
3) 2 USB multi port outlets, 1 on each sidewall
3) 2 bunk USB multi port outlets, mounted on the bunk wall
4) 3 porch lights, 1 at each side door, 1 at the back door
5) 1 12v outlet at the galley
6) 1 USB multi port at the galley
7) Maxxair Fan

In terms of shore power, I only see two possible needs

1) power to run on board charger for the battery
2) I can see potential installing a window ac in the future.

With this limited use, in thinking I'll just follow the super simple way and have a plug for my charger and a second for any future needs. Super Simple Electrical System

Also I've been brainstorming a name for the camper and I'm leaving towards 'BeeHive'. I started sketching some ideas of the paint job and had AI refine it somewhat. Thoughts on feasibility and look of something like this?

 

[Tony Latham]

1) 4 flush mount puck lights into the ceiling of the cabin with switches by the doors

I think that's a bit overboard. The interior of a teardrop/squaredrop really only needs one light. It's a tiny container. Also, it's much simpler to install a light that has its own switch, which works just fine. When you get into a teardrop, it's not like a bedroom where the light is out of reach, and you need a switch near the door. With a 5' wide camper, the light is 2-1/2' from either entryway. Open the door, and hit the switch.

Just my thoughts,

Tony

 

[ghcoe]

I've seen mention of this several places and think I'll plan to do this. So after canvassing and wrapping the bottom edge, you're just gluing the drip edge to the bottom of your floor right? What are you attaching it with?

I use caulking between the body and the edging. I use truss screws to attach the edging to the floor from the bottom. Then I wipe off the squeezed-out caulking.

 

[ghcoe]

Three ways I run my wires.

In #1 you have read how I did the channels for the wiring. Simple and works, just some extra work to fair out the channels to the wall when done.

On most builds I come up from the floor into the door cutout and then to the switch cut out from the door cutout. On my square drops I only put one light above the door which again I just drill from the door cutout to that location. I use shallow switch boxes from Lowes for light and switch locations.

To add to wiring in the ceiling I have drilled up from the door into a 1" sheet of XPS and then channeled the wire locations. Once wires are in place I laid another 1" sheet of XPS on top of that. Pictures below for better explanation.

 

[Falco-4]

I think that's a bit overboard.

I thought it might be. I'll probably reduce the number then and I'll think about switches too.

I use caulking between the body and the edging. I use truss screws to attach the edging to the floor from the bottom. Then I wipe off the squeezed-out caulking.

Truss screws being something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grabber...ss-Head-Wood-Screws-5-lb-Pack-23365/203111666

Three ways I run my wires.

In #1 you have read how I did the channels for the wiring. Simple and works, just some extra work to fair out the channels to the wall when done.

On most builds I come up from the floor into the door cutout and then to the switch cut out from the door cutout. On my square drops I only put one light above the door which again I just drill from the door cutout to that location. I use shallow switch boxes from Lowes for light and switch locations.

To add to wiring in the ceiling I have drilled up from the door into a 1" sheet of XPS and then channeled the wire locations. Once wires are in place I laid another 1" sheet of XPS on top of that. Pictures below for better explanation.

I'm thinking I'll hotwire channels for most of it, so I'm glad that worked well. I'm still thinking I'll have 1/8 ply for most of my interior surfaces, so shouldn't need to worry much about smoothing things up.

The idea of 2 layers for the ceiling is great. I'd thought about using two 1 inch layers to make the slight curve in the front easier. Simplify wiring would be another bonus!

 

[ghcoe]

Truss screws being something like this? https://www.homedepot.com/p/Grabber...ss-Head-Wood-Screws-5-lb-Pack-23365/203111666

Yes.