Newbie Looking Leaning Towards a Foamie (My Question Thread)

[jseyfert3]

Okay, I needed to post about this, and I see you posted on my build journal already, covering some of my question. I pulled your quote here so that I'm not filling my build journal with questions though. You comment about brackets over the axle was:

You could leave out the brackets at the axle mount. You have plenty of anchor points with the rest, the wood side rails will tie that xmbr in, and it will be bearing on the steel anyway. IMO, Skip it.

However, before I saw this, as I was falling asleep last night, I realised I had done something wrong. The brackets I had not mounted almost directly over the axle where to hold another 1x4 to keep them at 18" center to center spacing. Look at these pictures and see if you can tell where I messed that up.

Fender (1) by jseyfert3, on Flickr


Fender (2) by jseyfert3, on Flickr

Yup, that's right. I forgot about the damn tires. Didn't help that I didn't have them mounted, if they had been mounted I think the problem would have slammed me in the face while I was measuring. I didn't entirely forget about them, I used the model, determined that the fenders would fit nicely between the 1x4s as planned...when I was planning 2' center to center spacing...

Therefore, I'm left with three options. First, move the brackets around. Second, put in a crossbeam over the axle, screwing it into only the brackets and the floor. This crossbeam would only be able to extend the width of the steel, so it would be a floor support only and would not support the edges and hence the TD, but that probably wouldn't be an issue. Third, put nothing there. I don't like that because that leaves a 3' span, which holds the bottom half of the bed. The bottom half of the bed is not where most of the weight is, but that's still a long gap.

I'm leaning towards option #2, I think the TD itself has plenty of support without the beam, so the beam would be just to support the floor there. It also will be needed to support the battery, which I planned to do an underslung mount just forward of the axle, and possibly my AC, which I'm still considering to mount in the same manner. Do you see any concerns with the beam over the axle just supporting the floor and being one of the battery/AC mounts and not running to the edge, and hence supporting the walls and the 1x4 that runs front to rear? I don't see that being an issue, I just wanted a second opinion.

What did I learn? Keep pushing forward, just make sure you measure when all relavant objects are in place or at least take into account there future presence. Good news is that this is a fairly minor mistake that shouldn't cost any money or much time.

As a partially related observation now that I popped the fender on to measure, I realized that the outer part of the fender sticks out 7.75" from the edge of my frame, which means the outer edge of the 1x4 that runs front to back will be 9.5" out from the edge of the steel, which means my trailer width will be a mimimum of 5'7.5" width, just slightly wider then the 5'5" I was planning for, but it also means I couldn't shrink it by using say, a full XL bed (7" narrower then a queen), because there is the space of the tire + clearance you have to build either on the inside or outside, unless you aren't running a 1x4 the entire length front to back, which would mean a more complicated build. This is not, however, an issue, just a comment. 5'7.5" is find for the width. However, it also means I have to make sure that a 1x4 covering the upper outside of the fender leaves enough room to mount and remove my tires. I believe that is the case but will measure once I get my bearings and seals and get the hubs assembled and placed on the trailer. Then I will mock up the 1x4 on the edge of the fender and try removing/mounting the tire.

 

[Mary C]

As my mentor would say Did you leave the bolts where the tire would come up and scrub against them?

I put my bolts in from the underside so if I did hit a bump and the tire did bounce up it would not hit the extended bolt and blow the tire. Just a hint.

Mary C.

 

[jseyfert3]

As my mentor would say Did you leave the bolts where the tire would come up and scrub against them?

I put my bolts in from the underside so if I did hit a bump and the tire did bounce up it would not hit the extended bolt and blow the tire. Just a hint.

Mary C.

Thank you Mary, that's a very good point.

I went out and measured, and there is about at least 3" of space between the top of the tire and the fender, and the bolts stick out a bit more then 1/2". But, the shocks can only compress about 2" before the top of the U-bolts hit the axle mount, which would stop the axle before the tire hit the bolts.

I was thinking that I may just attach the fenders to the floor of the teardrop with bolts in the corners of the flat area, that way the bolts are a long way from the tire, plus the fender brackets put the fender top about 4" off the top of the steel, it can't be more then 3.5" because that's the height of my 1x4's. Without the pointing bolts, I should be able to drop the fender at least an inch from stock to allow it to fit under the floor with 1/2" or so of insulation to prevent condensation on the inside during the winter.

 

[KCStudly]

Slow down a minute and think a little slower.

Let's recap: 1) you have several threads going all at the same time and it is getting confusing. There's nothing wrong, IMO, with asking for help in your build thread. If you don't get an answer, or one that makes sense to you, sure, ask in general or tips (either way, be sure to link them to make it convenient for the reader); 2) you are trying to build your floor flat with the ply supported just above the fenders; and 3) at 18 inches on center you have a xmbr that lands where the fender support and wheel are.

So I am assuming that you will use two (or more) partial pieces of ply to get the 57+ inch width with a seam 3x18=48 inches from the back, landing on one of the xmbrs and you want to extend the xmbrs wider so that the outer wooden rail passes by the outside of the fender.

Why not header behind the fender longitudinally along the frame rail on each side using the same 1x4 (...or was 1x3?), then 'T' the short xmbr into these headers. Like this...

This gives you the option of cutting the outside rail down or out completely in front of the wheel (remember that the wall supports the floor, not the other way around). That way you could change the shape of the wheel arch more to your liking and ditch the little fenders. just be sure to protect the inner fender well... well ... 'er... well.

BobHenry had a tire cut down by one of those bolts. Maybe he had the larger tires, but don't forget that in the real world there are dynamics involved that you can't measure statically; centripetal tire growth, load and impact deflections, perhaps other factors. I like the idea of moving the fender fasteners away from the tread, but the fewer holes you put in your box, the less likely you are to have water get in and rot. The wheel wells need special attention because they will be constantly abused by sand, pebbles and flung water trying to attack your attempts to seal.

 

[rowerwet]

one cheap way to make wheel well liners, cut a plastic 55 gallon drum, with a heat gun you can make it almost any shape you want, and keep it hidden under the trailer.

 

[jseyfert3]

Slow down a minute and think a little slower.

Yes, you are right, I need to do that. I usually think at 100 MPH though all over the place, and not always in the right places, like when I decided to space the crossbeams at 18" center to center. I'll try to slow it down and focus on one thing till I think about everything I need to think about for that particular topic.

Let's recap: 1) you have several threads going all at the same time and it is getting confusing. There's nothing wrong, IMO, with asking for help in your build thread. If you don't get an answer, or one that makes sense to you, sure, ask in general or tips (either way, be sure to link them to make it convenient for the reader); 2) you are trying to build your floor flat with the ply supported just above the fenders; and 3) at 18 inches on center you have a xmbr that lands where the fender support and wheel are.

1) That is correct, and I can understand that. I was just trying to follow the directions, as the build journal section states:

...ask your questions in the appropriate forums BUT document your build here...preferably in a single thread...dates for updates, are appreciated....

Now I do intend to link questions into the build thread, and I admit I haven't been very good doing that. However, that is why I did not ask the question in my build thread.

2 & 3) That is also correct.

So I am assuming that you will use two (or more) partial pieces of ply to get the 57+ inch width with a seam 3x18=48 inches from the back, landing on one of the xmbrs and you want to extend the xmbrs wider so that the outer wooden rail passes by the outside of the fender.

The seam does not need to be 48 inches from the back. Because of the xmbrs running aross the trailer, I figured that I would use an entire sheet of OSB, lined up on one side. It's 8' long, which is what I want. To get 57" wide, I'd cut a 9" wide, 8' piece off the other one, and use the rest of the sheet to make some of the galley walls/shelves.

Why not header behind the fender longitudinally along the frame rail on each side using the same 1x4 (...or was 1x3?), then 'T' the short xmbr into these headers. Like this...
<Snipped picture to reduce quote size>

This gives you the option of cutting the outside rail down or out completely in front of the wheel (remember that the wall supports the floor, not the other way around). That way you could change the shape of the wheel arch more to your liking and ditch the little fenders. just be sure to protect the inner fender well... well ... 'er... well.

That is a great idea. In fact, it looks somewhat familiar... I think I'm going to go do a little more research tonight. Not because your floor idea won't work, because it'll work great. But because that general shape looks somewhat familiar, although the ones I've seen like that have raised wheel wells, IIRC. And if I had slowed down a little, I may have remembered that I had seen something like that before.

Hmm, of course a wall would be very stiff, it's just a tall skinny beam. Although I wasn't thinking of it like that, I was thinking of a stiff, lightweight box sitting on top of a floor. Also the ability to get rid of that 1x4 between the two cross xmbrs means I'm not limited in how it looks or have restricted access to the tire.

BobHenry had a tire cut down by one of those bolts. Maybe he had the larger tires, but don't forget that in the real world there are dynamics involved that you can't measure statically; centripetal tire growth, load and impact deflections, perhaps other factors. I like the idea of moving the fender fasteners away from the tread, but the fewer holes you put in your box, the less likely you are to have water get in and rot. The wheel wells need special attention because they will be constantly abused by sand, pebbles and flung water trying to attack your attempts to seal.

Ouch. And good point, tires have some crazy loads implyied on them while they are in motion. And yes, I agree holes in the wood in the wheel wells may not be the best idea.

one cheap way to make wheel well liners, cut a plastic 55 gallon drum, with a heat gun you can make it almost any shape you want, and keep it hidden under the trailer.

Hmm, I can get those fairly locally for $15 each, they are perpetually on Craigslist around here. Also they would protect a larger area then the stock fenders.

Okay, thank you both for the information. At this point, there is nothing further I can do on my trailer, until I buy wood or my bearings and seals come in. I think I will use this time to slow down a bit, think carefully on my next few steps, and also take my mind off it for a bit by working on one of my other projects or making a hot wire cutter for the foam I'll be buying. I should also review my bookmarks folder for teardrops, I made a bunch of them, but I can't even remember what they are all about. Probably relavent information I'll need in the future.

 

[GPW]

JS, you’ll find the more you hang around here how Simple this all is...BUT it does need to be done with a certain Order and Method...much as with any other building project ...
Take your time , PLAN ahead !!!! A Foamie’ is the “Thinking man’s" trailer ...Ladies too ...

 

[jseyfert3]

JS, you’ll find the more you hang around here how Simple this all is...BUT it does need to be done with a certain Order and Method...much as with any other building project ...
Take your time , PLAN ahead !!!! A Foamie’ is the “Thinking man’s" trailer ...Ladies too ...

I will. I'm taking a short break because I cannot work on it right now (I need wood to start the sub-frame).

In the meantime, I got around to looking around at what I need to wire up a 200 Amp AC welder I got for free (not related to the TD), and I planned what smoke and CO detectors I'm going to get for my house. Once I get my tax refund (should be tomorrow), I'm going to order the detectors and wiring needed to wire them all up, and put some aside to use on my TD. I'll then continue on, having taken a break and had time to research and plan a little more, starting with the 1x4 sub-frame.

 

[rowerwet]

I built a sub floor for my tear at first, after that I figured out it is just wasted weight and height, my tear floor deck sits right on the trailer now, unless you have an overhang of more than 6" plywood can support it self just fine. Unless you will be walking around on it instead of just lying down

 

[GPW]

A simple floor could use just two stout cross members Inside the cabin , front and back , to support the floor and moderate overhang (like Row said ^ ) ...especially with a Foamie' which has much lighter cabin weight , so therefore less stress on the floor ... No real need for all that frame lumber and clips ...

 

[GPW]

...sorta’ like this ...

 

[rowerwet]

the front wall and foot wall in a normal shaped tear, do all the floor support you need, just like GPW showed, only with the rear floor cross piece located at the foot of the bed.
just make sure all the joints are fully glued, screws and nails are strong, but good construction adhesive can't be beaten.

 

[jseyfert3]

Well, the main reason for all the lumber was to raise the floor high enough to build over the wheels without having interior wheelwells, which would have taken away the option to use a standard queen sized spring matress. Had I built within the width of the tires, or decided to trim a foam mattress to fit inside wheelwells, then I would have skipped using the frame and place the floor directly on the trailer. But first and formost the 1x4 frame is to raise the floor to clear the tires (3.5" is just about right for that).

 

[rowerwet]

I have internal wheel wells, I just squeeze the mattress to get in between them, not every mattress will take that. the extra height may take a few MPG off depending on your TV, but it really comes down to what you want.

 

[GPW]

QUOTE: "Well, the main reason for all the lumber was to raise the floor high enough to build over the wheels without having interior wheelwells,”

Js, I did exactly the same thing on my Foamie #1 and the FoamStream .... No worries ...

 

[atahoekid]

I did the same with the Road Foamie. It's great having that underbed storage area except my wife has seemingly made it her mission to fill it up with stuff. I intentionally just throw stuff under there so it fills up faster. I don't want or need more crap when we go camping.

 

[GPW]

How much clearance do we really need ??? Between tire and floor ... How much “travel” do we really have with the springs ...??? I know there are a lot of variables , weight , spring rate, "ballast" etc. Just looking for a “general” minimum clearance figure ??? I know we could test this Old School ...(take it for a ride, check for rubbing) ...

 

[kudzu-TNT]

GPW, I think you need more clearance in than a lot of the rest of us. Some of those NOLA pot holes are BIG.

 

[GPW]

K’, just my street alone will be a “test” ... potholes , washboard , a nasty old gravel road .. If I can get down that , we’ll pretty much keep to the highway after ...that’s not “so” bad... And I’ll take it easy as usual ... might even get daring , take it up to 50 mph on the smooth bits (of which there are few) ... I’ve got basically 1.5” clearance now , but even with the wife and my friend in the trailer I can’t see any spring deflection... I may get a rub ... may not ...don’t know ... another “test” and something to improve later on ... That’s the Great thing around here , if you don’t know , then test it out , and if it works , tell everybody .... and if it it Doesn’t work , be Sure to tell everybody !!!

 

[jseyfert3]

QUOTE: "Well, the main reason for all the lumber was to raise the floor high enough to build over the wheels without having interior wheelwells,”

Js, I did exactly the same thing on my Foamie #1 and the FoamStream .... No worries ...

I figured someone had, good too know.

I wish I had more motivation, I'll probably start working in a bit. Today is my day off, or it's supposed to be. I'm working from 6 pm to 2 am today because someone couldn't make it in with the snow. Learning that kind of sapped my motivation to work.

I did manage to get five of the 1x4's cut this morning, and put them into position to see what it would be looking like.

1x4 Crossbeams Cut by jseyfert3, on Flickr

I also took a trip to HD intending to get a Ryobi circular saw, did not after I saw how much Ryobi cheapened the new models. They put plastic blade guards on the new models instead of metal, and thinned up the base of the saw. I'll either get an older, sturdier refurbished Ryobi from CPO Outlets or a Skilsaw. I did pick up some no rust or corrosion lifetime warranty Deckmate #8 x 2" screws to assemble the 1x4s, and a set of Ryobi forstner bits to drill out a bolt head hole where two of the 1x4s lay over bolts.

I need to re-assembled my welder though, took it apart to verify power requirements before buying a 240 V outlet. You can see the case laying down behind my trailer, I need that space clear before I can assemble the 1x4s.

Also would have been nice to get my bearings, but USPS tracking still sucks. The USPS expected delivery date was Friday the 14th. Last tracking on the 12th said they were processed through a sorting station in Baltimore...and here I thought that USPS tracking was getting better, silly me. If I ever get them, I can put the wheels on and can roll the trailer around to get better access to one side or the other. Not a lot of room in a one car garage when you can't move it easily. I should probably order one of the $30 Reese rolling hitch jacks too, so I don't have to prop the hitch up on something all the time.

Gonna get really snug in my garage when I start getting the walls on, which hopefully should be soon. Waiting on the mail for all this stuff I've needed is killing me slowly...

I still want this done by the end of March, if I can. I'm terribly aware of how soon that seems, but it also seems like once the trailer parts that will be visible are painted and I've got the floor in place and I can use the trailer to get wood and foam, that the majority will fall together fairly quickly...at least enough to be livable by April, I can always do some of the interior details at a later time...

Gonna go work on it again for about an hour, if I get anywhere I'll post in the build thread tonight, but I don't expect much to get done until tomorrow.