Perseverance

[GPW]

Ahem !!! " Unlike cotton fabrics where water can alter its properties " My cotton fabric was well glued , and painted and has lasted 10+ years sitting Outside , through the local deluges and Hurricanes...
As we found out (the hard way) most commercial trailers barely last out their short warranties ...

 

[tomhawk]

Ahem !!!

I was talking about the canvas before it has been properly glued and painted. Getting unwashed new canvas wet will likely shrink it.
I agree this would certainly not be the case after it was glued and painted.

I mounted the spare under the tongue. I used a scrap piece of 1.5" angle, two 1/2" bolts with some old bicycle inner tube segments for pads to secure the wheel. This increased the tongue weight to nearly 100 lb. This exceeds the recommended 15% total weight but is well below the maximum weight for my tow vehicle. It seemed, if anything, to improve the trailer tracking on the freeway probably since it boosted the trailer weight.

The hatch is attached with an ordinary stainless piano type hinge.
To deal with water flowing through the piano hinge supporting the hatch I made a flap to cover the hinge area from the overhanging edge of the canvas covering the rear roof foam segment. Note the hole where the drainage from the under hinge gutter can exit.

Once the canvas paint dried, the fenders were bolted on and the side running lights were installed.
With no further excuses, we went on our first camping trip!!!
It had been nearly 5 years after starting this project.

From 10 feet it looked OK. From further away it looks a bit better.

Far away, even better!

Needless to say, work on the trailer was not finished.

Tom

 

[jakejakejake]

As we found out (the hard way) most commercial trailers barely last out their short warranties

Thats no joke! I had a 40' toy hauler in a previous life that I lived in full time traveling for work. The best it ever looked was the day I bought it, and over the course of a couple of years it slowly degraded into a hot pile of garbage. I spent 6 months doing repairs to sell it and get out from underneath it. Now I just feel bad for people with commercial RV's.

With no further excuses, we went on our first camping trip!!!
It had been nearly 5 years after starting this project.

WOOOOOO! Congrats Tom! I am green with envy this morning. I long for the day that my project is complete enough to be able to use it in between finishing all the details.

Spring is just around the corner!

 

[ghcoe]

The gravity issue is certainly aggravating for me when you are trying to glue canvas to underside of an object. It keeps getting unglued. My solution was to use lots of thumbtacks. Flipping over would be a big help. I think my bigger problem was due to canvas shrinkage.
I can imagine if canvas is glued to a convex surface when the canvas shrinks it just compresses itself onto the foam. Others have described this as tightening up the structure. This seems like a desirable feature. On the other hand, when applying canvas to a concave surface, the shrinking canvas is induced to lift off the canvas producing bubbles. I am thinking that shrinking is not a factor in fiber glass? Unlike cotton fabrics where water can alter its properties, glass is an inert matrix?

Tom

I had a bit of that problem too with #1. Once everything is dry I use a syring needle and poke a hole on each side of the delaminated area. Then I inject some 50/50 TBII/water into the bubble through one of the holes. Then I work the solution into the void till it starts to come out the other hole. Might have to work it a few times over a couple hours. The 50/50 mix softens the canvas and makes it flexible again so it can reform to the curve. On my current builds I pre-canvas the interior walls and ceiling panels. Makes things a lot easier.

You build looks great! George.

 

[tomhawk]

On my current builds I pre-canvas the interior walls and ceiling panels. Makes things a lot easier.

I agree this is an important technique to use wherever possible. Applying canvas onto a horizontal surface, with good lighting, makes it easily possible to do a perfect job. When adding to the surfaces on the assembled trailer it can be very awkward. It may be hard to see properly and a ladder or step stool might be needed.

I grew up in an urban area. I had a few possessions walk away. I learned that the nicer something looked, the quicker someone would take it. I have since learned that rural places are no better.

Years ago we visited Amsterdam where bicycle theft is rampant. I noticed people would never consider parking a nice looking bicycle outside. Everyone competed to have the junkiest looking (albeit properly maintained) bike; they last longer. Maybe this trailer is safe?

I am glad I resisted adding more windows. The windows in the doors are plenty for our needs and climate. We don't spend time in the trailer during the day. The plexiglass window panes can be removed for better air flow and stowed between the wall and the cabin mattress.

We bought a rechargeable fan to provide ventilation during warm weather that can be hung on the window space. We have used it only once but it ran all night and still had enough charge for more nights. It has a USB port for charging that allows topping up with electrons en route.

Although the window screens work perfectly to exclude biting bugs, I noticed at the height of summer bug season, there are plenty of very small bugs that can still get through.

To paraphrase JBS Haldane:

"God must have an inordinate fondness for insects. He created so many varieties!"

To weigh the trailer, I lifted each wheel over an ordinary bathroom scale. There will be a small error(2-3%) if the opposite wheel is not raised by the same height to keep the trailer level. The sum of these two weights plus the tongue weight is the total trailer weight. The weight on each wheel was well within the capacity of the scale.

The final total weight of the empty trailer is 510 lb. The weight minus the tongue is 410 lb. Since nearly 60 lb are the wheels, this means the weight supported by the axle is only 350 lb. I can haul plenty of stuff without exceeding the axle rating (800 lb). I am concerned that I should have derated the axle even more. I suspect this axle is still a bit too stiff for the weight of my cabin.

If you have ever noticed an empty boat trailer bouncing down the road behind its tow vehicle, that is what is to be avoided.

A major benefit of low weight is the ease of setting up a camp site. Either my wife or I can lift the tongue and maneuver the trailer as needed by hand to the optimal parking location.

Our current vehicle is a 2011 Toyota Sienna with a towing capacity of 1500 lb. On our first few trips I was very apprehensive as we drove faster and thus avoided interstates. In time, fears were overcome and I discovered that the trailer tows nicely at speeds over 70 MPH. On our trip to the Grand Tetons in late summer 2022, we got over 18 MPG (about 10% reduction). We had no trouble passing slower vehicles over 9,000' mountain passes. I am feeling confidant that when we downsize to a new vehicle we will have many choices in models that will be able to tow such a light trailer.

Getting ready for this trip, I discovered another feature about the Dexter axle. I have repacked many a bicycle hub with grease. Lubing the trailer hubs was much easier. No dissembling needed. You just squirt some grease into the grease fitting. That alone already justified much of the extra cost of the chassis.

I am noticing some damage to the fender paint job from road grit and pebbles. I am happy with my choice of "jeep" style fenders. The flat surface comes in handy when you least expect it. After a three day journey from Iowa, when we rolled into our camp site in the Tetons, the license plate fell off. Other than that, this trailer is holding up perfectly.

The canvas-foam composite structure is remarkable. It is really sturdy. However, I hope we don't test a deer impact.
That clearly replaces the frozen turkey at 60mph as a menace.

The temps dropped into the high 20s F some nights in Jackson Hole. This was not unexpected as I had experienced snow there in August. We were very comfortable, surrounded by 2 inches of foam insulation. Each person at rest produces 100 watts of heat. It is a bit shocking to open the door in the morning to feel the temperature difference between inside and out and see ice in the water jugs left on the picnic table.

Tom

 

[GPW]

 

[tomhawk]

As noted elsewhere these trailers are never "done". They are works in progress.

Gas Struts
Initially I used some sticks to prop the galley hatch. Gas struts seemed like a great improvement. I tried to figure out a way to determine what was needed for this. I think this involves some vector and torsion geometry calculations that are beyond my ability or patience to solve. There are web sites that claim to provide calculators for strut selection that were beyond my comprehension. It ended up being almost trial and error.

Oversimplifying, I reasoned the lifting power of the gas strut needs to be enough to raise the hatch by overcoming the torque at the point of its hatch attachment. The weight on the edge of the hatch extended parallel to the ground was 11 lb. The distance of this edge from the hinge was 54". To provide the torque necessary to overcome gravity, if I placed the strut attachment at 12" from the hinge it would need at least 54/12 x 11 lb = 50 lb of capacity or something like that. The angle of the strut from vertical is probably an important part of this calculation, but I chose to neglect that significant factor.

The distances from that point to the lower attachment point when the the hatch was opened or closed needed to be within the compressed and extended lengths of the strut. I ordered a gas strut with these length and weight properties.

By making small adjustments on the strut attachment spots I found a combination to make the hatch open and close appropriately. The hatch would remain closed when shut, slowly rise when I initiated opening, and remain elevated when opened. In the end, this was yet another example where perseverance overcame incompetence.

The strut attachment point on the upper hatch was part of the hatch plywood skeleton.

The lower attachment point ended up being the wooden galley counter top. Attaching to a wood insert in the foam wall was not robust enough (I tried. See repaired damage in upper left of picture).

My next job was to think more about an electrical system. This is something I should have been more serious about earlier.

Tom

 

[twisted lines]

So I m borrowing this one A little bit

A foam fragment attached under the hinge forms a gutter to channel any water off to the the exterior

 

[tomhawk]

The foam gutter is the idea from ghcoe's #1.

I am thinking of trying this as alternative to the foam gutter. Or maybe even as an addition (think belt plus suspenders). This would be a bicycle inner tube sliced open so it would become a 5 foot long band of rubber. It would be attached under the the length of the hinge spanning the gap between the wood cross pieces. It would channel water leaking past the hinge from above to the exit hole on the side of the hatch top.

Here is a cross section view of my plan:

Has anyone tried something like this?

Tom

 

[Tony Latham]

Struts...I think this involves some vector and torsion geometry calculations that are beyond my ability or patience to solve.

Easy-peasy, thanks to Dan Lott:

https://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=58263&hilit=gas+strut+calculator

Tony

 

[Tony Latham]

It would channel water leaking past the hinge ...

Well... you could use the tried and true hurricane hinge that's been used in teardrops for many decades, eh?

Tony

 

[tomhawk]

I should have given credit to my neighbor. He looked at the sticks I was using to support the raised hatch and said "you need gas struts".

As another after thought, a 40V lawnmower battery provides boon-docking electricity for a 12V and USB power system I installed. This system is described here:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=74583.

The 240 watt-hour lithium batteries weigh together 5 lb. It provided several nights of plentiful light and a few cell phone and fan charges on a single 40V battery charge. When not in the trailer, I use it to mow my lawn.

The battery holder has a step down transformer to give 12 V output. I added two USB ports as well.
I put 12V LED light strips in the cabin and galley.

I like the idea of solar. I have not seen a way to charge these batteries with solar. Most products I have seen are specifically for 12V batteries not 40V.
As it is, I have not depleted the battery charge on trips of several days. Maybe I don't really need solar.

Power tool batteries are certainly not standardized. Each brand has propriety battery chargers. The available products for my battery use only 120-240V AC and too many watts for my anemic inverter. I have seen some descriptions on the web about DIY charging. It all seems like a hack to me. I don't want to destroy my battery.

I am still finding ways to tweak things on the trailer. The thermos holder is an example. It prevents catastrophic spills. We put some shelves in the cabin to hold personal items at night.

We have a compact folding charcoal grill and charcoal chimney. I have been storing the dutch oven in the car. The small fold-up table is nice since it stows well and lets me cook sitting down.

In this picture I am showing a double burner propane stove. We have replaced this with a single burner Coleman model 576 white gas stove purchased new in the 1970s. It saves several pounds, takes up much less space and provides plenty of heat output for two people.

My old white gas stove was a bit unstable when I put a large pot on it. I fabbed up a few pieces of 3/8" nuts, bolts and rebar to yield a much better cooking support.

This disassembles to stow with less space.

Tom

 

[GPW]

When covering the FS , we didn't shrink the 18 oz. canvas we used , and applying the canvas we found we had to allow a foot extra of canvas due to shrinkage , then once shrunk on the trailer , we just trimmed off the excess. Surprising how much the canvas shrunk in the long direction ...
For covering Inside , we just allowed extra or the shrinkage and we had no bubbles.. But we had to keep going back with a small rubber roller , to smooth things out ( PIA ) ... Much better to do the inner covering while the pieces are still unassembled. Then you can just leave some extra on the edges as a flap to join to the other pieces...
Or you can just hang the new canvas on the clothesline and hit it with the water from the garden hose... That will shrink it as it dries in the Sun . Easy !!!

One point ... Covering should be an unhurried job , take your time , make it Neat , and it will look good and last a long time ...

Continued testing with the FS sitting outside for ten years , I'm finding little rot spots to patch , but not a lot of large damage ... ( Drip edges are really great in our humid climate. ). But if your trailer is stored inside and protected from the elements , it should last indefinitely ...

 

[Tony Latham]

He looked at the sticks I was using to support the raised hatch and said "you need gas struts".

Whatever direction you go on this, the hatch props need to lock it in the up position so a gust of wind doesn't catch it and take it over the top.



Tony

 

[tomhawk]

the hatch props need to lock it in the up position so a gust of wind doesn't catch it

Agreed. So far this has not been an issue where we have camped. I am thinking some rope could be attached to the hatch corners that could be attached ad hoc when wind was an issue. In real windy conditions, no matter how you secure the hatch, keeping it closed is going to be the wise move.

I liked the under counter sliding silverware drawer so much I installed another slide out shelf to hold a box that contained other useful cooking items. Both are secured in place by draw latches.

When extended, the tote box can be removed easily and the surface becomes available for cooking/dining activities.

Cost
At this point in the build process, I would estimate we have sunk somewhat under $2000 into this project. I tried, within reason, to make things such as doors rather than buy them. The details mount up. Many items were purchased pre- COVID. There have been increases since then. The chassis components were $730. $130 for a spare tire. $200 for paint and glue. $80 for canvas. $200 for foam. $150 for plywood. Hinges, gas struts, latches, window screen components and other assorted hardware and items were purchased.

I was able to use some odd scraps but mostly it was new material. I bought most material from one or another of the local big chains. A few items not available there were purchased from the big online store. The chassis steel came from the metal store in town. The axle came directly from the manufacturer. I made a forge for bending steel rods and making a few custom parts from an old broiler pan, some kitty litter and an old hairdryer. There will be a few more little projects to spend money, but they will be small.

It is true that it took us several years to bring this into existence. That said, I have been hearing that backlogs are happening for orders of commercial trailers that may take over a year for delivery. Besides, then all you would have is a trailer someone else built.

This is a placard present in several local campgrounds that I have not seen outside the midwest.

Everywhere seems to have hazards. Near the coast they warn about tsunamis.
Yet many scarier hazards don't warrant warnings.

Tom

 

[tomhawk]

On our first long trip traveling to the west, we spent the night at the only forest service campground in Nebraska. Having actual trees, this was a nice place except for the noisy ATVs (with modified mufflers probably) that a few campers incessantly drove around the campground roads. I have since noticed most other campgrounds (federal or state) specifically ban them. The USDA rules forbid: "Operating a motorbike, motorcycle, or other motor vehicle for any purpose other than entering or leaving the site." I think the Nebraska folks chose to interpret this loosely. I did notice a forest service area in Mississippi listing ATV driving as an activity.
We visited a state park campground in Minnesota where folks did joy rides too. Their vehicles were instead electric bikes and scooters. This is a much more considerate activity.

I was surprised they had any forests. In eastern Nebraska there is some farm land almost as lush as in Iowa. Further west, things become less verdant. A bit west of Ogallala NE, this photo better fits my notion of Nebraska.

Tom

 

[tomhawk]

So far, some things I might have done differently on this project:

1. I could have been more careful trimming the canvas as I was gluing edges down. There are several ragged looking spots.
   I had some trouble applying canvas in a few places on the assembled trailer, when I was in a hurry and day light was fading. I should have taken my time and insisted that the work situation was optimal. Nothing structurally unsound, just a cosmetic issue.
   
2. Although most canvas was applied to wall segments before assembly, I had to apply some of the canvas on the inside after the cabin was assembled. This was unavoidable. I should have preshrunk the canvas. Applying canvas to a concave surface is asking for bubbles.
   
3. I should have planned for an electrical system. This is a challenge for new trailer owners. I had no idea what would be useful until I camped a few nights in the trailer. My wiring is ad hoc. I am worried about loose wires becoming disconnected or worse, shorting. Electric lights and fans are a very attractive addition. There are a number of rechargeable devices that are available that make more wiring and power unnecessary. I am thinking the main power draw I can imagine is a refrigerator. I am going to resist this. I have camped for weeks without refrigeration. A cold beer is going to be hard to do without though.
   
4. I still don't know if I should have had my axle specified for an even lower capacity. Mine is derated to 800 lb. It works pretty well but it might still be too stiff. The weight of the cabin and trailer turned out lighter than expected.
   I also failed to appreciate that the tongue weight and wheel weight are excluded from the weight supported by axle.
   A bit lower rated axle might have been better. Items stored in the trailer appear to have been bounced during travel.
   
   This is a definite issue with foamie trailers. Trailers are designed to haul weights within limits. Foamie cabins can easily be too light for the trailers that carry them. If you have ever seen a empty boat trailer bouncing behind its tow vehicle on the freeway, that is what is to be avoided.
   
5. I probably could have saved more weight if I had used some 1/8" plywood for the floor and doors instead of 1/4".
   
6. I should have spent more time designing the fender attachments on the chassis. As it was, it was an afterthought and a time sink. It works fine, but it ought to have been easier to implement.
   
7. I would avoid Great Stuff (I had been warned!).
   
8. When building the rear wall segments that meet with the closed hatch, I should have included a wooden hard spot to attach the bottom gas strut attachment point. Had I planned to use gas struts from the beginning, I could have implemented this easily. As I noted, I ended up using the the wooden galley counter top for this anchor.
   
9. I can imagine that high winds may easily damage an opened galley hatch. Maybe having some safety ropes would be of use to prevent this damage. I will have to think some more about that.
   
10. I have seen some suggestions that the roof should not be perfectly flat but should curve or slant somewhat to shed water. That seems like a good idea that I could have added to my design.

Some things I think worked well for this build:

• Attaching the walls to the floor worked really well. Putting a strip of fabric around the floor that I could wrap up onto the bottom of the walls when they were installed worked very well.
  
• Except my error using great stuff, the doors worked well. Making doors & frames was easier than expected for me.
  
• I am glad I welded the chassis myself.
  
• I am glad I went to the effort to make a curved roof segment.

As it is, this trailer works for me. It is comfortable, it is sturdy, we can prepare meals efficiently, and it tows fine at 70 mph. When we downsize to a smaller car (maybe even electric?), it is light enough to give us many models to choose from able to tow this trailer.

On trips this summer, random campers would stop and inquire about our camper showing genuine interest. One guy bemoaned his many woes due to equipment failures of his behemoth motor home and expressed appreciation for our camping rig.

While infrequent, we have occasionally run into other tiny campers. When we do, it is great fun to have a show and tell session. If you travel with a homebuilt camper, expect to have people show interest.

We have no plans to start another trailer, but you never know...

This shows us camping amongst the giant RVs at Gros Ventre campground in Grand Teton national park. The brown boxes are "bear boxes"; storage to protect food from hungry wandering grizzlies. Quite nearby we saw moose and a small herd(only 50) of buffalo. Traveling to and from Iowa we stayed at several campgrounds with narrow unpaved roads that these large RV would not have been able to negotiate.

Tom

 

[tomhawk]

One goal of our trailer build was to minimize weight. We wanted to be able to tow with a smaller car we may have in the future. We are pleased setting up camp is easier since we can move the trailer to an optimum position by hand with little effort.

One factor to reduce weight is to limit size. Limited space restricts what we can bring along. We can bring more if our stuff is compact.

Here are several cooking items we have purchased or fabricated that fold or disassemble to reduced packed space. Displayed left to right:

• Charcoal Chimney
• Grill and firepit
• Windscreen (in rear)
• Trivet for gas stove or dutch oven
  viewtopic.php?f=44&t=68905#p1225171

Here are all them items packed flat for stowage. I need to finish making some custom bags. They help keep things tidy.

Here is the windscreen in use for cooking pizza in the dutch oven.

Tom

 

[KCStudly]

Cool. Can you say more about the collapsible charcoal starter? Did you make that or buy it? I like the design and would like to buy or make one for myself. Thx.

 

[tomhawk]

There are a number of versions for sale out there. Make sure it is stainless steel. This one was purchased from the big online store. The brandname was Campingmoon. It was the cheapest one. In the rating comments, some complained about the non-insulated wire handles. I have not felt at risk yet. I keep some heavy gloves for handling hot items as well.

My only complaint maybe is that the capacity is too large. If you are lighting fewer than 20 briquettes, they tend to spread out. Since they are not piled on top of each other it takes longer to ignite. I am thinking I will place a piece of expanded steel in the cavity to help the charcoals heap up. For my 8" dutch oven we often only need to light 10-12 briquettes to cook rice or dutch babies.

On the other hand, its large size make it possible to use it for searing just a few items by placing a small grill on top.

I am happy with this model.

Tom