The Memorial F150 Craptor. A semi foamie camper shell camper

[olddawgsrule]

Something occurred to me though, and it sounds wierd, but hear me out. Canvas on these pop tops goes bad eventually. Foamy pop top sides? That would certainly give me the option to have a pass through for a Window AC as well... Probably a stupid idea, but hey, it's mine!

Lots of comments/debates of hard siding the lift top. As fair weather camping, works well. Think rain, blowing rain and the camper is basically open as you lift the top. Probably the biggest con I came up with as I debated side panels. The other is where/how will they store? It's the fold (and area they occupy). Especially the loft (over cab) area.

There's a couple nice examples of systems folks have done out there and I checked out several before I did mine. For what and how we use ours, soft side made more sense. of course down side is the wind and noise a soft side makes... Pro's n Con's of each.

In Texas we passed on camping in The Guadalupe NP due to winds! Couple places in Baja as well. I did leave the top down a couple ties in Baja to survive the winds! Think about that possibility with hard side panels. Could you still?

 

[dbhost]

Something occurred to me though, and it sounds wierd, but hear me out. Canvas on these pop tops goes bad eventually. Foamy pop top sides? That would certainly give me the option to have a pass through for a Window AC as well... Probably a stupid idea, but hey, it's mine!

Lots of comments/debates of hard siding the lift top. As fair weather camping, works well. Think rain, blowing rain and the camper is basically open as you lift the top. Probably the biggest con I came up with as I debated side panels. The other is where/how will they store? It's the fold (and area they occupy). Especially the loft (over cab) area.

There's a couple nice examples of systems folks have done out there and I checked out several before I did mine. For what and how we use ours, soft side made more sense. of course down side is the wind and noise a soft side makes... Pro's n Con's of each.

In Texas we passed on camping in The Guadalupe NP due to winds! Couple places in Baja as well. I did leave the top down a couple ties in Baja to survive the winds! Think about that possibility with hard side panels. Could you still?

Well, the slide in camper does have a futon style sofa that CAN be pressed into service as a bed with the top down. Cramped yes, but would work... Hard sides seem like they would be more durable for the winds...

 

[dbhost]

So the seller of the camper literally was in the town next over to me for the Holiday weekend, and to help a friend run a truck up from Midland TX to here... So he brought the camper with him and had me check it out.

My biggest issue that I told him from the start that was going to be a deal breaker is if it leaked.

It has been raining cats and dogs all day today, and since yesterday. And a good test.

Unfortunately the camper was a leaker, big time.

So back to the Hi Top truck shell camper rig for now. I guess that is just God, the Universe or whatever telling me to finish what I started and then finish up the design for the foamie rig...

In a way that is kind of a relief. Less chance of the HOA pitching a hissy fit.

 

[GPW]

DB, With all the different density foams you can get these days , there's likely many ways to get what you need to get to the "overstuffed armchair smoking a cigar and drinking scotch" part ... I got a friend that just got an Isuzu pup (diesel) and wants a lightweight camper top so he can go hunting in upper Texas... so I sent him here to see what you were doing ( the Hi Top truck shell camper rig ) ...

 

[dbhost]

DB, With all the different density foams you can get these days , there's likely many ways to get what you need to get to the "overstuffed armchair smoking a cigar and drinking scotch" part ... I got a friend that just got an Isuzu pup (diesel) and wants a lightweight camper top so he can go hunting in upper Texas... so I sent him here to see what you were doing ( the Hi Top truck shell camper rig ) ...

Cool.

FWIW, if I were doing an Isuzu P'up, haven't seen one of those in dog years either, the successor to the Chevy Luv though, pretty cool little trucks but I digress...

If I were doing a compact truck, I would build the platform to utilize the entire truck bed. I don't think there is enough width in there for a twin mattress AND an aisle.

HOWEVER... I am using a twin bed. So Twin is as small as I am willing to go.

Even before my BMI went up, my shoulders were too wide for say a Therm A Rest. If your friend can comfortably use a narrower mattress, there are cut down sizes available. I think Mike A.K.A. Crazy Quady is using a 24" wide mattress that would be perfect for a mini truck with asisle...

I just heard from my mechnaic. Minor delay due to health, should be going again and finishing up the details tomorrow or Monday.l

Quick rundown of what is / has / will be done for the truck refresh / hi topper build.

New "bulletproofed 5.4L 3V. These engines are notorious for oiling problems, sludging even when doing the factory oil change intervals etc... The new engine allegedly has been bulletproofed, oiling issues fixed including Melling hi volume oil pump etc... However I fully plan on doing oil changes back to the 1990s and earlier 3K mile recommendation instead of 7.5K miles. Plus will be running Seafoam on every 2nd oil change to clear out any potential problems.

Rancho Quicklift 2.5" level which only lifted around 2"... Sumo Spring coil boosters.
DV8 HD front bumper and winch mount.
Rugcel 12000 synthetic line winch.
Airaid CAI
K&N filter
SCT XCal 2
Magnaflow high flow cats
220 amp alternator, factory is 110. 0 ga battery, starter, and takeoff / DC to DC charging cables.
Replacement Tailgate handle with backup camera.
Aftermarket Android Auto head unit with 10" display.
Summit tubular side steps.
Blacked out headlights with full LED conversion
Blacked out LED 3rd brake light.
Blackout LED tail lights with high intensity LED reverse bulbs.
Line of fire tailgate light bar (The stop / brake / turn lights that go all the way across between tailgate and bumper.
Dechromed and raptor lined rear bumper.
Curt receiver hitch, Ford factory 7 pin trailer harness and towing package trans cooler. A.K.A. aftermarket installed towing package.
Repaired suicide door latch release cables. Typical Ford Supercab failure. They really ought to do better.
Pending a decision, but I need to repair the seat foam, and reupholster at least the drivers seat, but I don't care for the original fabric and am considering doing a leather seat upgrade. I know a bit spendy, but I will be keeping this truck as long as possible.

Now Camper rig.
Jeraco Hi Top , and it is the Hi Top that is key for me, camper shell. Not a perfect fit on my truck, but it works well enough. Home depot high density weather stripping foam to make up the gap at the tailgate where the shell is actually slightly too long by like 1/2". It was a cheap Facebook Marketplace find.
Using aluminum HVAC tape to seal up the bed gaps around the stake pockets etc... Using clear silicone sealant to seal the bottom of the bed to the front wall, It is tack welded but no butyl tape or anything like that was used from the factory.
Bedrug to even out the bottom of the truck bed. If too hard / expensive to get a bedrug, use plywood and speaker cabinet carpet.
DIY bed cabinet with storage. For MINE I ended up with the entire thing at something like 10" in order to get enough clearance for me to be able to sit and not have my head in the roof while sitting on the.
Millard tri fold 6" memory foam mattress. I could have gone with a 4" and had more storage under the bed, but I am a big guy and need the added cushion. I have tested this out and it is as comfortable as my memory foam mattress at home.
Not super well designed electrical compartment cabinet. I will likely redo this before I even think of the foamie topper build. But it has enough room for a 200 amp hour Lifepo 4 battery, all the wiring that is centralizd there, my AtemPower 40 MPPT solar charge controller / DC to DC charger.
2 sets of switch / dual USB Charger voltometer / 12V power ports. Each set is independently switched. This will allow me to run my CPAP, USB lights etc... in the camper.
Alpicool 63quart LG compressor refrigerator. This gets housed in the back seat of the supercab. I need to figure out how to route the wiring for the 12V power port as I want the power to come from the Lifepo4 not the truck battery.
Dokio 300w solar suitcase style panel set.
Ozark Trail 12x12 tarp shelter. I set this up off the back of the camper shell to provide an awning like space...

 

[dbhost]

Not sure if I mentioned it in this thread yet. But the pop up camper was a bust. It was raiing REALLY hard the night I inspected it, and the leaks were everywhere. Hard pass. I honestly don't think the seller knew about them. I bet I could have fixed it, but I am a big guy that does NOT want to get on a camper roof unless absolutely necessary, and not for anywhere near what he was asking for that camper.

Truck is running, cam timing issue on the new crate motor is fixed under warranty (warranty claim while installing the new engine yay!) Pretty common issue actually, but must keep an eye on it.

Drive cycle done late last night, the inspection station was closed. That is being done today and we pick up this afternoon. Actually to my understanding, he is going to deliver to me...

So I roll out the BFGs to the bed of the truck and head on over to get them installed tomorrow.

The weekend weather is going to be perfect if accuweather is to be believed, so the bedrug and camper stuff get installed on Saturday.

I should in theory be done with this stage of the build. Not sure if the foamie pop up should be a separate build thread. But unless I get lucky and find a pre made pop up in the weight range I need, in the condition I insist on and a price I am willing to pay, I am going to go forward with the foamie... So will need help here...

 

[dbhost]

Truck is done. First attempt at inspection failed. Literally threw a code on the way to the inspection station. Evap system error. Found the evap line at the firewall got pinched and cracked when doing engine swap. Line sourced, installed, code cleared, going back for reinspection tomorrow... Yay for requiring emissions inspections!

Should be in my hands by lunch time, then to the tax office for the sticker, and the tire shop for mount and balance of 5 tires...

I am not thrilled about the gap between my bed cabinet and the truck bed wall, and the electrical cabinet and truck bed wall. A redesign is in order. So while all the major components go in, I am planning them with the ability to be quick connected. And the use of a contour gauge is in order.

Since I am going to redo it, and I have the hi top topper, the plan is the electrical cabinet is absolutely going to be foamie / PMF for weight considerations. Bottom of the cab to house the port o potty, and then a shelf / mid compartment that will have a door, and will house the lifepo4 batteries. I need to figure out how to keep them above freezing so I can charge them. Of course the charging and output circuits. The solar charge controller / DC to DC charger will be In the compartment with the batteries, and the inverter will be on the ouside with appropriate wiring run to the batteries via hot / ground lugs. The 12V output will go to 3 12v sockets, 2 dual USB charging sockets in a panel that will be integrated into the bed side of the compartment. An additional Dual USB charging outlet will be run up to the ceiling to power the LED interior light strips. And a single 12V socket will run from the bed of the truck to the back seat of the cab to power the fridge. I need to design and print one, but I will 3D print a wall mount / hanger for my Z2 travel CPAP and mask. It might be nice to have the hose overhead a touch for once... Then is the top compartment should just be an open shelf. This should be storage for a couple of days worth of clothes, although the bulk of the clothes storage should be in the cab of the truck.

I will retain the aisle, but if I can manage, I want side storage opposite the bed platform. A way to mount the instant shower would be nice...

And I need to figure out a work surface, a laptop desk of sorts so I can work seated in the bed of the truck should the weather determine that is what is going to happen...

 

[dbhost]

So today was yet another delay. Allegedly the truck is done, but we did not get to the inspection station before they closed. This sh*t is no longer funny.

Well while biding my time, the new 12V output panel came in, So I installed it into the side of the electrical compartment. Without considering where the mattress of the bed will be in relation to this. I am of course an idiot.

I mean it looks good, but the bed platform covers part of the lower set of screws for the charge controller. And I have a 6" mattress.

Did I mention I am an idiot?

So I guess to minimize stress on the 12V cords, I will have to make some stand offs to basically make the electrical compartment mount a few inches further out than we had intended. I.E. 2x3 cutoffs. I should have plenty left over. I think... 1.5" is going to be close, but doable...

Did I mention I am an idiot?

I think I did mention elsewhere if not here, I intended on redoing the bed platform AND the electrical compartment, making the bed platform tighter to the truck bed wall, hopefully buying me back I believe 3 to 4".
The intent behind the new electrical compartment closet is basically full height in 3 tiers. Tier 1 will have a door facing forward, and will house the when not in use port o potty. Tier 2 will likewise have a door but this one to the bed side and will have a latch and will be sized to house 2 200 amp hour Chins lifepo4 batteries. The 12V output panel seen above and the battery monitor will be mounted to the door. The solar charge controller / DC to DC charger, and inverter will be mounted to the front of the cabinet. Tier 3 will be an open shelf with the opening toward the front. This will be basically a shelf that will hopefully be big enough to hold things like basic toiletries and frequent use items. On the side with a purpose designed 3D printed bracket will be my Z2 travel CPAP hose, and mask. At the very top will be another 12V to dual USB power outlet and switch pair to power my LED light strips that I intend on using for ceiling lights. I think if I Add a 2" Memory foam cushion, I can increase the height of my bed platform by about 3", which should put me into the truly useful under bed storage category again. Including keeping Aquatainers under there. Just move the mattress, sit on the 2" pad for a working seat and lastly, a flip up, or down work surface / desk.

 

[dbhost]

So inspection is done, I am just now getting home from work, and an after work party, so I pick it up tomorrow. No problem. I work remote monday so I can get the tags, so just hope and pray my local PD is inattentive as usual through the weekend. The Malibu is almost out of gas, I need to get gas before getting the truck. I figure go put $10.00 in it. You see I am going to drop the car off at a friends place, the friend that is partnered in the shop, and then get the truck. I will go back for the car, well as soon as I can catch a lift. I'd like to get my Saturn out of the driveway first though. It just needs to go... Going to call the donation place monday.

I think I have a fix for the too low mount, and it gives me space to put a separator and a second battery in and that is just add 2x3 stock to the bottom. Kind of a box at the base same size. Pocket screws and glue should do the trick.

And I need to size up a new top. Just need to measure it up, set up the fence on my circ saw, and cut out from some cutoffs I have in the shop... Not going to un-bury my table saw for this...

So maybe, juuuust maybe, I can have the truck back this weekend, Bedrug installed, the electrical compartment fixed, and bed / electrical cabinets installed. Maybe even get it wired up and battery in...

That would leave me evenings to get the head unit and camera installed, and curtain rods installed. And at least SOME progress on the curtains considering I know jack squat about sewing in a straight line.

 

[dbhost]

We were almost ready for delivery when we had an oopsie and back in it went. We found out the hard way what we forgot to double and triple check. I was concerned about the brakes being parked for as long as the truck was. Brake calipers are kind of unforgiving. Anyway after getting the drive cycles in, everything good, safety inspection done, we are ready to go with delivery, yep. Caliper blew out and sent the pedal to the floor. Good thing for the E brake...

So back in it goes for 4 new calipers and lines. And a fine tooth comb inspection. I did tell him I wanted it ready to drive to alaska trouble free if I wanted to...

Anyway, working on the solar setup getting it finalized. So here is what I have configured.

2 Dokio 300w folding panels. These output via SAE connectors and provide 20 amps each.
SAE connector / extensions to allow me to set up the panels a little bit away from the truck, into a 8ga Y cable, so they are run in parallel, giving me 40 amps input.
The Y cable goes into the SAE panel pass through with weather seal, again 8 ga.
8ga SAE cable to the factory solar input wires from the AtemPower 40 amp MPPT solar charge controller + DC to DC charger.
Chins lifepo4 battery, second pending delivery.

The engine has been outfitted with a 220 amp high output alternator, and 0 gauge wire has been run under the truck with a buss bar / box that will allow me connection for hot, ground goes to the chassis. From the Buss bar and chassis to the DC to DC charger is 8 gauge wire, and has a 50 amp breaker in line.

Some quality time with some cardboard and a profile gauge to make templates to rebuild my electrical cabinet. This will allow me the space for the 2 batteries.

I did not opt for the heated batteries. So I need to figure out a sub freezing battery warmer solution.

110V comes into the cap through a Noco I think is the brand marine 110v pass through, with a hunk of recycled outdoor extension cord to a single 110v duplex socket in a single gang surface mount box. The box is automotive grade black 3M mounting tape mounted directly to the inside of the cap with some liquid nails for good measure. My power cord has an inline GFCI that has been tested and is known to work well. And of course the Sportsman 1000 inverter generator has been run tested at least somewhat recently...

 

[dbhost]

So as I mentioned previously the slide in camper buy was a serious dud.

The Semi foamie is definately on the outs for now. Use what i Have the best I can for now. Starting in the spring though, start building a proper camper.

My biggest design problem is active cooling.

I am getting a LOT of conflicting info on running AC on solar. I know it needs a lot. But how much is a lot varies by who you ask. And what AC. A good many folks say flat out impossible, or you need 4KW of panels and at least 1600 amp hours of battery blah blah blah...

Then I look at the Dometic RTX1000 and RTX2000 which quote a run time of 12 hours and a recommendation of 180 amp hour batteries.

Then I watch the the worlds DUMBEST power draw test videos with a configured but not installed anywhere so it just sits there running and not really transferring any thermal load tests of these ACs. Of course they will run full blast / full power consumption all the time. Air conditioners are NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE EVAPORATOR AND CONDENSER COILS IN THE SAME AIR SPACE!!!!!

So I have absolutely ZERO fully trustworthy data on those. However factory specs SEEM to indicate 18amp running in eco mode, assuming reasonable space insulation, radiant barrier etc... I should in theory have no problem with 600w solar panels and 400 amp hours of lifepo4 batteries, but then again, no guarantees... Yay!

Now, especially with it just being me, sorry RJHowell, but I think I am going to have to go with a slide in build, not a flatbed build. I need an overcab sleeper sure, but there are lots of times I suspect I am going to need a pickup bed...

So first things first. Dig out my old designs for a slide in and see what needs to be changed / updated. Still going to go with a full 8", but use in bed tie downs instead of the exterior ones. No need for those after all...

 

[dbhost]

Since I should be rebuilding my electrical cabinet. Here goes most likely an incredibly stupid question...

Would 1/2" pink XPS I think foam / PMF be sufficient for a pretty basic cabinet restraining 2 chins 200 amp hour 12v batteries?

 

[dbhost]

I've been neglectful here... sorry.

Current status. The mechanic I took the truck to flaked the heck out so I got the truck and most of my deposit back. I ordered a new long block assembly from PowerTrain Products with their 7 year unlimited mileage no questions asked warranty ($300.00 extra for the extended time and no questions asked extra coverage). Old engine is mostly disconnected, some done by the first shop before they flaked, most done by my friend and I.

Replacing more or less everything failure prone underhood, water pump, AC compressor, idler, tensioner, alternator with a new high output 220 amp unit etc...

I have a 12K winch mounted to the heavy duty off road front bumper, complete with synthetic line for weight and safety. My old Engo E9000 winch is being converted into an E9000s meaning I am swapping the aircraft steel cable for synthetic line and a hawse fairlead. That will be mounted on a winch cradle for rear usage.

Once the truck hits the road again, will camp with the fiberglass topper for a little while, as I collect the goodies for the camper build.

Looking at more or less copying a 4 Wheel Campers Project M pop top topper, but with full doors instead of hatch, and one of the doors will be reinforced to hold a 5K BTU Window unit AC..

Looking to built it to sleep a max of 3, 2 in the king size overcab, and 1 on the couch across most likely the drivers side bed rail... I really need to figure this out...

 

[GPW]

DB, That's a Lot to think about !!!

 

[olddawgsrule]

Wow! You've been through a lot lately! I just caught up on your story.

The Project M camper topper is just that, a topper. The build can be done, yet structural engineering and solid mounting to the bed-rails is the crux IMHO. My design uses a single beam outrigger to hold the over-cab sleeping. My framing goes to the deck, not the bed-rails. Sleeping two overhead (unless lightweights) is asking a lot! I'm not a small guy either (6-1 / 240lbs) and I see I'm maxed out with my 36" loft (over-cab). Most of these campers like to slide a shelf out into the main cabin to allow for a larger bed N/S configuration). If thinking this, then I can see a pair in the loft.

Best of on the AC build-out. I'm glad that's something I don't have to deal with.. I spend summer at higher altitudes or oceanside.

Safe Travels!

 

[dbhost]

Wow! You've been through a lot lately! I just caught up on your story.

The Project M camper topper is just that, a topper. The build can be done, yet structural engineering and solid mounting to the bed-rails is the crux IMHO. My design uses a single beam outrigger to hold the over-cab sleeping. My framing goes to the deck, not the bed-rails. Sleeping two overhead (unless lightweights) is asking a lot! I'm not a small guy either (6-1 / 240lbs) and I see I'm maxed out with my 36" loft (over-cab). Most of these campers like to slide a shelf out into the main cabin to allow for a larger bed N/S configuration). If thinking this, then I can see a pair in the loft.

Best of on the AC build-out. I'm glad that's something I don't have to deal with.. I spend summer at higher altitudes or oceanside.

Safe Travels!

I am back, kind of. Had a health scare so been away... Working on the truck has stopped temporarily but will pick back up this weekend. Original engine almost completely out of the truck. Need to pull top end parts, flex plate etc... and get the old long block stuffed back in the crate for the core return. Building / redoing the electrical compartment box. Going with 1/2" ply and build a simple box, open at the back with a shelf separating the batteries, and then a separate compartment for the electronics. Going to be taller than the original, but I didn't build the original for 2 batteries... Ooops... Probably get that done this week.

 

[dbhost]

So yeah, I have been sick as a dog all summer, and top it off with the longest run of 100 deg F days I have ever seen in Texas, honestly left me feeling more like Arizona... Anyway, The build is NOT stopped, but it is paused until the weather cools off to more tolerable levels and we can get back to work on it. HOWEVER camping it is a different story.

The Dr. due to my symptoms, they thought I might be dealing with cancer, thankfully there are no signs of cancer, but rather ulcerative colitis / IBD, which once I became symptomatic, well the need to be near a toilet has been vital. Although now that treatment is starting to do its thing that is lessening. Well to keep from having a bad incident on the road, Or having to crawl out of my camper at 2 A.M. and into a privy, I have opted for now to pick up an older used camper van. I will be fixing the foibles it has, and updating the tech so it isn't quite so early 90s. But with engine and trans just a few years old, crate motor and trans swapped in 2019, and the diff just gone through as part of the sellers prep as it had a noisy bearing, I should be solid on the mechanicals for a long time to come. I have plumbing and DC to DC charging / solar issues to attend to. For now it does have a deep cycle battery / isolator setup but I can and should do better...

Anyway, I will camp the van, and work on / get the truck and camper ready for with any luck by spring I should be in full remission and I can go further off the beaten path which is where the truck comes in...

Neither the van, or pickup foamie camper will have build in shower, or stove. Will carry those over between the two. I will build in a diesel heater to the van, I have one to use freestanding for the truck foamie...

Part of me wants to build a class C off of this thing with a cutaway cab, but no... Not going to do that...

Will come back and keep you posted on progress. It will likely be early / mid october before it cools off enough to work on the truck, at that point, double down and git r done...

 

[olddawgsrule]

Hoping things get much better for ya! I'll be through your way the following winter (Feb '25). Gives ya plenty of time to have one of the ready to camp!
Hoping you'll show us a cool place to camp around you!

 

[bdosborn-SMB]

Glad you're feeling better. Good luck with the van and make sure to post some pics!
Bruce

 

[dbhost]

Been hustling on the Sportsmobile. PS pump was gonzoed, as are the idler / tensioner, and front brakes. So doing some mech refreshes, almost done there, adding a 130 amp Bosch alternator, and redoing the house charging system to a DC to DC charger / MPPT controller. Basically the rig I had for the truck camper is going into the van. I will be redoing the cabinetry and will have it going in about 2 years, and I will be doing foamie and wood cabinetry. May end up skinning foamie panels to get the pine wood cabin look I am shooting for. Just copying and modofying the Sportsmobile design, not totally rearranging...

So by Ren Fest time at the end of this month, van happy, temporary water system installed, new 12v charging / solar system, 12v fridge, and diesel heater installed.

Just for reference, yes, Feb 25 should be no problem for camping in Texas, I am rushing to get the van ready for camping before Halloween this year with a lot of make do on the plumbing and cabinetry but 100% on mechanical, electrical / solar, and updating tech such as adding the stereo / infotainment system with Navigation, backup camera and bluetooth connectivity...

I want to camp it this late fall / winter and then dive into the cabinettry health permitting. My workshop is a disaster but less of one than it has been, been working on cleanup and getting rid of stuff that is effectively trash I am needing to assemble a wide drum sander that I wanted on a mobile base, which I ordered from Grizzly, and they back ordered the mobile base until the end of this month, but this will give me the ability to make butcher block counter tops for the van, and honestly eventually for the house...

I made a smaller one for my late wife years ago as an actual cutting board and it has been fantastic for the last 15 years, but I want to make them all one design and at the same time... So they match...

The cabinets will need to be redone, looking to do wood reinforced foamie construction with actual fiberglass / epoxy resin, and skinning the outside surfaces with knotty pine veneer if I can source it up. The idea is to get strength, light weight and have the look of a mountain cabin, or at least as close as I can get in a van.... Will use the originals as templates and pre build my new units and just have them ready to install and have a move in day / install party...

At least that is the idea.

Reality is more likely I will fix the flaws I find bit by bit and just camp the snot out of this thing.

Oh and if you have seen price tags on new base model cargo vans, let alone full on RV conversions, you will KNOW why I went with a 30 year old rig. I can literally tear this thing down to the frame and do a full restoration on it, upgrading to modern specs along the way, doing a 4wd conversion and still only be in it for maybe 1/4 of what a new rig would cost me, and the new ones, well not a fan even if I had all the $$ to just throw at it...

Oh FWIW, for anyone interested, no built in stove, just using a Coleman 2 burner to keep it simple...