Tip Top Tier Drop

[WizardOfOdds]

edit 2 Oct 2015 -- Old title was "Tier Drop 50 Experimental Testbed"

My first trailer was a used 1964 Apache Buffalo pop-up and ever since I have been fascinated with the idea of building an expanding trailer. I finally had my fill of drawings and cardboard models and decided to experiment with three designs:

• TD-100 (100% increase in interior volume, like a Hi-Lo),
• TD-75 (elevates 100% in rear but only 50% in front) and
• TD-50 (elevates 100% in rear but only a few percent in the front).

The TD stands for "Tier Drop" because the upper tier drops over the lower tier for travel.

My primary goals were to

• Be able to see over the top when traveling and backing up
• Have as much head room as my pickup camper shell
• Adequate door entry height
• Elevated bed (storage under bed, no sleeping on the floor)
• Target weight 600#, Max 700#
• At least 4.5 feet wide

edit 2 Oct 2015 -- I failed to mention a major requirement I had to meet: the entire operations of opening and closing had to be accomplished by an elderly 135# weakling (me) without any assistance.

I built a rectangular base about 32 inches high (above the frame) and then 'framed' the different tops with firing strips using an overlap and bolt method to allow for the many many experimental modifications. All 3 designs worked out pretty well but our truck became unreliable and the wife got tired of the experiments chewing up our vacation time, and encouraged me to finish the TD-50 so we could do some camping. So I put a floor in the base, sealed the space between the walls and floor, and used what plywood and masonite I had left for the top skin and roof. When I ran out of ply, the rest became windows.

The TD-50 worked out pretty well, I think it is just about 600#, is about 4'-9" wide at the bed, but I had to elevate the base walls about 1.5 inches to meet my lowest point headroom goal. We've taken it out on eight trips, in several different experimental configurations. In the first, the rear panel doubled as the door, in the latest the roof is a tarp. I even tried a foam door -- remember this is a test bed for trying crazy ideas, not a build. Once I get our next tow vehicle, I will probably opt for a real build and it just might be a TD-50.

 

[Greg M-TNT]

Darn. Your pictures didn't come through.

 

[WizardOfOdds]

Darn. Your pictures didn't come through.

Hummm.... Sorry, but until I figure this out, you can see the pictures in my album by clicking the camera icon under my ID info in the left bar (but that icon only appears if you are a member and log in).

 

[danlott]

 

[aggie79-HILO]

Very nice!

Do you have any other pictures of your TTT while under construction?

 

[wyldesyde007]

I have this same obsession! I am particularly fond of the property caravan and the expandavan campers.

 

[pchast]

Nice Job.

How did you seal the sides to make it relatively insect proof?

Thanks,

 

[WizardOfOdds]

Thank you danlott for putting in the correct links to display the pictures within this thread. I compared the links in my post with yours and see the difference, but something tells me you know a quick and easy way to get the proper link that my cut and paste method failed to deliver correctly. It's probably in the FAQ or in some help file, but how did you get the needed link??

 

[WizardOfOdds]

Very nice!

Do you have any other pictures of your TTT while under construction?

Thanks for the reply. I recall using the camera for recording the numbers on the wheel bearings, how I had it wired before making some mods, and the like, but I doubt I will find any pictures worth posting. I admire those who make an album of each step of their build, but I am just experimenting at this stage. My next steps are probably to try a foam roof and a new door and I'll try to keep pictures in mind.

 

[WizardOfOdds]

Nice Job.

How did you seal the sides to make it relatively insect proof?

Thanks,

The sort answer is I made no attempt so far. Originally I was going to have overlapping lips on the top and bottom, but changes made to the back wall were incompatible with that because latching now requires raising the top about an inch (at the rear) beyond its resting place. The TD100 design had a bigger problem with this and I was going to use an inside hinged seal that you flipped over the gap. I'll bet those who built a Winter Warrior will have something to say here.

In the interim (TD50), I was going to just place a towel over the gap on the ledge formed by the top rail of the bottom, but never did. The good news is that in the 8 trips and about 20 nights of camping in rather buggy locations (some around here consider the mosquito the state bird), it has not been a problem. I am not sure why, but the fact that I have about a 4 inch overlap between top and bottom probably helps.

A related issue is that I did not extend the lower walls totally beyond the tire, so I really should replace the fenders to avoid upward spray from the wheels. A good solution should address both these concerns. All these issues need some attention for a final "build", but the basic idea of a test bed is to solve one or two at a time. I wasted far too many years tossing designs and not building anything because I was unsure about one or two minor issues.

 

[High Desert-TNT]

Very cool

 

[mezmo]

The TD-50 is a very nice straightforward design.
Maybe the easiest way to weather-strip it would be
to concentrate on the travel watertightness, with some
simple travel rest strips corresponding to the bottom
shape of the lift roof that would allow "D" profile or
dense foam weather stripping attached to the underneath
of the lift roof's wall bottom to compress against it.

A simple way to close the gap on the interior, when opened,
without doing a ying-yang type gasketing between the bottom
body box and the lift roof body box, would be to get some
of those large foam noodles they sell for a kid's water
toy. They usually have a hollow center. Just slice them
lengthwise and slip them over the internal top edge of
the body base. That should cover the gap easily. If need
be, the 'slice' could be a small section taken out lengthwise
if that is needed for a better fit.

Cheers,
Norm/mezmo

 

[WizardOfOdds]

Norm, Thanks for the reply, and the helpful ideas.



Maybe the easiest way to weather-strip it would be
to concentrate on the travel watertightness, with some
simple travel rest strips corresponding to the bottom
shape of the lift roof that would allow "D" profile or
dense foam weather stripping attached to the underneath
of the lift roof's wall bottom to compress against it.

I agree, the water spray is the primary concern even though we have not had any problems despite traveling in some pretty heavy rain. I was always worried the the trailer might create a vacuum at highway speed and draw the water in. I was going to try putting a length of J-channel (used with vinyl siding) on the bottom (base) wall so it would catch the bottom edge of the top in the closed (travel) position. It might be a bit unsightly when opened and it does nothing for the raised position seal. The idea of using a seal along the inner edge of the top is the one I like best because it has potential to seal in both travel and camp positions automatically.



A simple way to close the gap on the interior, when opened,
without doing a ying-yang type gasketing between the bottom
body box and the lift roof body box, would be to get some
of those large foam noodles they sell for a kid's water
toy.

I like that idea, it is something I can try with little to no effort - should work really well if I can cut a thin 'pie slice' the length of the noodle. The wedge shape would be just the ticket. I purchased a number of them a few years back when they marked them down for winter. I used a section of one as a thick gasket at the bottom of the door entry (one of the problems with 'overlap and bolt' is it seems everything is in a different depth plane). It worked well, but I used a pink noddle that was a bit unsightly when the door was left open, so I replaced it with gray foam.

Again, thanks for the interest and helpful suggestions.

 

[WizardOfOdds]

Very cool

Thanks for the reply, it is always nice to know the post did not go unnoticed.

 

[Junkboy999]

Wow.


Now that is thinking outside of a funny shaped box for ya. I love it. Looks like a prototype for the winter warriors.

We do have one request when you start your TD-50 final camper. Give the camera to your lovely wife and have her take pictures.


You know. If you have a forward facing, center part that raises up, Kinda in reverse of what you did now. RTD-50 (R for reverse ) elevates 100% in front but only a few percent in the rear. like Sharon’s or the compact II. You and the misses could stand up full height. It would be like the pop-up on the A-liner but at a lower angle.







If my picture bother you let me know and I can remove them. If they cause you to toss and turn at night trying to figure out how to incorporate it into your camper, You're hooked.

 

[WizardOfOdds]

junkboy999 wrote ... You know. If you have a forward facing, center part that raises up, Kinda in reverse of what you did now. RTD-50 (R for reverse ) elevates 100% in front but only a few percent in the rear. like Sharon’s or the compact II. You and the misses could stand up full height. It would be like the pop-up on the A-liner but at a lower angle.

I was hoping to stir up this kind of thought! From your album, I see you do some independent thinking - I love it. Your drawing says it all, please leave it posted. I need to start using some sort of CAD tool, it is so good at putting an idea across.

When I first framed the TD50, I did not like the lack of head room in the front (unless I lowered the bed to a very low level), so I moved on. I considered a second roof somewhat like you show but only for the front half and that seemed to put too much weight front of the axle. I am sure your suggestion could be built. Theoretically it should not add much weight and (unlike my half roof) does not change the weight distribution very much.

I returned to the TD50 and raised the base side walls about 1.5 inches and made some other small changes to reach my headroom goal, but then I could only just barely see over the top, one of my most sacred goals. Since I can regain 2+ inches by moving the axle above the springs (future), I kept it and its been that way ever since. Eight trips later, I have to say I am satisfied with just about everything except 'over the top visibility'.

Keep up the original thinking, I Hope to hear from you more as things progress.

 

[Junkboy999]

Your trailer idea ( The 50%-100% ) reminds me of this trailer in this thread. The odssey sport travel trailer. Only forty of them were made 1962 - 1963.


There is a nice 1962 price is right show recorded on youtube. If you watch it , you will see a guy actually raises the front about a foot while the taller guy raises the back. I love how this ones opens. I would love to build a smaller version of this and pull it behind a 65 Ford Falcon on day when I hit the lotto.



please keep us posted on how it evolves and I few interior pictures would be nice.

 

[WizardOfOdds]

Crazy as it may seem, we decided to take the trailer as-is all the way from Virginia to Yellowstone and back through Montana and North Dakota. It was a wonderful trip which we will never forget. I put a few photos into the gallery.

Here is a short progress report on some of the previous discussion:

About the seal between tiers: My attempt at an indoor insect seal using a pie section of a pool noodle failed because I could not cut a slice as thin as the gap (which runs from nothing to about a quarter of an inch or so). However, we still did not have any real problem with insects. Even at Yellowstone where the mosquitoes were really dense (Canyon area), we had fewer in the camper than we did in the car. It just might be that mosquitoes don't crawl far and can't fly up a very narrow 4 inch vertical gap.

I also tried using a J-channel as a tire spray guard (driver side only). It worked well in the heavy rain we had through Ohio, but since I did not bother to paint it, it sticks out like a sore thumb, especially in the open configuration. Here it is in the closed ....

. I still intend to use an out-of-sight rubber seal between the tiers for any real build.

We had no trouble going up (or down) hills, not even over the Powder River Pass in Wyoming or those of I-68 in Western Maryland. All the work to keep the weight below 600 lbs paid off! Being able to see over the top of the trailer proved very valuable when backing into camp sites. The sight line down the center of the top was most helpful. I think the low closed profile (about 2/3 the height above the frame as a small 48" Tear Drop) was also helpful in managing drag, but a better aerodynamic shape would also help.

I never did quite master an easy way to 'make the bed'. When we camped with a pick up truck, we had access to both sides of the bed from the outside through two 54 inch long window doors (a bit like the bed access of a two door tear drop but at standing height). That made 'stretching the sheets' easy. Not so in small trailers or small tents! On the other hand, with the bed folded back, we had over half the total trailer foot print as 'open space' in front of a full width bench seat - much better than in our pickup.

I was going to try a foam roof, but figured it was safer to stick with the experimental tarp top (which proved as effective as the plywood top and a bit lighter) rather than leave on a 5300 mile trip with anything totally new. Just in case, I packed an extra roof (tarp) since it was light and it only takes a couple of hours to install. Although we had no trouble with wind or leaks, the tarp showed signs of surface deterioration by the end of the trip, especially near the seam. Some how I did not notice the tarp had a seam until it was almost fully installed. The metallic silver finish seems to slowly etch away leaving a white under surface (raw polypropylene?). I believe the erosion is etching or UV damage because the top does not flex or ripple even at highway speed. As of the end of the year (6+ months of constant outdoor exposure) the top still holds it's own against the rain, but I have to believe its only a matter of time.

Finally, one interesting and entertaining couple we met while camping told us we need to give this camper a name and then offered several very clever candidates that I will hold in reserve for when I do a real build. I selected the origin name "Tier Drop 50 Test Bed" because it was descriptive (upper tier drops over lower tier, a test platform to see if I could get satisfactory bed headroom in the open configuration while meeting my constraint to 'see-over-the-top' when closed, etc.). For now I have renamed it the "Tip Top Tier Drop".

 

[dodgedartgt]

Hi Wiz,

Sent you a PM an hour ago, without realizing you had made a post this week. Looking to hear back from you soon,

Mike in FL

 

[WizardOfOdds]

here is a portion of my reply to a request that others may find useful

I tried to make some measurements but am currently limited because I stored all my building materials and the like in the trailer for the winter. It would take quite a while to unpack and repack it all. However I was able to make some measurements without unpacking. You are right about the front overhang, it is six inches and gives us a nice 6 inch shelf at the end of the bed for overnight storage of glasses, water bottles, flashlights and the like. The bottom of the overhand is 14 inches above the bottom of the frame, but the hinge is a bit higher and covered up. The frame is about 3 inches high and my floor is a bit less than a half inch thick. The max interior head space is about 66 inches, tall enough for us to get out of bed or enter through the door without any head bangs. The nice part is that the peak is just where we wanted it (about midway between the end of the opened bed and the door. We find having the max height there is far more useful than if it were in the back or center of the trailer (that is max head room is best located for both getting out of bed and outside entry through a rear door).