WattCycle LiFePO4 Battery Voltage and NOCO Charging Question

[gearsoup]

I just received my 314aH battery from WattCycle and went to check it with my multi-meter (it's a dumb battery, no bluetooth). Measures..... .5v (that's point 5)
WattCycle claims to ship them at 30-50% capacity for safety, so that doesn't sound good on my end. I've got it on the NoCo Genius 10, but WattCycle says "that brand isn't rated for LiFePo4 batteries (NOCO says otherwise)

Hmm...I've reached out to WattCycle to see what they have to suggest.

 

[Wandering Sagebrush]

That must be disappointing! Good luck…

 

[gearsoup]

I think I'm the dumb one. I had my meter set to the wrong V setting. Switched it over and it's at 13.2v
The question still stands though if I CAN use the NOCO for LiFePo4 charging. If not, any suggestions on a GOOD unit (I prefer "buy once, cry once")

 

[JacksonElden]

Good luck!

 

[Tony Latham]

The question still stands though if I CAN use the NOCO for LiFePo4 charging.

Just set it for lithium.

I've got the 100 amp WattCycle, and so far it's great. Quite the leap from my old chunk of lead soaked in acid.

Tony

 

[gearsoup]

Yeah, that's where I'm leaning (I decided to just chance it and start the charging)

 

[Brumasterm01]

Rest easy. I don't think you are chancing it. NOCO is a recognized US brand name(US engineered - China MFG) that has been around for years. While Watt Cycle(China Engineering & MFG) has a good reputation, there may be a variety of reasons why they might say "don't use" rather than actually doing some research or testing. They also sell battery chargers, so there's that.

LIFEPO4 batteries have much simpler charging profiles than lead acid or lithium ion. I've been using cheap Chinese chargers for my LIFEPO4 battery builds for several years and have never had one fail. It's a pretty resilient chemistry and the BMS will keep you safe.

If you are unsure, check the charger voltage(not under load), you should see 14.2V-14.6V.

 

[featherliteCT1]

Your Noco charger will charge your battery using a bulk charge of 14.6v (3.65v per cell) and will stop charging when the battery and cells reach that target voltage. Those voltages are the extreme, maximum voltages that a Lifepo4 battery can be safely charged. The Noco settings cannot be changed.

When your cells get out of balance, and the BMS shuts off charging due to a cell over voltage trigger (which shut off is hard on the mosfets in the BMS) it will not be possible to reduce the charge voltage to enable the cells time to balance.

Your Noco charger will charge at a maximum of 10A, which is fairly low compared to your 314AH battery. For example, if your battery is at 20% state of charge, it would take 15 hours of constant charging to get to 100%. That may or may not suit your needs.

However, significantly longer battery life can be achieved using a bulk charge of 13.8v (3.45v per cell). At 13.8v, the battery will be 99% charged (effectively 100% charged) and the battery life will be extended significantly. But the NOCO cannot do that.

If you did not already have the Noco charger in hand, I would recommend the Victron charger at the following link. The charger is a smart charger, fully programable to charge at various voltages, and can be viewed from your phone or computer.

The 30A model can also be set to charge at a 15A rate. Both models can be used as a power source to provide a constant 12.8v, for example, to run lights, fans and other devices when the battery is not installed.

Victron IP22 Battery Charger Blue Smart Bluetooth

Hope this helps.

 

[gearsoup]

Your Noco charger will charge your battery using a bulk charge of 14.6v (3.65v per cell) and will stop charging when the battery and cells reach that target voltage. Those voltages are the extreme, maximum voltages that a Lifepo4 battery can be safely charged. The Noco settings cannot be changed.

When your cells get out of balance, and the BMS shuts off charging due to a cell over voltage trigger (which shut off is hard on the mosfets in the BMS) it will not be possible to reduce the charge voltage to enable the cells time to balance.

Your Noco charger will charge at a maximum of 10A, which is fairly low compared to your 314AH battery. For example, if your battery is at 20% state of charge, it would take 15 hours of constant charging to get to 100%. That may or may not suit your needs.

However, significantly longer battery life can be achieved using a bulk charge of 13.8v (3.45v per cell). At 13.8v, the battery will be 99% charged (effectively 100% charged) and the battery life will be extended significantly. But the NOCO cannot do that.

If you did not already have the Noco charger in hand, I would recommend the Victron charger at the following link. The charger is a smart charger, fully programable to charge at various voltages, and can be viewed from your phone or computer.

The 30A model can also be set to charge at a 15A rate. Both models can be used as a power source to provide a constant 12.8v, for example, to run lights, fans and other devices when the battery is not installed.

Victron IP22 Battery Charger Blue Smart Bluetooth

Hope this helps.

I'm not married to the charger and can always use another one in the shop for the myriad of batteries I need to tend over the winter; zero-turn, side-by-side (x2 batteries), motorcycle, dirtbike. There's 5 batteries there at a minimum. I think I'll spring for the Victron for the camper

 

[featherliteCT1]

I think I'll spring for the Victron for the camper

Uh oh! Be prepared to get addicted to the Victron ecosystem ... it is a disease.

 

[gearsoup]

I've already got their solar charge controller, so I'm already into it

 

[featherliteCT1]

I've already got their solar charge controller,

Do you also have the Victron Smart Shunt?

 

[gearsoup]

I don't think so. Why is it needed, what does it do?

 

[gearsoup]

Ok, did some reading. Since the battery is a "dumb" unit (no bluetooth), this sounds like a good investment to allow me to monitor battery health

 

[featherliteCT1]

Yes, the shunt is the only practical way of measuring the overall state of charge of the battery.

 

[Tony Latham]

Since the battery is a "dumb" unit (no bluetooth), this sounds like a good investment to allow me to monitor battery health

I swear by the AiLi meter.

They are about $40. It'll tell you how many amps are in your box, along with charge percent, the amount of juice going in or out and the voltage.

On a recent month long trip, it was a lifesaver after our solar system took a dive.

Tony

 

[gearsoup]

I did buy that same unit! So, since I've got that already, do we still feel the need for the shunt as well?

 

[Tony Latham]

did buy that same unit! So, since I've got that already, do we still feel the need for the shunt as well?

It comes with one.

Tony

 

[featherliteCT1]

To clarify, the Victron smart shunt will integrate with your other Victron products enabling the devices to be synchronized by sharing temperature and voltage readings.

For example, while any standard shunt can measure the net current entering or leaving the battery, the Victron Shunt synchronizes with the other Victron products.

Lifepo4 batteries are highly sensitive to voltage drop over wire run distances and temperature fluctuations. With a Non Victron Shunt your chargers measure voltage at their own output terminals. Because of the resistance in the wiring between the chargers and the battery bank, when charging the charger might think the battery is at 13.8v when the battery is actually only at 13.6. That is not good. There are other adverse effects that I omit explaining.

In contrast, the Victron shunt measures the exact voltage right at the battery terminals and then broadcasts that voltage to all of your Victron chargers. The chargers instantly compensate for voltage drop, ensuring that the battery is charged with the profile actually programmed into the chargers.

If you add a temperature sensor to the shunt, the shunt also broadcasts battery temperature, allowing chargers to cut off charging at low temperatures. If you had a lead acid battery, the battery would also benefit from temperature compensation.

I am taking the time to explain the Victron benefits because you said you already have a Victron solar charger and may be buying the Victron IP22 charger.