Teardrop - Form versus Function

[nevadatear]

This pic shows the ice chest on its shelf. My ice chest has a cooler cozy quilt to extend the ice life.

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.

Oh and big doors! Big doors are very important.

[bobhenry]

Hi all,

I can see some of the limitations with a teardrop choice:
kitchen access in bad weather



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Dressing / undressing room



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Seating


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Storage front cabinets

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Limited space for tall people (I am 6' 2" +)


5x10 trailer with 8' from galley wall to front wall with 15" toe room under cabinets.
This sleeping configeration is a bit different but worked great with front cabinets.
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Claustrophobic
see below
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Toilets


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Any assistance here much appreciated.


Laurie

The cubby profile was my plan but it seemed to morf into the now infamous "Chubby" This was my first full size build.

And I can say that a First up pop up gazebo has solved each and every problem above except claustrophobia. ( for that I added a clear roof )


There are no limitations with a good imagination !

You can even get 9 feet of counter space in a five wide teardrop

[nevadatear]

Here is what stays packed in the tear all during camping season
In the galley are things we need immediately after arrival: wheel chocks and leveling blocks, plus heavy stuff(cast iron) cause we are a little tongue heavy.

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In the cabin are two camp chairs, one antigravity lounger (sometimes two), three mats, solar light, awning, side tables, pvc sink set up and tearjerker flag, each in individual bags as appropriate, and laying on a big piece of waterproof material to protect the bed.

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Because of the tongue weight issue, and because depending on the purpose and location of the camp, some of these things don't go, the following go in the TV: two ice chests, folding bikes, firepit, shower shelter, folding camp table, hot water heater weed sprayer can, charcoal, charcoal starter, 1 gal drinking water, birding bag (binoculars and such) tool bag, games bag, and travel box (maps, atlas, books on cd, meds, glasses, randy's hearing aides, phones, etc.)
These is just the way we do it, of course others mileage may vary!

[alaska teardrop]

Hi Laurie, Looking forward to your final design & construction ideas.

Paul, I was thinking very seriously for a while about not insulating the walls after your earlier comment and then I read a thread on the Australian Yahoo Teardrop forum last night about a bloke camping in a tear and having to put his food into the esky to stop it from freezing. He also described sleeping in a sleeping bag within a sleeping bag. Tear was not insulated. What I found interesting was the location - just up the road from where I live. Found it quite funny as we have been to some family functions in the area and can always remember picking up the garden hose and having it snap in two due to the frozen water in it. Only 2 hours down the hill to the sunny north coast of NSW but two totally different environments weather wise. Decision made on insulation. I think I can get away without floor insulation with the foam mattress doing most of that work.

Laurie

Paul wrote:

I've built five in total now with another one on the go in the shed. The first one I built was done the American way with insulated walls, floor and roof. Since then I've realized that it doesn't snow much down this way and 15mm ply has an R factor of about seven. No need to insulate Mate. I only use 12mm for the floor.

Since downunder wood has an extremely high R-value, you may not need insulation. American wood only has an R-value of one per inch (plus or minus a little depending on the type).

Fred

[JuneBug]

I think about this from time to time & I'll be using this approach before our next camping trip: the issue is to consider the teardrop/TTT as a tool to be used to make your camping life easier and more fun.

First, make a list of everything that will go on the camping trip.
Then look at each item and decide where it goes, or would go, for easiest access. This is everything from shoes and clothes, water supply, salt/pepper shakers, toothbrush, laptop. Everything that gets loaded up must go somewhere, and know where that location will be. Do this together if camping with a spouse/partner. Are you a minimalist and spouse/partner wants to take everything and the kitchen sink? This is the time to work it out. Why this emphasis on organization?

I have a great book (alas, no longer in print) called The Motion Minded Kitchen by Sam Clarke. He approaches kitchen design based on motion-efficiency studies done by Frank and Lillian Gilbreth in the 1920s, resulting in efficient design principles. We drool over gorgeous kitchens in glossy magazines, but some (many) of those kitchens have a lot of glamor and not much practicality.

A few take-aways from that book are:
*all storage only one item deep
*group functional areas
*store kitchen tools at their point of use within the functional area
The result is each item close at hand, where and when it is needed
Although focused on kitchens, the design principles are universal

Make a make a list of categories, like cooking, eating, sleeping, hanging out (good weather & bad weather, shelter, camp rug*), storing and changing clothes, privacy, potty, security when away from camp, storage, whatever and list preferences for each.

Once all of the practical stuff is sorted out, design and build accordingly, using preferred size and profile and incorporating individual aesthetics.

*Mr. June Bug returned home one day from Home Depot with a large scrap of indoor/outdoor "carpeting" (5' x 6' or so), to use for camping. And yes, his tool box goes on every camping trip, so he's a kitchen sink guy.
To me, it was just one more thing da#n thing to load in the car, but it has turned into the handiest thing ever! I've also seen a suggestion to use large diameter pvc pipe to store it, so now that is taken care of, as well.

[JuneBug]

"Decision made on insulation. I think I can get away without floor insulation with the foam mattress doing most of that work."

A cautionary note: depending on the foam mattress, moisture can migrate down and, during some cold nights, condense on your uninsulated floor. If camping when there are cold nights, perhaps put down a layer of Ensolite to prevent that, or just check when you get back from your trip to make sure everything is dry.

[Bogo]

Since downunder wood has an extremely high R-value, you may not need insulation. American wood only has an R-value of one per inch (plus or minus a little depending on the type).

R-7 per inch is only slightly less than the best reasonably priced foams which are around 7.4 per inch. Many foams are closer to R-5, pink and blue foundation foams as examples. Balsa is around R-3 to R-4 if I remember correctly. Most woods are around R-1 per inch with many of the composite woods like plywood being less than their source wood is due to the glue. If the wood has a highly reflective layer, > 90% reflectivity, then I can see an effective R 7 for radiant heat, but not conducted heat. For lightness and thinness, the bubble foil insulation is about the best you can get. They are great for reflective heat loss, but not for conductive. I'd use two layers inside a wall cavity. The reflective foil faces need a bit of space to work properly so don't pack them in tight.

[Strop]

The insulation debate is a very interesting one for me. The weather differences between the USA and Australia are obviously there. Both very large countries with varying weather issues, though driving through parts of California recently reminded me of some parts of the state I live in here in Australia. We definitely don't have the snow impact though. I WILL NOT be outside camping in the snow with a fireplace built into the tear, Bob.

My research on Australian standards shows that plywood has a R value of 1 per inch whilst Polystyrene has an R value of 5 per inch. There are some timbers with higher R values but they are very dense so way too heavy to even be considered to use. I can get 12/19/25mm ply and 12/19/25mm polystyrene so the matches are there. The decision on 12mm or 19mm ply will be one based on weight. 4mm ply on the inside and outside appears to be the go so perhaps 12mm is the correct choice for the walls. Polystyrene is obviously lighter than ply so even without the need for insulation it helps make the walls lighter, perhaps not dramatically but lighter. I think it is therefor a no brainer. While I can get insulation with foil in it the additional cost of the foil just does not add up - no value for money. The extreme weather I am likely to encounter here is heat not cold. Therefore, the colour choices on the exterior of the tear will be important. A black tear would obviously be a no no. It would suck the heat in like nothing else - so I think I will be forced to go for light colours to achieve some of that reflective heat effect of the foil on insulation.

That in itself is an interesting experiment. If you have 3 tears built basically the same but finished differently, woody, black aluminium or high gloss aluminium how do the temperatures vary inside them? Are the black ones warmer in winter? Are the shiny ones cooler in summer? Having had a black car sitting in the sun in summer I know the effects of colour. Anyway a bit too deep for me at this point as I am still trying to get my head around the basics.

Debbie thank you for the photos of the packed tear. It does help a lot. My wife, Ann, has been asking questions about where you put everything and how is it different from this and that. I can see from your photo showing the tent poles that there is probably a need to have that ledge to possibly store your poles, annex, cover or whatever for easy access. If not being used they can be simply placed under the rear and packed again easily. Poles can weigh a lot so possibly impact upon that front heaviness you were speaking of. I am also with you about the grease, fat etc from the stove in the kitchen area. Debbie I did not see where you stored those side tables - in the TV or tear?

JuneBug, you are absolutely correct. The kitchen has to work no matter what you do and where you go. Thanks also for the tip about moisture on the floor. The kitchen area will take some thinking on how to get it to work for us, even though most of the designs are very similar. I have seen a number of extnsion tables coming out from the bench area but I have not seen anyone modifying an iron drawer http://drawerslide.com.au/slide-pull-out-ironing-board. I am not for one minute suggesting you need an iron - I was thinking of a nice easy way to have additional workbench area that just hides away when not wanted. This design facet will take a while to figure out I am sure.

BIG DOORS - I hear you. Has been written down in my must haves.

Propane Firepit - Yes it has me interested. I have even found a few how to build your own pages. It is so funny how a fire brings people together. Freezing cold standing around the fire or inside the house. Outside around the fire of course.

Thank you again for you feedback and pictures everyone. I am thinking that this planning process will take some time. Just looking at some plans it is quite obvious what and inch here and there can do or prevent you from doing. Also the other part is how do you future proof your design if how you do things changes or the type of equipment changes.

Question also - I know about the reversible vent fan in the roof but has anyone fitted 12v fans into the bedroom area to increase airflow and cooling as an alternative to AC. I do not want to put in AC but someone keeps mentioning it.

Thanks again

Laurie

[Strop]

JuneBug,

Forgot to mention that the use of PVC tubing to store a wide variety of things is common practice over here. Both on cars, work vehicles and trailers. I do have in mind looking at if I can place one or more PVC tubes under the trailer to hold suitable items. Even considering to use them for water storage.

It is so good looking at some of the unique solutions people come up with to do things.

Laurie

[Vedette]

Well we loved our first experience in Miss Piggy at the Dam Gathering.
And now we have just returned from our first Rod Run (Blossom Run) which we have attended for the past 32 years, but our first with our teardrop "Miss Piggy" as opposed to a tent.
It was wonderful
We encountered a record rain fall on the first night there, but stayed warm and dry! We also were able to sit under our ezee-up with the galley open and lights on enjoying a glass of red and hosting other campers, while the rain poured down around us.
We are hooked!
Will be heading off again to our next Gathering in 3 days!
See you down the road.
Brian & Sandi

[nevadatear]

Not sure what you mean by reversible vent fan as alternative to ac. That is exactly what we have. The fantastic fan is exactly that. As for tent poles, what you see are actually poles for the awning. The are very light weight. The ledge you see will actually be disappearing. I hate it. It keeps all the dirt in the galley. That was a design flaw on hubby's part, not the usual way to build a galley and will soon be changed. The side tables actually are stored in the cabin, in a bag i made for them. You can't see them as they are flat and pushed to the back, under the green camp chairs. Hope this helps.

The comments about thinking about where you use something close to storage makes sense. For the first two years we stored our tooth brushes in the cabin with our other toiletries. Last year, as we pulled them out to brush our teeth in the galley, where the water is, like every other time we have gone camping in the tear, it hit me, why don't we store them in the galley? So now we do.

[PaulC]

Hi Laurie, Looking forward to your final design & construction ideas.

Paul, I was thinking very seriously for a while about not insulating the walls after your earlier comment and then I read a thread on the Australian Yahoo Teardrop forum last night about a bloke camping in a tear and having to put his food into the esky to stop it from freezing. He also described sleeping in a sleeping bag within a sleeping bag. Tear was not insulated. What I found interesting was the location - just up the road from where I live. Found it quite funny as we have been to some family functions in the area and can always remember picking up the garden hose and having it snap in two due to the frozen water in it. Only 2 hours down the hill to the sunny north coast of NSW but two totally different environments weather wise. Decision made on insulation. I think I can get away without floor insulation with the foam mattress doing most of that work.

Laurie

Paul wrote:

I've built five in total now with another one on the go in the shed. The first one I built was done the American way with insulated walls, floor and roof. Since then I've realized that it doesn't snow much down this way and 15mm ply has an R factor of about seven. No need to insulate Mate. I only use 12mm for the floor.

Since downunder wood has an extremely high R-value, you may not need insulation. American wood only has an R-value of one per inch (plus or minus a little depending on the type).

Fred

Oops!! Thanks for pointing that out Fred it should read .7 as the R factor. Combined with the fiberglass sheeting I use it increases to an R Factor of around 3, which is more than enough for our climate down this way.
Cheers
Paul

[Shadow Catcher]

Our tear has an inch and a half foam insulation and an AC and diesel heater (both are not permanently attached). We have the largest tongue box I could find and two PVC pipes used to hold tent/awning poles 6" and the sewer hose 4" (gray water tank). The tongue box makes a huge difference in having a place to put the battery and charge controller for the solar panels and all of the tools etc.

Kitchen was designed by Nancy and set up the way she wanted. With the water heater, cooking and cleanup after are no more difficult than at home.