Heating Water

[MtnDon]

I know there are many here who use a pot on a stove for heating water. What I'd like to know is if you have a water heater such as an RV type propane water heater, or an "instant" tankless water heater of some kind or whatever... how do you like it and would you do anything different if you were building again.

For the record, in the past we have used RV water heaters as we have the more typical RV. We camp in the boonies almost exclusively. The fanciest campgrounds we get into as a rule are FS sites that may or may not have water on site. The setup that has worked well for us in the past has been based on a pilot light type Suburban or Atwood 6 gallon water heater. I have added 2 or 3 inches of extra foam around the sides on the interior. This lets us turn the heater to pilot only once we have the water first warmed. The heat from the pilot is usually sufficient for our modest uses, including the 'Navy' showers we take.

I did the same thing in our mountain cabin...




The spoace under the platform had faom sheet scraps inserted later.

On out CT conversion to be commenced soon the present plan is to use a 6 gallon Atwood (lighter than the Suburban heater) and super insulate it.. We will have a shower.

Thoughts on what I have done?
How do you get warm/hot water?

Thanks, DonM

[dean_petley]

i had meaning i cant find it now a copper coil that went into my portable fireplace i power the water with a bilge pump from a bucket and presto hot water
but i now have a small 12v presure washer with its own container i just boil what i need an some cold makes camping showers so much nicer and quicker same with washing up

[Shadow Catcher]

One of the things Nancy loves most about our tear is the hot water, a six gallon gas electric with a direct spark ignition. It gets fired up only first thing in the morning and in the evening. We do not have room for additional insulation or I would "borrow" your idea.

[GerryS]

This is one of those "whatever works for you" issues. If you are in a converted cargo and have room for an Atwood etc, then go for it. If you want to carry an instant heater (I have one and have yet to take it with us)....rock on! But for me, in a teardrop that extra cubic for can be better used in other ways. Such as a case of soda or extra food. The trouble with a water heater is that it's a single tasker. It heats water and that's it. The only single tasker I have is my fire extinguisher. In my camp-inn, I just don't have extra space....and there's a LOT of storage in my 560 compared to most.

For hot water, I can put a pot on the stove and have warm water in a minute or two. I'm using probably about the same amount of fuel (assuming I use propane and not a campfire) or less because I don't have a pilot light for parasitic draw... A 10 pound bottle has lasted almost 40 nights, and I still have fuel in the bottle....which reminds me, I need to get it refilled before shiveree!

There have been times that I wish I did have a heater some times....but then I usually realize we're camping, and those little inconveniences really don't matter as much. It's not like I just dragged my butt out of bed, when it's 1 degree outside and I'm running late for work. The only time I feel remotely rushed when I am out, is Sunday Morning when I am trying to get to Church.

I only say this because as a new builder, I tended to "RV" -- In reality, we have a lot more in common with tent campers. Really, you don't need it. Teardrops are more about getting rid of those things for a little while, not just making a VERY small version of a home.

I don't think I will ever understand the class A pushers who roll in, push a lever to level (!!!!) Then plug in and sit inside watching TV all day. I can do that same activity for free at home....not having the extra house payment. I'm spending as much for a week as he spent in fuel alone to get there. The only time I envy him is when it's rainy for more than a couple hours. For is, it's easy to hook up and find a nicer place if it's that bad. We have changed camping plans a couple times...it's wonderful to be that flexible!

When I'm gone for a week, what I usually find I am missing things like a private bathroom and a fresh towel. Things like immediate hot water are not even a consideration. I find there are a lot of things that "I couldn't live without" at home don't seem anywhere near as important.

Again it's about choice...I just want to politely remind newbies that more isn't always needed, or necessary.

[48Rob]

I don't think I will ever understand the class A pushers who roll in, push a lever to level (!!!!) Then plug in and sit inside watching TV all day. I can do that same activity for free at home....not having the extra house payment. I'm spending as much for a week as he spent in fuel alone to get there. The only time I envy him is when it's rainy for more than a couple hours. For is, it's easy to hook up and find a nicer place if it's that bad. We have changed camping plans a couple times...it's wonderful to be that flexible!

When I'm gone for a week, what I usually find I am missing things like a private bathroom and a fresh towel. Things like immediate hot water are not even a consideration. I find there are a lot of things that "I couldn't live without" at home don't seem anywhere near as important.

Again it's about choice...I just want to politely remind newbies that more isn't always needed, or necessary.

Gerry,

Good point.
For someone new to the hobby, learning about all the alternatives is good.

For those who make the choice to have hot water, on demand, a small water heater is a mighty nice thing to have!

I tended to "RV" -- In reality, we have a lot more in common with tent campers. Really, you don't need it. Teardrops are more about getting rid of those things for a little while, not just making a VERY small version of a home.

While I certainly respect your opinion, and anyone’s opinion about what camping "is" or "should be" it all falls back to the "it's about choice".

I have a 6 gallon water heater, an Atwood manual pilot model. I love it!
Once the burner heats the water in the tank (about 5-8 minutes) the pilot alone keeps it hot. It is very easy on fuel, and needs no 12 volt power to light or operate.

For me, at age 54, the allure of "camping" is no longer to be a minimalist, a "Daniel Boone" who needs almost nothing out in the wilderness.
When I was younger (14-18) I hitchhiked around the country many times, with everything I owned on my back.
A blanket and very light weight tent were my shelter. It was fun and exciting, it was cold and miserable, and it was an experience that I would recommend...

Now that I have most of that out of my system, I very much enjoy roaming the country in a bit more comfort. Perhaps it is offensive to some that I call it camping, maybe touring is a more appropriate term?
No matter, after years of standing in line waiting for other men to get done using a toilet, or shower, just so I could hurry to get done while others watched and waited for me to get done, using usually dirty and disgusting facilities, I no longer "have to".
I choose to bring my own with me, having my own facilities is a very pleasant experience.
I have tried to keep my trailers as small as possible, not to "fit in" with the teardrop crowd, but because there is for me, an allure.
The teardrop concept is attractive, just enough to be comfortable... (Individual comprehension of "comfortable" is where many opinions clash...)
I have found it an enjoyable challenge to build as small as I can, but still have it all!

Don, in answer to your question, I think you have a good plan.
I have found it helps in my trailer to insulate the hot water lines from the heater to the faucets; it helps reduce the volume of water that must flow until hot water arrives.

Rob

[MtnDon]

I have found it helps in my trailer to insulate the hot water lines from the heater to the faucets; it helps reduce the volume of water that must flow until hot water arrives.

Rob

Rob, that bothered me a lot when I planned our cabin. It is remote and we haul water so I am a miser with it. (Didn't want to drill a hole likely to be 600 feet deep going by other wells in the vicinity).

So I made a hot line bypass in the shower. The water goes back to the supply storage tank. (Cabin system is like an RV inside.) Here's a picture of the lines. The stainless braided hose at upper left has the bypass valve on the bottom end. It is a 1/4 turn shut off valve. Open until the pipe gets warm, then turn off and have a shower. Shower water is warm from the start if the hand held shower unit was left hanging to drain after the previous shower.



Here's a finished wall shot...



I'm thinking same thing in the CT. Insulation could be good too.

~~~~~~

I'm with you too on the camping and evolution over the years.

[aggie79]

Don and Rob,

I agree with the changing camping desires/needs as you age. One of us has crossed the 60 threshold and the other is close behind. The teardrop was the first change to camping habits based upon desires. Shortly thereafter a porta-potty was the addd for needs. Now a shower is in the forecast for my next build.

Thank you for this discussion. I too am weighing the tankless/conventional water heater selection. Insulating the hot water supply lines is a good idea as well as recirculating the hot water. I've added both of these to my "next build" idea book.

Take care,
Tom

[48Rob]

Don,

Great idea!

My version is a 1 gallon water jug that I stick the shower head in (on a flex line) to save the 1/3 gallon that would otherwise go to waste.
We use it to refill the portable toilet tank.
Your system is much better...

Rob

[aggie79]

Don,

I've been thinking more about your cabin recirculation design. We - to this point - don't do boondock camping so I haven't thought about having a fresh water tank. If there is not a tank to recirculate to, I guess I would need to use a pump and water loop to recirculate back to the water heater. Is my thinking correct?

Take care,
Tom

[MtnDon]

Tom,

Yes I first gave some thought to circulating the water back to the water heater tank because that is what we do with the home hot water system because of the distance from water tank to a couple of points of use. But for our cabin situation that needed an extra pump. So the next best was to dump the water from the hot water line back into the fresh water tank we have inside.

It should be relatively easy to hook up a pump to recirculate. I would check to see what the pump specs might have to say about maximum water temperature first though.

[MtnDon]

The trouble with a water heater is that it's a single tasker. It heats water and that's it.

One other possible use in a small space could be space heating.

A few years ago I did an experiment with the RV water heater and a auxiliary transmission oil cooler. Let's call it a radiator. I found that the heated water from the tank would circulate through the radiator by thermal convection if there was as little as 12 inches difference in height. The radiator higher than the water tank of course, one leg connected to a tee at the hot outlet and the other to a tee at the cold inlet. I also had a valve in there so I could stop the circulation if desired. That particular experiment had some other issues for the envisioned task, but I have been thinking about seeing if our new and to be well insulated CT might benefit from some heat that way. There are small pumps that would be suited for low volume circulation.


Did someone say radiant floor heat? I doubt I'd go that route but who knows.

[Rainier70]

This YouTube video by Jamie Franks might be helpful to some. It is using a Coleman on Demand heater, and recirculates the water while you soap up etc. This is how mine is set up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1be1X9i-oDU

[Shadow Catcher]

If you have a hot water heater it would be no trick to hook it up as a cabin heater. There are high temperature 12V pumps set up for solar heating and an automotive heater core and a computer case fan. you would not even need a valve to regulate heat, just use a variable PMW to regulate pump speed.

[tony.latham]

Don and Rob,

I agree with the changing camping desires/needs as you age. One of us has crossed the 60 threshold and the other is close behind. The teardrop was the first change to camping habits based upon desires. Shortly thereafter a porta-potty was the addd for needs. Now a shower is in the forecast for my next build.

Thank you for this discussion. I too am weighing the tankless/conventional water heater selection. Insulating the hot water supply lines is a good idea as well as recirculating the hot water. I've added both of these to my "next build" idea book.

Take care,
Tom

Tom:

Shower? 95% of our our 'dropping is in the boondocks and we're never without a shower. It's a Zodi and their shower enclosure. One of is taking the first shower ten minutes after the decision is made. We get a bucket of creek water circulating through the Zodi (it's got a pump) and start putting up the enclosure, about that time, the water's at 105ºF and we shut the heater off and take the shower.

http://www.zodi.com/

TL

[GerryS]

Like I said...it's all about choices. The smaller you build, the more difficult those choices are. I'm sure at some point I'll find myself in something bigger. Or, crazy talk, not camping at all.

I just know as a 40 something, I wanted to have refrigerator, microwave, and hot water in my TD. I could do that, and it's easy to start building that way. But a teardrop or TT gets full....quick. I hope to only remind a new builder that sometimes less, is in fact more.

Nothing wrong with water heaters. It's just that if you add one, you'll have to leave something else at home. Make sure it's a good trade.

BTW, the Coleman heaters are great. We used to use on for hot water in our concession business. It really took a lot of abuse, one of the few newer Colman products that seems well made I'm sad to say.