What do you think of this Lithium Ion battery?

[wincrasher]

With the 12v refer, I was wanting some more battery capacity, but with a teardrop, you have limited space and weight carrying. This might be a good choice.

Smart Battery makes a 12v drop in replacement battery that is Lithium Ion. The electronics to protect it are on-board the battery. A 100ah Group 31 type battery is around $1300, but they are supposedly good for 3-5000 cycles, so over the long haul may be worth the price. The good thing is it's truly drop in with no changes needed for your charger or converter.

They are claiming you can draw these down 100%! After around 2000 cycles, the battery would be degraded by 20%. I suppose if you didn't go that deep, you'd have less degradation.

http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-100ah-lithium-ion-battery/

FEATURES

Fully automatic built in battery protection system
Automatic low voltage cut off - 8v
Automatic over voltage cut off - 16v12V 100AH Lithium Ion Battery
Automatic short circuit cut off - instant
Automatic internal cell balancing
High quality bolted cylindrical cell design
Built in cell safety fuse " Nano Cell Fuse Technology "
Long life 3000 - 5000 cycles
Lightweight - up to 70% lighter than lead
No voltage sag - faster cranking for motors and higher voltage for continuous consistent power.
Dry Battery - no toxic lead or acid
Zero Maintenance
No venting or gassing
Heavy duty stainless steel bolts, washers and flat washers included
99.1% efficient
Green ROHS compliant - No Lead
Use 100% of rated capacity
Does not heat up during use
Connect in series or in parallel
One battery for 12v, 24v, 36, or 48v applications
The Smart Battery SB100 12V 100AH Lithium Ion Battery is the perfect replacement from a group 31 AGM, GEL or Lead Acid Battery. The SB100 is designed as a "drop in replacement" meaning all you have to do is take out your old group 31 battery and place the SB100 in the same way.

[tony.latham]

That's a sweet looking battery as far as it's weight and what they claim with cycles and performance.

But the price? I suspect i'll get at least 3 years on my lead-acid marine batteries. At that cost, I'd break even in about forty years. I'm sixty-three.

Perhaps in two or three new batteries (six or seven years), technology will present something that is attractive for me that won't necessitate a change to my will.

Tony

[wincrasher]

Yes, it is expensive up-front.

If you are using a big battery, like an AGM Group 31, those are around $300 and good for 300-500 cycles. So if you are a heavy user (refrigerator, inverter for some appliances like a coffee pot) it could make sense from a $ perspective. I can see this being attractive to someone full-timing or taking long tours.

If you are just doing some lights and a radio, or just a weekender, then probably not as a Group 24 lead-acid will probably suit you fine - and those are like $50.

[MtnDon]

I am interested in Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePO4) batteries and have done some limited research. The folks linked to have outdone themselves on pricing though. OTTCT has a large one in his CTC... It may be [urlhttp://www.balqon.com/store-2/#!/HIQAP-Energy-Storage-Systems/c/2860254/offset=0&sort=priceAsc]this brand[/url]. I don't recall for sure. The ones linked to here are nice in that their package is nice and clean.

The charging parameters for LifePO4 are a little different from the usual FLA (flooded lead acid) battery though. Unlike FLA, LifePO4 benefit from NOT being maintained at a 100% full charge. Life expectancy is actually better when the LifePO4 is kept in a partially charged state. LifePO4 have lower internal resistance and as a result charge more rapidly than FLA using the same charge source.

From my reading I also see there are two schools of thought on a BMS, battery maintenance system. The Balqon batteries are priced with a BMS included. They also sell cells w/o. In brief, it is possible for LifePO4 cells to wander in their voltage. If they fall too low the cell dies. Too high a voltage kills too. So the MBS is meant to measure individual cells and adjust things as needed. Can't see how that is possible with one of these from SmartBattery. Of course I have only scratched the surface with my inquiries so I may be missing something or have incorrect beliefs.

There are a few users of LifePO4 on another forum I frequent. It is dedicated to PV power systems, alternative energy. There are some RV and boat users with the LifePO4 batteries. Most have a BMS but some do not. ??? Anyhow I love the lighter weight. I love the supposedly longer useful cycle life. I love the fact they are sealed; no acid spills, no watering. However, they are not 'bulletproof', but neither are FLA. IMO, they are about 50% lighter than equivalent FLA capacity, not the 'up to 70%' that is being hawked.

I am not an early adopter of new(ish) technology when the out of pocket is as high as it is. It would be nice to learn some more from some folks who wish to experiment.

FYI, apparently die-hard off road motorcycle folks, are big users of LifePO4. Every ounce counts to them.


LifePO4 are not really new... electric vehicles use them. One of my hesitations about adopting threm for altrnative energy use is that off grid discharge cycles are different from EV cycles. So I want to see some track record established for alternative energy use. Plus out FLA are probably still good for a couple of years.

[S. Heisley]

.
That looks to be an awesome battery.
>>>>
The only problem seems to be the $1,299.99 up-front price.
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/mar ... arison.php

[wincrasher]

This video may shed a bit more light on it:



What's kinda funny is that these are the LOWER prices. They've been out for RV's since 2011. So the early adopters have worked out the bugs.

I've gotten a few messages that say that there may be issues charging LiFeP0 batteries in freezing weather, but I'm not sure it's rumors being repeated.

[MtnDon]

OK, the BMS is built in. That just leaves the price.

[GerryS]

And what a price it is! My matters is 4 years old. It's been depleted and still will run my camper, fans, tv and DVD for a weekend without a charge or solar assist. It costs les than a hundred bucks. Or I can pay several times more than that, and as a bonus deal with the idiosyncrasies of LION batteries.

I'll stick to lead acid....

[LandCommander]

As someone that has a lot of up to date info of battery technology being involved with ebikes, I can tell you that is one sexy battery, and if you have the money, why not?

As others have said, it likey won't ever really make financial sense.

But it most certainly is superior

I can tell you that much capacity cylindrical lithium batteries from china would be about $500 an the other electronics shouldn't be more than a hundred or so dollars.

This is lithium deep cycle 12v is the beginning of a new breed of battery, I'd wait a few more years for the price to come down personally, but the technology is proven.