What did you do today

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Re: What did you do today

Postby DrewsBrews » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:22 am

MickinOz wrote:I hope them there 100 pounders have been open to atmosphere for a long time.
My father in law went to the great workshop in the sky when one of those exploded.
Wasn't quite the same situation - some sort of flashback on a gas welding set, but I was stunned how much grunt there is in a 100 pounder.


I took the valves off yesterday and set them on their sides, then at an angle. After a few hours.. Ive got a spot where I can flip one upside down with the opening still clear. Once done, Ill screw the valves back on hand tight to keep rain out until Im ready to proceed. Then fill them with hose water just before I do my first cuts.


I wonder how the situation occurred with your father in law.. I didnt think propane had capability to self oxidize (typical hydrocarbon with no oxygen in the molecule). Perhaps the tank was previously filled with oxidizer, then filled with propane? Or maybe a different gas he was using. In the US I think they have completely different threads/fittings on different gas types to prevent accidentally mixing fuel/oxidizer, but I really don't know for sure.


Ive actually seen the aftermath of a propane tank caught in a structure fire. The pressure relief valve opened and would have been quite a show for a while until it was empty. But no explosion. As long as no oxidizer made it into the tank, It is rather difficult to get them to explode without blocking off all venting methods. When the tank is pretty much empty (no pressure) and the valve removed, I doubt combustion pressure could build up enough to rupture. I suppose the situation could change if the integrity of the tank is compromised by cutting into it. So I take the above precautions to keep from testing my theories.
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Re: What did you do today

Postby dbhosttexas » Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:35 am

DrewsBrews wrote:
MickinOz wrote:I hope them there 100 pounders have been open to atmosphere for a long time.
My father in law went to the great workshop in the sky when one of those exploded.
Wasn't quite the same situation - some sort of flashback on a gas welding set, but I was stunned how much grunt there is in a 100 pounder.


I took the valves off yesterday and set them on their sides, then at an angle. After a few hours.. Ive got a spot where I can flip one upside down with the opening still clear. Once done, Ill screw the valves back on hand tight to keep rain out until Im ready to proceed. Then fill them with hose water just before I do my first cuts.


I wonder how the situation occurred with your father in law.. I didnt think propane had capability to self oxidize (typical hydrocarbon with no oxygen in the molecule). Perhaps the tank was previously filled with oxidizer, then filled with propane? Or maybe a different gas he was using. In the US I think they have completely different threads/fittings on different gas types to prevent accidentally mixing fuel/oxidizer, but I really don't know for sure.


Ive actually seen the aftermath of a propane tank caught in a structure fire. The pressure relief valve opened and would have been quite a show for a while until it was empty. But no explosion. As long as no oxidizer made it into the tank, It is rather difficult to get them to explode without blocking off all venting methods. When the tank is pretty much empty (no pressure) and the valve removed, I doubt combustion pressure could build up enough to rupture. I suppose the situation could change if the integrity of the tank is compromised by cutting into it. So I take the above precautions to keep from testing my theories.


My late BIL used to take expired and no longer certifiable BBQ tanks and convert them into charcoal grills. Oh and FWIW, the late was due to cancer, not propane explosion...

The method I have seen used is remove the valve, fill the vessel with water, and let rest. THEN proceed to do the cutting operation. Once opened up, washed out, aired out remaining shaping and welding operations can continue safely.
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Re: What did you do today

Postby TheOtherSean » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:52 pm

Today I put a tarp over the camper, because I have two roof seams that need additional fiberglass work, and it is supposed to rain tomorrow. I had hoped to get more resign and do the fiberglass tonight, but an evening work meeting interfered.
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Re: What did you do today

Postby MickinOz » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:26 am

DrewsBrews wrote:I wonder how the situation occurred with your father in law.. I didnt think propane had capability to self oxidize (typical hydrocarbon with no oxygen in the molecule). Perhaps the tank was previously filled with oxidizer, then filled with propane? Or maybe a different gas he was using. In the US I think they have completely different threads/fittings on different gas types to prevent accidentally mixing fuel/oxidizer, but I really don't know for sure


It was a brand new outfit. Propane and oxygen gas welding outfit sold for the purpose, and being used as intended.
Home gas outfit, operated by an experienced maintenance man, annealing copper pipe. When he was working he did the water bore maintenance run for the highways department, pulling pumps and rebuilding them, etc. He new his way around a gas torch.
According to the guy standing next to him, who walked away with ringing ears and minor burns to his legs, the job was completed, the torch was turned off and my father in law was reaching for the valves on the cylinders when she let rip.
Blew the father in law across the shed, blew the other guy out of the door into the backyard.
He narrowly missed the bullbar on the old toyota landcruiser parked out front of the shed, otherwise he'd have sustained serious injuries, possibly even been killed too.
Blew every sheet of corrugated iron cladding off the shed, pressure formed the side fence up against the neighbour's brick garage, destroyed nearly everything in the shed. Ripped the "security mesh" out of the back door over at the house, blew tiles off the bathroom walls, blew exhaust fans out of the ceilings in the kitchen and bathrooms.

My personal belief is that you are on the money. Propane will not explode in the tank, which was clearly peeled open by an internal explosion, unless there is an oxidiser in there. It's not like acetylene. That can just plain decompose, which is why it is supplied dissolved in acetone.
So I reckon it somehow got oxygen in the LPG tank perhaps due to an equipment fault, perhaps due to an error. Add in a flash back from the torch, maybe.........

Catastrophic results.
They never quite figured out what happened. We never found the oxygen cylinder. 16 years later, it still hasn't surfaced. I reckon it is probably in someone's rainwater tank. Investigator said the hoses looked like crap. Not true, they were new but they had been shattered by the explosion, giving them the look of old perished hoses.
He was a local lad just making the move from cop to detective. I disagreed with that observation, but I figured it wasn't worth the arguing so I left him with it. The family was in shock and looking at me to hold it all together and lead the way out.

The interesting thing? Propane cylinders of that size are rented, not bought. There are only two suppliers. Each of them denied it was their serial number on the cylinder.
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Re: What did you do today

Postby noseoil » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:11 am

I found a nice used John Deere D125 lawn mower earlier this year with 5 hours on the clock. It's a few years old, but like new in all respects. Electric start, hydraulic drive, 20 HP V twin motor & runs like a champ, it's basically a small sized tractor with a mower deck. It acts more like a full sized tractor as far as power, comfort & work. Got a great deal on it, so I'm happy. The old one it replaced was a used Monkey Wards "Raton special" which means it was passed around town for about 30 years & was sort of funky to ride & cut with on our lot 1 acre lot of weeds, grass & bushes. It was like herding a goat with the steering it had (just a straight line), amazingly sloppy & the ride was like a dump truck with no load in it, rough.

I've been working on the yard & using an old wheel barrow for moving stuff around now that it's cooler & fall is here. It's fine this way, but remember the saying about wheel barrows & people? In order to be of any use, they must be pushed, but then if they are, they're easily upset. Trying to move a load of cut branches with thorns in a wheel barrow is a PITA, since the load shifts, rolls & tries to leave at any opportunity, bump or turn. Hence the latest project in the shop, a lawn cart for the tractor to haul is in the works now. I did a simple design with a sketch (I know, no such thing with me) & started building the frame yesterday. It's 2 x 2 - 16 gauge square tube, which should be plenty heavy for the small size. I'll continue to post pictures as I go. The basic trailer is 64" long & 38" wide, so it's the same width as the tractor's rear wheel track. The box will be 38" wide & 42" long, still looking at the height, but the will be later today when I break the bank buying a sheet of plywood.

Here's what the frame looks like now.
167514

The tongue has a 1 3/4" drop, since the tire size & hitch determine the offset to get a level ride.
167515

My welds are getting better now...
167516

So far so good. Next I'll start on the box, so I can have enough room to put more "stuff" in the trailer than a wheel barrow. It will have a narrow section in the lower part of the bed, then will step out as it gets above the tires for a bit more room. Heavy stuff will go in the bottom, or light stuff like branches & leaves can fill the whole thing. Should be a nice addition for working on the place. It's starting to look a lot like a teardrop, but I'm not going there this time...
Build log: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60248
The time you spend planning is more important than the time you spend building.........

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Re: What did you do today

Postby dbhosttexas » Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:46 pm

Not TNTTT related exactly, but fabbed up my reflective guylines for the instant set tent. I was just super uncomfortable with the stock guylines. They were flimsy, and lacked any sort of reflective properties...
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Re: What did you do today

Postby dbhosttexas » Fri Oct 22, 2021 4:06 pm

While prices were shooting up, everywhere else I am seeing them going for around $45.00, I found that Home Depot still had the Worthington 20lb propane cylinders for $35.99. Picked 2 up and had them filled at the local propane filler. Prices are up, a LOT. Used to be around $2.89 gallon last fall. Currently a full fill of 20lb propane / 4.7 gallons ran $18.00 or $3.83 / gallon...

I've got to fill the Flame King cylinders, and then I am going to at least try to finish off the exhange cylinder at Ren Fest, then get it refilled which should leave me with 3 20lb refills, and one 15lb exchange prior to the weather turning cold this year.

Will camp off of the 15lbs and refill as necessary, but planning on holding the 60lbs of propane in case of another major power outage. That way we have heat, cooking, and hot showers...

I still need to figure out how to stow the 20lb propane cylinder for the truck camper. WIll likely be separate spaces for travel and camp modes as I do NOT want propane inside my sleeping / living space while camping...
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Re: What did you do today

Postby MickinOz » Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:21 pm

dbhosttexas wrote:planning on holding the 60lbs of propane in case of another major power outage. That way we have heat, cooking, and hot showers...


That reminds me, time to drag the generator out of the shed and make sure it starts. Power failure is usually a summer thing here.
Won't be too worried about cooking and hot water, but do need the fridge, freezer and air conditioners.
A biggy for us is that Christmas dinner is very often right in the middle of a heat wave.

The petrol in the generator has stabiliser added, and the "Chonda" (Chinese Honda clone) engine will run on just about anything including metho and turps, but I'll make sure she starts and top her off with fresh fuel. And make sure I have a spare fuel can full.

The other thing to check is that the alternator hasn't lost its excitation. Fortunately, I know how to fix that.
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Re: What did you do today

Postby TheOtherSean » Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:05 pm

I made a Home Depot run for some corner braces to attach a shelf to some brackets inside the camper. I temporarily had it screwed together with Kreg screws through pocket holes in the brackets up into the 3/4" thick shelf, but without glue, because I'm not positive I like the arrangement and position. On the way back from my weekend camping trip last weekend it popped loose. I will use the corner braces for better temporary joins that can last indefinitely.
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Re: What did you do today

Postby noseoil » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:41 am

Back on the garden cart/trailer thing I'm building. A little more progress.

Still waiting for the tires to show up this week, so the axle location is waiting for them to verify dimensions to the hitch...
167601

The bed or box, it's stepped out above the tires for a bit more room for hauling light stuff
167602

A coat of paint has changed it again
167603

I still need to design the tail gate, but it will be hinged on the top & flap open at the bottom for unloading. I'm not making a tipping trailer for unloading, it will have to unhitch & be lifted by hand to dump stuff. It should work well enough & be light enough to do that by hand. More pictures will follow as I keep going.

Oh, I forgot to mention, a single sheet of 1/2" AC fir plywood cost $87 in our small town. Glad I only needed 1 sheet for this thing! The plywood is very nice with only one patch on the good side & the back is pretty decent as well. It's stamped as a product of Chile & has a nearly flawless 5 ply core. This is great stuff, but too spendy.
Build log: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=60248
The time you spend planning is more important than the time you spend building.........

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Re: What did you do today

Postby dbhosttexas » Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:35 am

Not sure if I mentioned it previously, so I will mention again if I did...

I have been watching prices skyrocket on propane tanks lately. 25% in the last month. Home Depot still had 20lb Worthington tanks near me for $35.00, while Lowes, Walmart etc... had run the prices up to $45.00. So I grabbed 2 from Home Depot, and took them to the propane fillers.

I was going to take one of the 15lb exchanges and fill my Flame King bottles this weekend, but we have had a LOT of lightning and rain around, don't want to be transferring propane, venting some, while giant sparks fly through the sky. So waiting for a dry day.

Mixed up some wallboard mud and laid down a skim coat in the master suite changing room. My wife stripped the wallpapaer a bit, uh, enthusiastically and left some deep gouges. So reskimming it is! That stuff is drying now.

Received a 200ft roll of reflective guyline in sky blue, along with some nice anodized blue guyline tensioners. Basically ran out of my last batch. I fabbed up new guylines for the main tent, AND the Ensuite. Need guylines for the EZ Up. And for the awning on the camper build. 200ft is most likely WAY too much but that is okay. I also have 100ft of charcoal reflective paracord to work with that will likely be used for the current brown / cream 13x13 EZ up. Yes I am trying to color match, or at least compliment. I am married after all. That is the reason I went with blue enamel steel dishes, blue plaid tablecoth, blue RV mat etc...
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Re: What did you do today

Postby featherliteCT1 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:03 pm

noseoil,
I like the way you designed your box and the bracing using triangle pieces of wood. :thumbsup:
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Re: What did you do today

Postby dbhosttexas » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:01 am

Okay this might sound dumb, but I caught up on a youtube series on a guy that built a roof top tent using thin plywood coated with epoxy / fiberglass. Looks like the framing is 3/4 marine grade ply, skin is 1/4" ply, whole assemblies are thoroughly coated with epoxy resin and fiberglass. He smoothed it using Bondo and painted it.

From the series I have seen, it looks really nice so far... A lot could transfer over to camper builds.
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Re: What did you do today

Postby rjgimp » Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:20 pm

MickinOz wrote:A biggy for us is that Christmas dinner is very often right in the middle of a heat wave.


:lol:

Heat wave at Christmas? Yeah, sometimes it gets above freezing around here.

:R
-Rob


I hope to make it to a Procrastinators Anonymous meeting someday...
just as soon as the steering committee gets around to scheduling one!
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Re: What did you do today

Postby MickinOz » Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:28 pm

rjgimp wrote:
MickinOz wrote:A biggy for us is that Christmas dinner is very often right in the middle of a heat wave.


:lol:

Heat wave at Christmas? Yeah, sometimes it gets above freezing around here.

:R

That'd be awesome. The hottest Christmas day in the last 60 years was 106 F in 2016.
hence always make sure the genny starts.
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