Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

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Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby RBB » Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:00 am

Ok... hear me out...
I am working on my design/build and the Emergency Window I picked up cheap... is pretty ugly, and doesn't match the look/aesthetic of the camper.

Is an Emergency Exit window really required??

What if i install a larger window (18" x 30" or 24" x 36" for example) that is NOT an official Emergency Exit, but it IS big enough to get out of in an emergency. Maybe even hang one of those red window smashers you see on buses next to the window...

Thoughts?

I DO plan on getting the trailer licensed and such... so it may need to pass an inspection?
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby bdosborn » Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:43 am

Apparently you do, according to NFPA 1192. Who knew? I didn't until I looked for it...

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You can get access to this article if you create a free user account at https://link.nfpa.org/free-access/publications/1192/2021

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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby Tom&Shelly » Tue Jul 02, 2024 11:52 am

A very careful read seems to suggest two doors in a teardrop is enough. For folks with only one door, an exit sign with semi-sharp corners* should be enough to bash a hole in most teardrops suitable for emergency egress. :R

Tom

*Although if the corners are sharp, you probably should have the sign read "Warning: Sharp Corners; Do not touch sign at the corners".
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby RBB » Tue Jul 02, 2024 12:34 pm

bdosborn wrote:You can get access to this article if you create a free user account...

Turns out I already had an account... guess I should save that log in!
And... yea.. buy the looks of it... it is "required".

Also looks like using the window smasher is not acceptable, as it "shall NOT require the use of a special key or tool."

So... riddle me this... how do the vintage camper rehab folks get around this?
If I am planning on registering this as the original model of the frame... would that change the requirements?
Is rehab taken into account?
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby TimC » Tue Jul 02, 2024 6:15 pm

I recently built a 4x8 foamie and decided to go with the egress window from Vintage Tech. Why? When I had my 5x8 Woodie one of the two doors would not open from the inside. Luckily I had the other door to escape from. Turns out the manufacturer of the door handle had a recall that specifically addressed an issue with a faulty lock core in the door handle. The slim chance of getting locked into the foamie without an egress far outweighed the couple hundred bucks I spent on the egress window.
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby RBB » Tue Jul 02, 2024 10:51 pm

Ok... so I have come to the conclusion that I SHOULD have one... and I may have figured out a way to "make" my own Emergency Exit windows... by modifying a frameless window...
I need to recruit my 3D printer/designer to get on the case... but I might have an idea... I will post an update when I have more!
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby QueticoBill » Wed Jul 03, 2024 6:26 am

I'm sure 2 doors complies as long as second door meets the minimum requirements.

This seems to be a standard adopted by an RV manufacturers association, and is not law. NFPA and other standards and codes are not law until a legislature adopts them.

Emergency escape and rescue windows make sense in a house or large multi compartment RV where a fire can grow some undetected and the route to the door is long, but that seems rarely the case in a teardrop. Seems like getting to a emergency window would take longer than getting out of any door.
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby tony.latham » Wed Jul 03, 2024 9:10 am

Required? Maybe.

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Needed? Maybe.

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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby Onajourney » Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:03 pm

I read it as "vehicles" only need them. A teardrop is a trailer unless yours is also drivable.
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby bdosborn » Tue Jul 09, 2024 2:29 pm

Here's the definition of an RV in the NFPA:

Recreational Vehicle. A vehicular-type unit primarily designed
as temporary living quarters for recreational, camping, or travel
use, which either has its own motive power or is mounted on or
drawn by another vehicle.

So I think a trailer is considered an RV in the eyes of a code official. I was pretty familiar with building codes before I retired and I can tell you with great certainty that my trailer doesn't meet all of the requirements in the NFPA/RVIA. It's not really something I worry about unless I decided to build and sell RVs.
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby RBB » Wed Jul 10, 2024 8:57 am

bdosborn wrote:It's not really something I worry about unless I decided to build and sell RVs.
Bruce

My concern is the process of applying for VIN and getting it registered... unfortunately, I no longer have WI plates (no plate required for trailers under 3000lbs!) :thumbsup: so eventually, I am going to need to go through the process of getting plates in IL... not looking forward to that process...
My concern is the inspection, and how much they care to look at these points...
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby tony.latham » Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:27 am

..so it may need to pass an inspection?


Each state is different, but in Idaho the inspector is looking for two things: 1) stolen parts, and 2) what's owed for sales tax (keep your receipts).

There's no safety inspection here. I could get a VIN without tail lights or safety chains.

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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby TimC » Wed Jul 10, 2024 10:36 am

RBB wrote:...
My concern is the process of applying for VIN and getting it registered... unfortunately, I no longer have WI plates (no plate required for trailers under 3000lbs!) :thumbsup: so eventually, I am going to need to go through the process of getting plates in IL... not looking forward to that process...
My concern is the inspection, and how much they care to look at these points...


Sorry, off topic but thought I would pass on some Wisconsin registration info...

RBB, you probably know this so don't be offended. I'm just passing this info on for other WI residents that may want to register their TD since they travel out of state. In Wisconsin you CAN register an RV, boat trailer, whatever, even if it is below 3000#. I have done it twice, first on my Woodie TD and now on my Foamie TD. It's not cheap... about $167 for a title (if you need a replacement it is less $) and $15 for one year registration. In an odd quirk of the WI-DMV rules, if you have a utility trailer and you want it registered it is $167 plus $50/year.

Four of the following six items are required to qualify for registering as an RV. They do allow home made campers. And, I don't know what WI's definition of "Self Contained" is. I know what most people would think it is but couldn't get the nice young lady at the Green Bay DMV to come up with an answer. She was very helpful so I didn't push her to find out as It didn't matter. I met five of the six. Anyway, this applies to Wisconsin registration of a homebuilt camper. Not nationwide.

-Water supply including faucet and sink (yes, I'm calling my 2 gallon water jug with a valve a "water supply" Good enough for WI-DMV)
-Cooking facilities (yes, I'm calling my little one burner Coleman type butane stove a "cooking facility")
-lce box/refrigeration (yes, I have a 12v fridge)
-Self contained (Whatever that is. The Big Box RV crowd undoubtedly would disagree with this. I won't bore you with the story of an online camping reservation service that refused to allow me in "their" campgrounds without a toilet and shower in the camper)
-110/125v electrical supply (yup)
-Space heating and/or A/C system (1500 watt space heater I've never used but its in there)
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Re: Emergency Egress WIndow: Required!?

Postby working on it » Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:41 am

tony.latham wrote:
..so it may need to pass an inspection?


Each state is different, but in Idaho the inspector is looking for two things: 1) stolen parts, and 2) what's owed for sales tax (keep your receipts).

There's no safety inspection here. I could get a VIN without tail lights or safety chains.

Tony


I was worried that my "recycled frame turned squareback trailer" would be deemed illegal if I was ever pulled over on the road, because I had registered it as a "utility trailer", before I built the cabin atop the floor. I shouldn't have worried, because small personal trailers aren't subject to strict inspections, registrations, and licensing in Texas, it seems. I didn't even have to show a picture of mine when registering it, and just told the clerk that the original un-readable builders' VIN tag was thrown away with the bent tongue, and that I had bought it as a throw-away at a swap meet for $50, 18-19 years previously, and it wasn't ever tagged before. No problem, got the registration done in minutes.
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It's also a thing here (maybe not-so in other regions), that certain people aren't ever pulled over for their "landscaper's" trailers, despite not having safety chains, working lights, or even properly secured loads. Sometimes, I'll see the same dual-axle trailer missing a wheel on each side, with may-pops installed...obviously they're getting a free-pass from local LEO's. I doubt that I would, so I follow the requirements (mostly).
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