Insulation in action - why it's important

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Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby philpom » Sat Jan 11, 2025 5:29 pm

Like many we have had very cold weather and days of snow and ice. I decided it would be a good time to test a small heater I have and see if it could warm our tiny camper. We have a small space heater that easily heats it up but the one I tested was tiny. The kind you might warm your feet with under your desk.

I set it to high and left it to run for 8 hours checking every hour or so. At the first hour it was warmer inside but not cozy. To be fare it took 2 hours to get it cozy inside where the other would take 15 minutes but it got the temp up to 80°f. This was from a cold frigid start and gave me a greater than 50° swing.

I know from showing up at our cabin in the winter after months away the building itself is cold. Starting the wood stove puts hot air in the room but it is absorbed by the structure and must equalize before it gets cozy inside. Once you hit that point it doesn't take much to keep it there.

I mentioned insulation... I insulated only the ceiling and floor of our camper. With the inside temperature at 80°f for over 8 hours and outdoors in the mid 20s with everything covered in snow and ice enough heat could not escape to melt the snow load on the camper. When I started I was certain I would see excessive melt but I observed none. Excellent! While insulation in the walls would be better it's not required to be very comfortable.
I think the ceiling is where you get the biggest bang for your buck. Let's call it essential. This has also been proven in a Texas summer cooling the camper down.

These pictures were taken after the 8 hours.

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I'm curious on others opinions, I am always one of those where more is better, why use a tack when you can use a 3" deck screw? At the end of the day there is an acceptable baseline.
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Re: Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby S. Heisley » Sat Jan 11, 2025 9:14 pm

My trailer has 3/4" Styrofoam insulation in the top, bottom, and all sides; with 1 & 1/2" Styrofoam in the small, stationary portions of the roof. (I had the room there, so why not!) I've camped down to 28 degrees and not had a problem. Body heat does a good job. I do not use a heater but my stove is inside and just heating the teakettle for a cup of coffee will help raise the temperature inside about 8 to 10 degrees. If it starts to get too warm, (rare) I just open a window.

My first fixer-up home had no insulation anywhere. I added cellulose insulation between the studs in the attic area and it made a 10 degree difference both in the winter and the summer.

Insulation is a big thumbs up!
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Re: Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby tony.latham » Sun Jan 12, 2025 12:40 am

I'm curious on others opinions, I am always one of those where more is better


I've experienced lots of condensation on a solid-walled teardrop on cold nights--back in the day. And that's with the windows cracked. So I always add 3/4" insulation to the walls.

I swear by our Propex heater. 180º thermostatically controlled heat. We never camp where there's an outlet, so a 120-volt heater isn't an option.

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They ain't cheap, but heat is good when it's cold. :applause:

Nice write-up!

Tony
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Re: Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby Pmullen503 » Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:43 am

Having camped several times in below zero temperatures, without heat in a foamy, I think in terms of comfort, wall and floor insulation make a significant difference.

I've winter camped for years in a tent, I have the equipment for it. I can say that even without heat and the amount of ventilation a TD requires, my foamy is 15 degrees warmer that a tent. Not necessarily the air temperature, but in terms of comfort. That means a sleeping bag normally good to about 15 degrees in a tent, is good to zero degrees in the TD.

You'll never regret insulating the walls and floors.
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Re: Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby philpom » Sun Jan 12, 2025 1:35 pm

Pmullen503 wrote:Having camped several times in below zero temperatures, without heat in a foamy, I think in terms of comfort, wall and floor insulation make a significant difference.

I've winter camped for years in a tent, I have the equipment for it. I can say that even without heat and the amount of ventilation a TD requires, my foamy is 15 degrees warmer that a tent. Not necessarily the air temperature, but in terms of comfort. That means a sleeping bag normally good to about 15 degrees in a tent, is good to zero degrees in the TD.

You'll never regret insulating the walls and floors.


I agree with you that wall, floor and ceiling is the absolute best option and provides superior results. My thought though is that for simplicity of the build and depending on the use case one should never leave out insulating the floor and ceiling but you could get away without doing the walls if the material used offers some R value. We have seen some condensation on the glass of the door and along the bottom of the door. Our side windows have heavy blackout curtains and don't seem to suffer from condensation as much. I need to get some foam packer rod and push it in the small gap under the door sill along the bottom edge because I think a small amount of air get's in at that point.

We have tent camped for our entire marriage (30 years). We have done our share of car camping but prefer hiking in and going primitive. The freezing cold trips have been among our most memorable. Condensation in a tent is an awful problem with no real cure.

Nice to meet someone crazy like us!
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Re: Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby philpom » Sun Jan 12, 2025 1:53 pm

tony.latham wrote:
I'm curious on others opinions, I am always one of those where more is better


I've experienced lots of condensation on a solid-walled teardrop on cold nights--back in the day. And that's with the windows cracked. So I always add 3/4" insulation to the walls.

I swear by our Propex heater. 180º thermostatically controlled heat. We never camp where there's an outlet, so a 120-volt heater isn't an option.

Image

They ain't cheap, but heat is good when it's cold. :applause:

Nice write-up!

Tony


A Propex would be nice, IF (giant if) I ever build another it will probably be 6x10 so I can fit more infrastructure in to it without sacrificing space inside. I know space is subjective. I have a small quiet inverter generator that will run AC or Heat should we need it somewhere without power. Living in Texas, most of our camping is done during the 9 months of summer, it doesn't cool off much at night. We do a significant number of State Parks and those generally have power if needed.

We have been looking at a few spots with great potential, The LBJ Grasslands allows dispersed camping and Big Bend is on our list for sure. My understanding is that Big Bend State Park is a more remote experience than Big Bend National Park. While neither allow for dispersed camping you can get many, many miles from anyone. A Propex heater could come in very handy out there, zero power and a days trip from a gas station. Insulation would be very helpful if one wanted to cool down the camper during the day but didn't want to run the generator more than an hour or 3 a day to conserve fuel.
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Re: Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby Pmullen503 » Sun Jan 12, 2025 3:06 pm

philpom wrote:.....We have seen some condensation on the glass of the door and along the bottom of the door. Our side windows have heavy blackout curtains and don't seem to suffer from condensation as much.......

Condensation in a tent is an awful problem with no real cure.

Nice to meet someone crazy like us!


I get little spots of frost on the inside everywhere there is an anchor screw into the foam when it's really cold.

When the condensation in the tent freezes, just shake it off in the morning and make a snowball and throw it out the flap. My days of sub zero camping are probably past for me. Though it was vastly better in my foamie.
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Re: Insulation in action - why it's important

Postby Modstock » Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:43 pm

Another crazy cold camper here.
1 inch insulation top bottom and walls. Used to have a heater buddy from our teardrop but one night using that in the cargo trailer had alot of condensation. Converted to wood stove and hardly any condensation, just on any exposed aluminum trim.
A good sleeping bag is still required.
Ours is a 5 degree, extra large bag.
I usually heat up the trailer before bed and let the fire die. Im warm all night.
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I also have a 13-1500 electric heater that was gifted to me. It's been 3 yrs and this cheap $25 heater works surprisingly well. Only gripe is its noisy but eventually I tune it out.
During the winter spots with power are a bit cheaper cause they turn off the water.

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