Help me choose a new Tow Vehicle

[wired]

I am looking around for a TV in the next year. I don't wnat to step on any toes, but here are my perceptions. Liked the TDI's but have had a '99 Passat in the past that was problematic. Everyone I talk to with a new(er) VW complains about electrical issues, plus on a TDI I do not want to have to replace a timing belt every 50k miles, (don't know why VW doesn't change the design) not to mention that I think German cars are waaay expensive to have worked on...
Looked seriously at Subarus, and I know they have a very loyal following, but all I have read about are head gasket issues, which arguably have yet to be proven that the problems have been rectified as of yet. It doesn't help that Subaru of America does not seem to acknowledge the (obvious) problem. Hmmm. Also I asked a friend that owns a highly respected auto repair facility in town what he knew about Subarus. He said he does a LOT of work on a LOT of them, and I would be going from the realm of a totally trouble free driving experience (2005 Prius with 140K on the odometer that has NEVER been in the shop - even has original brakes. The only work ever done was change the sparkplugs, drive belt and fluids at 120K) to that of a high maintenance trouble prone car. That being said, there sure are a lot of Subarus in the SF Bay Area and, apparently, a lot of Subaru loyalists).
As I need good MPG's (will also be my commute vehicle), and I need AWD, with a halfway decent tow capacity (1500# is fine), at this point I have it narrowed down to the 2010 (or newer) CRV (which is 180HP vs the 2009 @166HP) or the 2009 (or newer) Rav4 (@179 HP vs the 2008 166HP), either one in AWD.
I would be curious to know anyone's towing experience with either of the aforementioned vehicles, and, if you own either the TDI or the Subaru, what is your repair history in regards to the aforementioned problems.
As with politics and religion, I realize that brand loyalty can be a passionate subject to some folks, so if I did step on any toes, it was unintentional and I offer my sincere apologies!

[McBrew]

I am looking around for a TV in the next year. I don't wnat to step on any toes, but here are my perceptions. Liked the TDI's but have had a '99 Passat in the past that was problematic. Everyone I talk to with a new(er) VW complains about electrical issues, plus on a TDI I do not want to have to replace a timing belt every 50k miles, (don't know why VW doesn't change the design) not to mention that I think German cars are waaay expensive to have worked on...
Looked seriously at Subarus, and I know they have a very loyal following, but all I have read about are head gasket issues, which apparently (at least to me) have yet to be proven that the problems have been rectified as of yet. It doesn't help that Subaru of America does not seem to acknowledge the (obvious) problem. Hmmm. Also I asked a friend that owns a highly respected auto repair facility in town what he knew about Subarus. He said he does a LOT of work on a LOT of them, and I would be going from the realm of a totally trouble free driving experience (2005 Prius with 140K on the odometer that has NEVER been in the shop - even has original brakes. The only work ever done was change the sparkplugs, drive belt and fluids at 120K) to that of a high maintenance trouble prone car. That being said, there sure are a lot of Subarus in the SF Bay Area and, apparently, a lot of Subaru loyalists).
As I need good MPG's (will also be my commute vehicle), and I need AWD, with a halfway decent tow capacity (1500# is fine), at this point I have it narrowed down to the 2010 (or newer) CRV (which is 180HP vs the 2009 @166HP) or the 2009 (or newer) Rav4 (@179 HP vs the 2008 166HP), either one in AWD.
I would be curious to know anyone's towing experience with either of the aforementioned vehicles, and, if you own either the TDI or the Subaru, what is your repair history in regards to the aforementioned problems.
As with politics and religion, I realize that brand loyalty can be a passionate subject to some folks, so if I did step on any toes, it was unintentional and I offer my sincere apologies!

I have owned a few VW TDIs and my current 2011 Subaru Outback. A few things I will say: VW has long since gone to a 100k mile timing belt. Having said that, the timing belt is an expensive job and is often done wrong, which can lead to a ruined engine.

Subaru seams to have addressed the head gasket issues, from what I can see. Most of the problems were in the late 90s and early 00s.

As far as AWD vehicles go, a lot depends on your needs. The thing I like about Subaru is that all wheels receive power all of the time. With Honda, Toyota, and others, the front wheels have to lose traction before any power is sent to the rear wheels. Subaru is all about preventing a loss of traction in the first place. There are three different AWD system on the current lineup of subarus -- one for the 2.5 manual trans, one for the 2.5 CVT, and one for the 3.6. The one on the 2.5 w/CVT (like I have) sends at least 20% of the power to the rear wheels, but can send up to 50% to the rear. The adjustment is not perceivable to the driver.

I really like this setup, because you have traction when you need it -- when taking off from a stop, towing a trailer, etc. without having to lose traction first. I recognize that the CRV and RAV4 are ice vehicles, but they are behind Subaru when it comes to implementing the AWD system.

[wired]

Thanks for your input Jesse. I do really like the Subarus. Yesterday I went and looked at both a CRV and Rav4 and I did not realize how small they were until I sat in them. I do not recall either the Forester or 2010+ Outback being that small. I am a big guy (6'2" 250#) and comfort will definitely be a factor for me. May have to look at Subaru's again.
If you don't mind me asking, why did you switch from TDI's to Subaru, and how many miles do yu have on the Subaru?
Thanks!

Best,
Paul

[notned]

Hi Jesse, could you also talk about your transmission and engine size. I like the idea of a four cylinder but my wife is certain that they can't tow a 1200 lb teardrop.

[jonnyo]

i do pull with the 2.5 subaru manual.....and it s definitly not a issue. Oh...but i do have the wrx version so there is a turbo to it

But i also drove the regular 2.5I impreza and pulling 1200lbs wasnt a problem, but subaru does require you to have electric brake on the trailer for more than 1000lbs.

I love my subaru, best car for the canadian winter. It s one of the very popular car in the west canada because of the mountain, heavy snow etc...reliability asnt been a issue, one of the most reliable actually.

[wired]

i do pull with the 2.5 subaru manual.....and it s definitly not a issue. Oh...buy i do have the wrx version so there is a turbo to it

But i also drove the regular 2.5I impreza and pulling 1200lbs wasnt a problem, but subaru does require you to have electric brake on the trailer for more than 1000lbs.

I love my subaru, best car for the canadian winter. It s one of the very popular car in the west canada because of the mountain, heavy snow etc...reliability asnt been a issue, one of the most reliable actually.

So what year is your Subaru? I am scared about the head gasket problems, although if I do purchase one it will probably be an 08 or later. Not sure if they got the problem licked or not...

[absolutsnwbrdr]

i do pull with the 2.5 subaru manual.....and it s definitly not a issue. Oh...buy i do have the wrx version so there is a turbo to it

But i also drove the regular 2.5I impreza and pulling 1200lbs wasnt a problem, but subaru does require you to have electric brake on the trailer for more than 1000lbs.

I love my subaru, best car for the canadian winter. It s one of the very popular car in the west canada because of the mountain, heavy snow etc...reliability asnt been a issue, one of the most reliable actually.

So what year is your Subaru? I am scared about the head gasket problems, although if I do purchase one it will probably be an 08 or later. Not sure if they got the problem licked or not...

Head gaskets havent been an issue for a few years. I think 04 was the last year. I have an '05 (H6) with 125k and no problems. Its still just a baby.

[jonnyo]

my 2010 Wrx manual 5000km!!!!!

car still running in my family,
Dad, 2004 outback automatic 350 000km, normal maintenance
Mon 2005 legacy automatic 220 000km normal maintenance

we also had another outback/impreza...2003ish a few years ago and sold it at the mid 200 000km.....was reliable also so i never felt like going to another brand. All those car drive in the hard winter so safety and AWD is a big factor that kept me driving Subaru. And the Wrx bring the pleasure to driving!!!

the only downside of subaru is fuel economy. The new 2012 models are improving big time on that aspect.

[McBrew]

Thanks for your input Jesse. I do really like the Subarus. Yesterday I went and looked at both a CRV and Rav4 and I did not realize how small they were until I sat in them. I do not recall either the Forester or 2010+ Outback being that small. I am a big guy (6'2" 250#) and comfort will definitely be a factor for me. May have to look at Subaru's again.
If you don't mind me asking, why did you switch from TDI's to Subaru, and how many miles do yu have on the Subaru?
Thanks!

Best,
Paul

TDIs can be a maintenance nightmare. We have had six in the family, and three of them have been okay, but others were troublesome.

I only have 7,500 miles on the Subaru so far.

[McBrew]

Hi Jesse, could you also talk about your transmission and engine size. I like the idea of a four cylinder but my wife is certain that they can't tow a 1200 lb teardrop.

Tell her not to worry. The 2.5 liter with the CVT transmission is rated to tow 2,700 pounds in the US and 4,000 pounds in Europe. You just have to watch the tongue weight, which is limited to 200 pounds on either side of the Atlantic.

I just towed my utility trailer with a full size fridge (upright) and a bunch of tools. I would estimate that it was around 800-900 pounds. Half way home, I forgot it was back there. I'm glad I remembered it right before I pulled into the drive-thru!

It pulls the Scamp like a champ. I used to tow it with a 128 horsepower sub-compact car, so a 2.5 liter 170 horsepower mid-size wagon/SUV is a big upgrade for me. AWD is great for getting it up my steep gravel driveway.

[wired]

I appreciate all the input. I have spoken with a few dedicated Subaru mechanics and they said the same thing re:head gasket issues. Anything after 04/05 should not have those issues. Looks like I will be looking at some more Subaru's! (Which I am glad, because they were my first choice)

[notned]

Thanks Jesse. I don't have trailer brakes, do you?

[McBrew]

Thanks Jesse. I don't have trailer brakes, do you?

No, I don't. If I end up replacing the axle, I will add brakes to it. As of yet, I don't have a controller wired in. Subaru seems to have pre-wired the car for just about everything except trailer brakes. I don't mind running the wires, but it would have been nice not to have to.

[Pete S]

After reading on the forester forum about people pulling 2500 lb a-liner campers (god knows how much gear...) through the mountains I was convinced.

Forester tidbits I picked up while shopping foresters:

>Around '10 or ''11 the forester got the new fb25 2.5 engine with a timing chain instead of timing belt. If the belt breaks the pistons make a mess of the valves...

> '12 gets a passenger seat that adjusts up and down. I got the sense from the forums that the low passenger seat was one of the biggest gripes about the car. We like the adjustable one...

>Torque curve seems to come in at WAY lower rpms (on the charts) than our previous car and others we looked at. At highway speeds you are already a good ways up the curve where our previous sedan had to rev pretty hard to make torque.

> Highway rpms seem to be a few hundred higher that our previous sedan. Hopefully that and the torque will add up to less time in passing gear.

> I got the sense that the auto transmission is pretty bulletproof. CVT would get a couple more mpgs but may not be as durable (once again, from the forester forums). AT comes standard with a transmission cooler...

> As soon as you start driving one you'll notice that it actually has suspension in the rear that sedans just don't get. Personally I think it rides like a 2wd little pickup with a topper (of which I've had a few).

> The seats seem a little narrow. Only a problem if you are a bit pear-shaped...

Weird thing is I have never considered a Subaru. Now my gal has one and I find myself pretty jealous. Damn...

[wagondude]

I also have a Subaru ( well, three of them). My '98 (phase 1 2.5...the one with the worst head gasket issues) has 263K on it. I am the fourth owner, so I am sure the repair was made. I also have an '06 and a 2010 with the CVT. Earlier post suggested tha SOA was not admitting problems with head gaskets. I would tend to say that is not the case as I have heard of many cases where SOA paid for all or part of the repair on cars that were well outside of the warranty. Also, if you feel you need more space, you could consider the Tribeca. It only comes with the six cylinder so no timing belt or head gasket issues at all to worry about. Also, drivers of the 2010 and up outbacks with the 3.6 report fuel economy nearly as good as the 2.5/CVT.

Bill