Fiber glassing when it's cold

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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby grantstew8 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:36 am

Thank you all for the help. you guys are awesome! :thumbsup:

I'm going to try tenting it and leaving a light or a heater, (checking for fire risk) and the feed back the results.
On that note, I'm also going to attempt a small section of scrap ply with the pigment and check the results.

I'll keep you posted. This week is a zoo so I may only get to it this weekend.
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby Kody » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:33 am

Gudday Grant,
Hopefully I can help you out on this. I have build many boats and repaired them with Polyester resins and fiberglass cloth/mat. I have also used epoxy and Kevlar to build RPV's and repair F/G cruisers which were a great success. One thing is absolutely essential when working with epoxy resin. The resin and the hardener MUST be EXACTLY matched to each other. I have had the greatest success by weighing out the resins and matching the proportions by weight, within 1 gram. Any variation on this will spell disaster in big $'s. To mix the resins, pour part "A" into a container and part "B" into another container to get the weight correct. Pour the hardener into the resin and mix. Then pour the entire mixture into the container that held the hardener. Scrape every drop of resin out of the mixed resins to get the balance of the mixture correct. (These were the directions on the containers of the resins.) You can try what I do and add the hardener into the resin with the container sitting on a sensitive scale. Be very careful if you do it this way. Whatever way you establish the amounts of resin, be very accurate. It may be better to weigh out the hardener and then add the resin. One gram of extra resin will be ok but 1 gram of hardener extra can be a disaster. It is also very important to work at the temperature as stated on the container. Too cold and it wont cure, or take days to set. Too hot and it goes off while you stir it. You can buy hardener that will suit your requirements as to setting fast or slow but keep in mind the temperature is very important to also being critical as well. Epoxy is terrible stuff to get off your hands, arms, skin etc. The very best way to clean up is to wash your hands in cheap white vinegar. You will be amazed how effective this
works. If the brushes are still "uncured", wash them in vinegar as well.

Polyester resin comes in two basic forms, waxed and unwaxed. The unwaxed resin will "cure" to leave a very sticky surface. This is so another layer of glass cloth/mat can be applied and the resin will adhere to the sticky surface with no problems. When laying the final layer of glass the last mix of polyester resin must be a "Waxed" resin. This resin has wax in it that floats to the surface as the resin cures. The resin will have a smooth hard surface when this is used and the wax is washed off. I think I used acetone for this but wait until the resin has cured for about 3 to 7 days.

The correct amount of hardener (Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide) to use with Polyester is no more than 2% and not less than 1%. More than this and the resin may develop serious cracks all through it. Less than 1% and the resin will not achieve the required strength. To ensure that the resin cures, the temperature is again very important. If you can maintain a minimum of 20 C (25 C is better) you will have the best cure and highest strength. You can use up to 3 % but be careful if the weather is warm to hot.
It is absolutely essential that the humidity be as dry as possible. I laid some polyester when the temp was around 20 C to 25 C and it was raining. The humidity was around 99%. This caused the resin to wrinkle on the bottom surface in the female mold and it was not nice. Fortunately, it was in a small area and could be ground out later and filled. The more hardener you add, the more the curing resin will shrink and develop cracks. It also gets very hot when the ambient temperature is above 30 C. Polyester resin will actually cure into a very hard resin using only 0.3% hardener. This requires a temp of around 25 C. I cast some solid blocks as 150 mm cubes using polyester resin and 0.3 % hardener. It may have been only 0.2%. It took over a week to cure but it did "go off" and cure to a hard block. Any greater percentage of hardener, and the blocks would have cracked as the resin would have shrunk too much. Clean up with Acetone, I haven't tried vinegar with this. Regardless of how you clean up, it's a messy chore.
Hope this helps out,

What Michael R Sydney has said is very good info.

Kody
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby grantstew8 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:49 am

Thank you all for your really useful info and advice.

In reality I did not add a huge amount more catalyst. I needed to ad 2ml and added around 3. I'm switching to a syringe rather than a cough mixture measuring cup, or as Kody suggests, a scale.

Last night I added resin, catalyst (accurately) and pigment (Pirate red which looks orange) and coated the wheel arches/fenders and added some fibreglass to that, and re-coated over the fibreglass.
Rather than tent them with plastic, I put them inside the TD and turned on a 150w flood light. In the video it was under the wheel arch (fire hazard) Overnight I put it between the wheel arches and left it burning. IT was cosy and warm in there.

In the morning the thicker sections had set, not tacky at all, however the thinner areas (just painted) were still tacky. This may be because it's not waxed. However I've left them in the warm TD with the light on and I'll check tonight on progress.

Again, thank you all

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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby grantstew8 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:18 pm

I'm delighted to tell you that the thicker sections with glass tape have cured and are not tacky in the slightest and some of the paint has cured too. The 150w light will stay on tonight and Ill check again tomorrow night.

I guess it just needed heat, some time (and some reassurance).

The relief is immense. :)
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby angib » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:32 pm

One trick I've seen used on polyester laminate that had not gone off in cold temperatures was to laminate over it with a 'hot mix' - that is, a resin mix with such a high level of catalyst that it would cure quickly and get hot while doing so. The heat from the curing 'hot mix' then kicks off the cure in the regular resin beneath it. I was surprised to find it works quite well.

Incidentally, when I said 'hot mix', I mean hot - the laminator put the unused resin outside as even when spread out in a roller tray, it got hot enough to start smoking though not actually break into flames.

Of course, this is utterly unsuitable to use on epoxy where the hardener ratio must not be altered.
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby grantstew8 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:04 pm

Replacing the 150w bulb with a 2 bar heater inside the td did the trick. All fire precautions taken. Everything has set and nothing is tacky or sticky. With that success I'm going to fiberglass the inside tongue box for strength, tomorrow.

My woodburning stove is now installed and I've had a short test burn. Video to follow...
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby tony.latham » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:35 pm

grantstew8 wrote:Replacing the 150w bulb with a 2 bar heater inside the td did the trick. All fire precautions taken. Everything has set and nothing is tacky or sticky. With that success I'm going to fiberglass the inside tongue box for strength, tomorrow.

My woodburning stove is now installed and I've had a short test burn. Video to follow...


:thumbsup:

Tony :beer:
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby angib » Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:56 am

grantstew8 wrote:Replacing the 150w bulb with a 2 bar heater inside the td did the trick

That's like cheating - using the teardrop as the tent....
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:46 pm

Glad it is working out for you, Grant. :thumbsup:
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Re: Fiber glassing when it's cold

Postby grantstew8 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:00 pm

Thank you all. I've used my td "tent" today to cure the fibreglass on the tongue box and body filler in my tail lights. It works like a charm; I thought of making a plastic tent, and out of sheer laziness and lack of large enough plastic sheeting I needed an alternate option. Brainwave!
:)
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