Stealth Camping

[jstrubberg]

I think it's a different mindset. This guy and a couple others I follow are full time nomads. To stay in a place like a state park could easily cost them as much as an apartment or even as a house payments for a modest home.

"I can't afford it" is not a justification for breaking the law. That's the only reason for the stealth. This kind of thing is illegal in most communities.

[Socal Tom]

I think it's a different mindset. This guy and a couple others I follow are full time nomads. To stay in a place like a state park could easily cost them as much as an apartment or even as a house payments for a modest home.

"I can't afford it" is not a justification for breaking the law. That's the only reason for the stealth. This kind of thing is illegal in most communities.

It's legal in many places, and I'm not sure it's actually illegal " in most". What we are talking about is parking a vehicle overnight. That's not illegal. If the vehicle is an RV then it can attract attention, and you can't set up a camp,in a street some where, that probably is illegal. But I'm sure it can be done legally in many places.
Driving over the speed limit is also illegal, but I'm betting it hasn't stopped all of us from doing that.
Tom

[wincrasher]

After 1 day of the readership fussing at him, Glenn restored his old blog postings. It's a good, interesting read and I recommend it.

http://www.tosimplify.net

[S. Heisley]

The authors background is law enforcement. His career provided him with skill sets and knowledge base on avoiding and dealing with difficult situations. The articles intention is to showcase stealth camping can occur, does not provide information on how to handle/negotiate when he has been asked to move or been confronted by criminal elements.

To me this article is a basis for discussion to determine if stealth camping is a lifestyle choice versus an occasional overnight adventure. Future articles on situation avoidance and self defense would provide full timers interested in stealth camping useful information.

Jean

I think Jean makes some valid points; and, this thread, begun by Shadow Catcher, has sparked some interesting conversational posts.

Actually, I, too, can see that two different kinds of "stealth camping" are possible, even though most of us probably wouldn't do much of it.

Long term "stealth camping" is, in my opinion, not an option for most of us and should probably be called "stealth living". There are many things to carefully consider when planning to do "stealth living" as a choice. Stealth living can be a dangerous and unhealthy life style as I think the body and mind need more than a parking lot or an occasional look at a park, not to mention feeling safe from neighborhood hoodlums and the like. One might also consider that many transient people are "stealth lifers" and few of us would want that life style or want to be grouped in that category.

"Stealth camping", on the other hand, could become necessary for any of us, in certain situations where we may not get to our next camping destination for some reason or are trying to make it from one location to another with limited funds and/or time; and, this gives us something to think about. Also, let's not forget that many BLM lands allow free camping and can be a valid option for a beautiful weekend.

Still, most of the article that we originally were referring to is for long-term, one-day-at-a-time, CITY camping. Again, I must say that this type of camping is not my cup of tea and I am definitely not one who likes to camp in the concrete jungle of the city. While I'll admit that I am fond of certain camping amenities, I even avoid campgrounds where parking lots are offered and considered "camping".

[jstrubberg]

I think it's a different mindset. This guy and a couple others I follow are full time nomads. To stay in a place like a state park could easily cost them as much as an apartment or even as a house payments for a modest home.

"I can't afford it" is not a justification for breaking the law. That's the only reason for the stealth. This kind of thing is illegal in most communities.

It's legal in many places, and I'm not sure it's actually illegal " in most". What we are talking about is parking a vehicle overnight. That's not illegal. If the vehicle is an RV then it can attract attention, and you can't set up a camp,in a street some where, that probably is illegal. But I'm sure it can be done legally in many places.
Driving over the speed limit is also illegal, but I'm betting it hasn't stopped all of us from doing that.
Tom

Most municipalities have ordinances against overnight parking outside of specific areas. This is exactly why so many Wal Marts don't and can't allow parking lot camping anymore.

If it was legal, stealth wouldn't be required. Preferred maybe, in some instances.

[kayakdlk]

On the "tosimplify.net" site all you have to do is click on the 1.0 link (3rd sentence down) and it will take you to his previous data. You can also go to http://tosimplifyold.blogspot.com/2009/06/my-van.html and start at the beginning.

Dan

[minstrel]

I don't think the word "camping" is the right description for this activity. At least not my idea of what camping is......enjoying nature, campfires with roast marshmallows, kids catching lizard, fireflies, snakes and anything else, hiking, swimming holes or pools, reading under a tree with a good glass of wine, grilling out. Stealth living might be the better name, and some people may feel the need to do this because of money, but it would not be for me....Parking in a deserted city lot, or in a warehouse district or on a deserted street is not camping at all, in my humble opinion.
Liz

[Vedette]

I don't think the word "camping" is the right description for this activity. At least not my idea of what camping is......enjoying nature, campfires with roast marshmallows, kids catching lizard, fireflies, snakes and anything else, hiking, swimming holes or pools, reading under a tree with a good glass of wine, grilling out. Stealth living might be the better name, and some people may feel the need to do this because of money, but it would not be for me....Parking in a deserted city lot, or in a warehouse district or on a deserted street is not camping at all, in my humble opinion.
Liz

Well said!
Good Roads
Brian & Sandi

[Dalorin]

Laws exist by the consent of the governed. Laws are repealed when the governed no longer consent. The last decade law enforcement has been transformed into a tool to protect wealth. The word policeman means 'man of the city.' We don't have those anymore. We're left with a lot of laws meant to be broken. For revenue if no other reason.

Young people have little left in the way of a future. Automation and self driving vehicles will wipe out what jobs remain over the next twenty years. It shouldn't surprise anyone that bands of men in their twenties are already living in vans and drifting from one odd job to the next. This has happened before in the United States.

I still remember the tent city in Louisville that nobody seemed to want to talk about.

I have to wonder if this article was written for these folks. The new Roma of America.

One thing I'm confident of, your going to see a lot more people 'camping' in the streets. Once the numbers are high enough they won't care about being stealth anyway.

[dales133]

There should be no law against people socially or economicaly preventing people to sleep anywhere that's a public place in thier own property
To make it prohibited is bogus to say the least.
It does no harm and if it gets someone employment or better opertunities who are we to judge

[southpier]

unfortunately, most do not want to see the private practices of others. that's why there are doors on bathrooms.

stealth camping skills can come in handy when going from one place to another.

when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[GerryS]

I don't think the word "camping" is the right description for this activity. At least not my idea of what camping is......enjoying nature, campfires with roast marshmallows..., Liz

This is perfect. As Aquinas would perhaps say "First, we start with definitions..." What this guy is doing, I don't think most of us would see as camping. I don't. I don't have a name for it yet...it could be gypsie or hobo, it could be trespassing, it could be nomadic. But I don't thinks camping. Efforts now, calling in stealthing (ironically, spell check want "steal thing". )

I just can't see why one would do this unless they were either blasting cross county and didn't want to spend $15 bucks for a state park non-electric site with a shower and fire ring. What most of us do is for pure relaxation and enjoyment of the outdoors away from life stresses and jobs.

I won't go so far as to say what he is doing is immoral (lots of immoral things are legal) but it seems to me that this option is extreme.

Here's the thing, land with rare exception is owned by some one. Individual, or company. If not then most likely its government. Should government own land? Now there's an interesting question that will quickly degrade into using words like nazi and hitter. Regardless, as it is now, landowners can say how their property is used. And if a community collectively decides they don't want nomads on the street, I think that's fine for them not to allow it.

Let's face it, there are bad people in the world, And I wouldn't want a random stranger hanging around my home when I was at work. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to know who your neighbors are.

But I can also see the argument freedom of movement not being encumbered by regulation. I don't think there's an easy answer.

I'll stick to camp fires, coolers of adult beverages, and sleeping listening to birds and crickets.

[dales133]

unfortunately, most do not want to see the private practices of others. that's why there are doors on bathrooms.

stealth camping skills can come in handy when going from one place to another.

when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

I don't agree with people sleeping on the streets because that is truly inexcusable.
None should ever be in a position that they feel that's thier only option and no decent society can hold its head high while they trod on the weak.
Wasn't it socrates who said you can judge the richness of society by the way they treat the misfortionate.
Not that sleeping in something you own yourself that's registered to be on the road shouldn't be allowed to follow the same road rules as any other vehicle, occupied or not. You've already paid for the privalidge

[Dalorin]

unfortunately, most do not want to see the private practices of others. that's why there are doors on bathrooms.

stealth camping skills can come in handy when going from one place to another.

when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

I don't agree with people sleeping on the streets because that is truly inexcusable.
None should ever be in a position that they feel that's thier only option and no decent society can hold its head high while they trod on the weak.
Wasn't it socrates who said you can judge the richness of society by the way they treat the misfortionate.

Narcissists don't care about people in the street. They don't have peers. Every other person around them is an obstacle in the way to them becoming the greatest person on earth (whatever the crap that means). A narcissist looks out at that street full of people and he smiles when he thinks how he's beaten them all. Victory. He thinks about how they should all be institutionalized so they can be corrected. Made more perfect like him. The really helpless ones should be put down for their own good. It's just cruel to keep them around.

Sorry folks. I don't want to be negative but I come from a small town and I've been working in the big city for the last three years. It's been a bit of an eye opener. I won't say anything else about it. But trust me, this kind of mindset is out there in force and it's making laws.

[dales133]

unfortunately, most do not want to see the private practices of others. that's why there are doors on bathrooms.

stealth camping skills can come in handy when going from one place to another.

when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

I don't agree with people sleeping on the streets because that is truly inexcusable.
None should ever be in a position that they feel that's thier only option and no decent society can hold its head high while they trod on the weak.
Wasn't it socrates who said you can judge the richness of society by the way they treat the misfortionate.

Narcissists don't care about people in the street. They don't have peers. Every other person around them is an obstacle in the way to them becoming the greatest person on earth (whatever the crap that means). A narcissist looks out at that street full of people and he smiles when he thinks how he's beaten them all. Victory. He thinks about how they should all be institutionalized so they can be corrected. Made more perfect like him. The really helpless ones should be put down for their own good. It's just cruel to keep them around.

Sorry folks. I don't want to be negative but I come from a small town and I've been working in the big city for the last three years. It's been a bit of an eye opener. I won't say anything else about it. But trust me, this kind of mindset is out there in force and it's making laws.

I'm from a country with less than 1/4 the population of the one I'm living in now and it's a very narsacistic place.
I totaly get you.
I cannot comprehend the thought process or life it takes to become such a self en dullest arse hat.
Having said that my partners kids are two of the laziest most needy selfish narsacistic people I've ever met and no end of stress on my relationship.
Ones 22 and the others 21 this year and has to consult her mother on what she needs to take to stay at a friends place. And does nothing for herself or anyone else
But I fear that's the norm for a whole generation.god help us