Hey Russ How you doing?

[southpennrailroad]

Mitch

The tank was totally empty. Remember I started out with a fukk fresh tank when I first started up the new furnace, Wow Three days. I am now going to have to change my strategy to conserve propane by using the gen during the day utilizing the electric heater and only use the furnace at night on low. I I have to have the gen on anyway so that I can charge the battery and make the lap top screen brighter so I still like the furnace in the morning as well.

[digimark]

I'd be curious to learn which would cost more: to run the generator at a higher load powering the electric heater during the day, or higher propane cost to run the furnace as your day heat source. Also which method would be more convenient to deal with every day/week through the winter. Using the furnace 24x7 and refilling the propane more often would seem more convenient, as you wouldn't have to deal with another heater and refilling the generator tank as often. You might also be able to trust the furnace while you are away at work or running errands more reliably then the generator/electric heater combo.

If you don't mind my nosy asking, I'm also curious how you are handling Internet access, especially as you need to move around a bit. -Gary

[southpennrailroad]

I'd be curious to learn which would cost more: to run the generator at a higher load powering the electric heater during the day, or higher propane cost to run the furnace as your day heat source. Also which method would be more convenient to deal with every day/week through the winter. Using the furnace 24x7 and refilling the propane more often would seem more convenient, as you wouldn't have to deal with another heater and refilling the generator tank as often. You might also be able to trust the furnace while you are away at work or running errands more reliably then the generator/electric heater combo.

If you don't mind my nosy asking, I'm also curious how you are handling Internet access, especially as you need to move around a bit. -Gary

Shutting down the heat when running errands is what I had in mind. The trailer so far will drop 10 degrees in one hour. So if I had say the temp up to 70 and left for two hours it would not be bad. As for work I have left the gen running INSIDE the trailer while gone and then of course coming back and shutting off the gen and removing it to the outside B$ getting in worked as well.

The gen running on fuel save mode has run for 24 hrs. So $3.00 for a day is not bad. But the electric heater on high is 1/2 that. Either way I will be alright.

A 1.3 mile long tunnel I often have walked is dark until I get half way through. Can't go back but the other side is at least seen.

[mikeschn]

Insulation will make a world of difference in how long your propane lasts.

Maybe you can start slipping in a sheet or two of insulation in the easy to do spots...

Mike...

[southpennrailroad]

Insulation will make a world of difference in how long your propane lasts.

Maybe you can start slipping in a sheet or two of insulation in the easy to do spots...

Mike...

On And On

I was going to keep installing these lol's but you would be mad at me for using up all your space. I need to photograph this trailer for you.

[mskobier]

Russ,
I got to thinking about your heating and insulation challenges. Just so you know, getting me thinking about something can be quite dangerous!

I fully understand that you can not do anything about your walls at this time. But what about your ceiling? It is a well known fact that a structure looses a significant amount of heat through the ceiling, and since your ceiling is currently un-insualted, that is where you are loosing a lot of your heat. I do understand that you are loosing a bit of heat through the walls too, but at least they have a sheet of plywood to slow down the heat loss. So the major problem is your roof.

I got to thinking about what could be used as an inexpensive (possibly free) material that would be easy to work with and provide at least some R value. Then I got to thinking about swimming pools. I know the two don't seem to have much in common, but in reality they do. I live in a cold climate, and some friends have an above ground swimming pool. One of the things they do once they set it up for the season is install what they call a solar blanket. This solar blanket is really just a sheet of UV stablized bubble wrap. My friend swear that the solar blanket really holds in the heat.

So with all of that said, could regular bubble wrap be used for insulation? A quick web search yielded an answer that supprised me. Yes it is actually pretty good insulation! I have included a link to a web page I found that describes bubble wrap being used to insulate windows.

[url]
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Co ... lewrap.htm
[/url]
The web page even goes so far as to give it an R value of R2 for a single layer.

Lets see, a material that is easy to work with, is inexpensive and provides a reasonable R value. Looks like bubble wrap just might be something that could work.

I know it is not as good as EPS or one of the other established insulations, but what would could it hurt?

Anyway, this might be something that could help with some of your heating challenges.

[mikeschn]

That bubble wrap is a good idea. I use a solar pool cover on my pool and it does a good job keeping the heat in.

Mike...

[southpennrailroad]

Well I didn't use the furnace yesterday or last night but twice. Temps were in the 50's. Tonight it's suppose to go down again. At least during the days it will be back up into the 30's. I will keep the furnace off again. I still rely on the mattress pad heaters for night time warmth.

[Miriam C.]

Problem with metal is that it conducts cold in. If you could get a dead air space (preferably not the whole trailer) and some bubble wrap it might work as well as the silver covered bubble stuff. The trick is to not get too air tight.

[southpennrailroad]

Problem with metal is that it conducts cold in. If you could get a dead air space (preferably not the whole trailer) and some bubble wrap it might work as well as the silver covered bubble stuff. The trick is to not get too air tight.

Well aware of that Miriam! Thanks

However. I was at Lowe's today to price insulation. I want the stuff that will fill the whole gap and that is 1 inch between the luan and outside skin. I Put my hands on both sides and could feel the heat on the Styrofoam panels. First thing I thought is that with just that little bit of hand heat would reflect back then it should do wonders reflecting back the cold outside and reflecting back the heat inside. Also thought about those seat cushions how they depend on body heat to work and give off good heat back. Each 4x8 is about $20.00.. I suspect that I will be tightly fitting that between the studs. fan board over the studs to keep them from convection between the outside skin to inside wood. I am going to do the ceiling first. That is open to me. I am not going to fan board that as they are not touching the sin/roof as a luan is between that space.

[mskobier]

Russ,
You may want to look around a bit before you purchase your insulation. If you are going with the white board as I did, you can find significant differences in prices. I ended up getting my foam board at Home Depot, because they were around $8-9 dollars cheaper per sheet than Lowes. This is for the same brand of 1" white foam board. If I remember correctly, it was $10.99 sheet at HD, and $19.99 at L's. This was just a couple of months ago. One store had blue foam, but in too thick of size, the other had the pink. The pink was almost twice as much as the white. Also, if your trailer is anything like mine, the depth of the roof ribs is actually 1-1/2". So you would need a couple of sheets of 1/2" to fill the void. Since the White foam is about R4-R4.5, that would add another R2 value for a total of approx R6. The blue and Pink is about
R5-R6 per inch.

When you go to install the foam between the ribs, cut it a little wider than the measured distance between the ribs. The foam will compress a little when you push it in, and the extra friction will hold it in place without needing any glue. It will be a tight fit, but it will go in. That also helps minimize any gaps between the ribs and the ends of the foam. If you do have the 1.5" thick ribs, you may want to install the 1/2" piece first, then follow with the 1". That will keep the 1/2" in place.

In the top corners, I have test fit some 1/2". The 1/2" is flexible enough to conform to the curvature of the top corner. I measured from the inside top of the wall to the piece of plywood running between the ribs. Again, make it a little long, and it will stay in place.

Again, look around at different suppliers for insulation. I was really supprised when I found the price difference that I did.

Mitch

[southpennrailroad]

I live close to Lowe's and was running around and only stopped there because I was close by but my son gave me a HD gift card so I will check there next. They are on the other side of my area so I didn't check them out as of yet.

Thanks

[southpennrailroad]

Well went to HD and checked their foam boards. Little cheaper. I measured my void in the wall and it measures out to 1.25 so it has to be the 1 " board with a space in the area between the luan and Styrofoam.

Maybe putting fan board as a filler. Make that tight instead of a gap.

What about the bubble rap in that gap?

What does everyone think ?

[mskobier]

Russ,
Good to see you are trying to get something in the roof.

How much cheaper was HD vs L's?

If I were left with the option of leaving a void space or filling it with something, I believe I would go with the either a thin sheet of some sort of foam, or the foil covered bubble wrap. If I used the foil covered bubble wrap, I would put it against the metal roof/luan. Its not going to give you a lot of insulation value for cold weather, but I think the radiant barrier would help quite a bit in the summer. It would also be easier to install that way, since the foam board would hold it in place. Most anything that can fill the void to stop air movement is better than the void space itself. Even the regular bubblewrap would be better than nothing.

You may also want to consider over filling the space between the roof ribs. Say a piece of 1/2" or even another layer of 1". And if you can overlap the roof ribs, that will help cover the void space inside the roof ribs, since there is no insulation in that area.

I am not sure what "fan board" is. can you enlighten me?

For the front section under the formed plastic section(?) I would use regular fiberglass insulation in bread bags or plastic grocery bags. The insulation is stuffed in the bags and the bags closed to make fiberglass pillows. Stuff these in the space to finish the ceiling insulation. The plastic bags will help protect the insulation from water (humidity), and keep the fiberglass insulation fibers from being a problem in the trailer. These bags would also be easy to remove if you needed to replace any of the front lighting. You could also stuff a bunch of the bubble plastic in rolls in that area too, but the pillows would fit better.

Mitch

[WarPony]

What about the bubble rap in that gap?

What does everyone think ?

What ever is cheaper OR easier to work with will be fine, it'll be better than nothing.

Jeff