AGM vs Lithium

[Westley]

But hey great for noobs don't want to learn the details..

John:

What lithium battery and charger are you running and how's it working in the real world?



Tony

That brings me back to where I was already. Darn right, I'm a noob, and I'm not ashamed about it.

Details??? Yea, lots of details, and lots of misinformation on the net, which leads to lots of potential for mistake and a waste of money and time.

It seems too complicated for me to know for sure. So, that's why I have settled on the Jackery or the Goal Zero, and adjust my amp needs accordingly. With those two choices, the chance of failure is reduced, and I can enjoy the experience of traveling/camping rather than making corrections.

Tally the needs:

Lights
Frig
Fans

Lights can be provided by using the rechargeable type. Even the Makita LED lights that use their 18V rechargeable lithium batteries would work and could even be used exclusively. I will use them as backup. These Makita batteries used for their tools are not inexpensive, but I own them anyway, for the tools. Also, these batteries by Makita can be used as a power bank for recharging cell phones and other devices. Makita makes an adaptor and it's not expensive. I have a recharging device that charges two batteries at once. Using a rather inexpensive inverter, the batteries can be charged by plugging into the 12V cig lighter on the truck while running and let the alternator do the work. Or, having several Makita 18V batteries on hand, recharge them all when AC shore power is available.

Also, I keep these handy: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007M ... UTF8&psc=1

And one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Maglite-ML300LX- ... 21&sr=8-32

And these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AW ... UTF8&psc=1

12V Frig can be run off either the Jackery or Goal Zero

Ditto for 12V fans

The Frig and fans, like the Maxxair, will be the biggest draw of power. Unless boondocking for several days, the Jackery or Goal Zero suffice between recharge, and with solar or gas inverter/generator - problem solved.

No additional or separate charger/converter needed.

Warranty and customer service on call.

[bdosborn]

Cosmo on this forum just did a review of the Jackery 1000. He gushes a bit about it (probably because Jackery gave him one ) but he gets the details right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5zGWXwC9D8&t=1191s

Bruce

[Cosmo]

Baw haw haw Thanks
I am in social distance lock down here in New Jersey. But enjoying good health so far! No camping possible right now. I hope I am not taking up too much bandwidth on this forum.

It’s a good morning when I smell waffles and coffee. The most dangerous place in camp is between me and a fresh waffle.

No build out – and all the power I want. It’s a good concept for me. Unfortunately it’s not free at a dollar a watt. But its convenient light weight and its portable (if you need that) Your needs may vary.

When I added the fridge I had to build out infrastructure (add a solar controller and a larger battery). I went from a 55ah to a 120ah AGM battery. I don’t want to go thru that again. I could see my power requirements would change again in the future. Trying to size the infrastructure for the future could be another miss. I am already right sized for the core trailer systems. CPAP users might understand this scenario.

I camp in cold so a lithium trailer battery was out of scope. But a combination approach was perfect for me. Portable was icing on the cake.

Enter battery in a box. I purchased a 500 watt unit and I was able to charge my laptop 7 times! Perfect. Then I wanted power when that was recharging so I purchased a 200 watt unit. These are incremental additions with no infrastructure buildout needed. Plus they are portable and can be used in many ways. At a dollar a watt you need to crunch some numbers and see if it’s a good solution for you. Cheaper, lighter convenient (you can only pick 2).

I think it’s an alternative to infrastructure build out. For the do it yourself builder I (and others) posted info about how to build a unit. Its not hard and its cost effective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVRgS9_rcjk&t=253s

=Cosmo

[tony.latham]

I camp in cold so a lithium trailer battery was out of scope.

That 32º no-charging issue certainly is a deal-breaker for us. I'm still holding out for an el-cheapo flux-capacitor on Banggood.

Tony

[John61CT]

You can charge at 32° just very slowly.

And that is the internal temp, if you keep them in the living space with you should often stay higher than that.

Also it isn't difficult to make a box with foam, or use a cooler, and custom silicon heating pads with thermostat are like $40.

Many ways to skin that cat. . .

[Cosmo]

My approach is similar.
AGM for trailer battery. Its reliable and good in cold. Keep in mind AGM takes longer to charge in cold and looses capacity in cold. Could be as low as 50% less capacity in cold or more. But it works.
I take the battery box in the heated trailer where I can snuggle up to it and keep it warm.
The maker said you can drain the battery down to +14F. Charging in cold will damage the battery permanently.

I like the combo approach for my needs. Definitely not a good fit for everyone.

=Cosmo

[John61CT]

By "battery box" there do you mean the lithium?

I have several portable powerpaks based on AGM

[Cosmo]

Thanks John,
Yes Lithium. I had been using a 35 pound AGM for portable power.
The lugable AGM was 35 ah and provided 210 watts of usable power.
The new 240 watt lithium box provides about 200 usable watts and weighs 6.6 pounds.

=Cosmo

[bdosborn]

Lead acid batteries loose capacity and the voltage drops when they get cold. The voltage also drops when you put a load on them. The voltage on my golf cart batteries would get so low in cold weather, and when 75% charged, that my diesel heater would lock out on low voltage without starting. When I say cold, say about 45F. Granted, they were cheap batteries but its the main reason I switched to LiFePO4 - very little voltage drop in cold weather or from loads. I have mine inside the trailer so I just need to run the heater if I need to charge them. My Victron MPPT controller won't charge if the batteries are below 32F. I do need to be careful and check the temp if I plug the trailer into shore power.

Bruce,

[John61CT]

The new 240 watt lithium box provides about 200 usable watts and weighs 6.6 pounds.

Do you mean Wh maybe?

200W is an instantaneous unit of power, and pretty low.

If you mean stored energy capacity or usage over time, Ah is a better unit and @12V the normal convention.

[Cosmo]

Yes Watt hours I am getting sloppy. 200 watts HOURS is not much I agree.

I was planning on camping this week but the governor closed the state campgrounds in my state - surrounding states did the same.
Now they are back open.
I am not complaining. I appreciate their leadership at this time.


=Cosmo

[bdosborn]

Here's a nice summary of AGM vs Lithium:

https://www.nocheski.com/2019/02/26/lithium-ion-vs-agm-battery/

Here's a video from Jeff Cote with Pacific Yacht Systems, he seems to have the most practical experience with batteries of the YouTubers I've watched. He has a ton of videos, I've watched a lot of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EmaThXnYQI

Bruce