Teardrop - Form versus Function

[Strop]

Hi all,

This is a real hard topic and a personal one also in a lot of respects, based on what you do and how you do it. The "thing" that brought me to looking at Teardrops was the ability to be able to stop and not be required to set anything up and just jump into bed, especially if it was raining. I did not want a big 4WD to tow a caravan around with. I do not want to go off road into 4WD territory but I do like quiet places.

I can see some of the limitations with a teardrop choice:

kitchen access in bad weather
Dressing / undressing room
Seating
Storage
Limited space for tall people (I am 6' 2" +)
Claustrophobic
Toilets

But, I do love the teardrop concept and do like some teardrop shapes more than others. I keep going back to the profiles linked n the design resources menu. http://www.angib.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/teardrop/tear03.htm. I started off loving the Kenskill, (first picture I saw) then the Cub and now the Grumman 2. But ths choice is on looks and can change based on the wind.

Just like I think a Ferrari looks better than a family sedan. Obviously the family sedan has things going for it as well. Hence the form versus function question. These are the sort of things that could and are discussed over a campfire. I am also assuming that as the night gets older the honesty of comparisons might also get a bit more direct. Being from a long way away I do not have the opportunity of being able to see these creations close up and discuss issues with the owners.

I could only find one older thread similar to this and not wanting to steal someone's thread so I have posted this.

What makes one shape better than the others in form and to me more importantly FUNCTION. I am after a degree of honesty here to help me and hopefully others, in the design phase so even a private message would be valuable, pictures with comments even better. I only want to have to make one, so being aware of the shortcomings of each profile, as well as it's advantages would be useful. I realise cupboard designs is personal but what about hitting your shins on the trailer whilst cooking , tall people fitting under galley lid, clothes storage, getting dressed or door shapes allowing access or ......

Any assistance here much appreciated.


All the best

Laurie

[Roo Dog]

Strop,

Depends a lot on your planned use.
We did a lot of caravanning, long trips time and distance wise so our requirements were very different to the short hops we now do with the Tear.
Our patch is now the Southern corner of Western Australia. We live in Esperance. We camp in the bush to the North a bit.
Ours has no cupboards, it has some small shelves and our clothes etc are carried in bags hung on hooks. Makes for a very open interior and no claustrophobia.
We use an 8X5 Bunnings $15 silver tarp as our awning, for sun mostly.
2 to three nights is about our limit. If the weather looks like crap we just don't go. Ours sits in the carport ready to go. Our whole approach since the caravan is to make it as simple as possible.
There is a fair amount of Tear activity in NSW and SE Queensland and they do have meets, you should have no trouble having a live view of a few. There is a lot of info on the Aussie Yahoo Teardrop site. I was having a browse at some builds last night.
Take it easy.

RD

[Shadow Catcher]

Lets take each point
kitchen access in bad weather, We have a 14' tarp that provides very good shelter
Dressing / undressing room, Ours is large enough that this works very well inside
Seating, Don't spend much time inside and bed with headboard is quite comfortable couple of chairs outside
Storage, lots of cabinets, we do not need bins
Limited space for tall people (I am 6' 2" +), I am 6' 3" and a queen size bed and a bit of room at the foot of the bed...
Claustrophobic, Grass hopper design large inside and four fairly large windows (Nancy is a bit claustrophobic and has no problem)
Toilets, you forgot shower, A potty/shower tent and portapotie 6gall gas electric hot water heater.

[Strop]

I had better add some of my thoughts to this rather than just wait for others to start it off. I have to say that I like the teardrop shape. The first trailer that caught my eye (before knowing about teardrops) was a T-Van (http://tracktrailer.com.au/tvan/). They are very rugged with built in tent etc and not very light. It was the potential aerodynamics of the tears that I thought was their biggest positive their light weight was next.

Shadow Catcher, I can see your build is taller than what I have been looking at and the extra windows would certainly give it a far more airy feel. I will have to look up the grasshopper design to do some more reading.

The three designs I have been mainly focusing on are the Kenskill, Grumman 2 & Cub. Just looking at the profiles I have made a few assumptions (be they true or false). First the Kenskill has less curve to the shape. This would give it more volume for the sleeping area as opposed to the other two. This same shape would result in less storage space in the front as it appears to not extend as far forward as the other two. Finally with the Kenskill the more upright nature of the back would mean that cupboards would be closer to the rear so their is less reach for the top cupboards. It might also mean that there is less height provided by the tailgate and also less weather protection. The Kenskill also has a flatter roof so the fitting of a skylight, vent on the flat surface would be easier. Also you might be able to mount a single solar panel there without disturbing the look too much or even incorporate it into the build.

I can not see a lot of difference between the shape of the Grumman 2 and the Cub. I may be told they are basically the same . I have not done an overlay of them to scale to see any real differences. Both appear to be the most aerodynamic of the shapes I have looked at. I would be thinking this leads to better fuel economy during towing. Also I am trying to imagine the roof height of my car and where it is in relation to the teardrop behind it. I have previously towed a box trailer with a frame covered in canvas to tow around our camping gear and I could feel the impact it had on the car. I could also see it with the fuel bill. Hence the cub and the Grumman 2. I don't think the Kenskill would rate as highly here.

I initially did not look at the Benroy profile due to the flatter front end and my previous experience with trailer drag. Having seen how Dave McCam with his Atma Travelear has put a aerodynamic front box onto his design has me thinking again about the design.

Going back to the kitchen area on both the Grumman 2 and Cub it looks like it is a good reach to the back or top top cupboards. Easy for me but my wife is only 5' 2 1/2" tall so it might be a reach for her.

Next, just by looking at the profiles of the 3 designs mentioned the Cub appears to hardest to build due to the curves, the Grumman 2 next and the Kinskill easiest. The Benroy perhaps even easier.

RD, I totally understand what you mean by planned use. We are also looking at mainly 2-3 days max unless we are with a group of people and that would only be the odd week here and there. That obviously impacts upon the kitchen design but it is my intention to have a kitchen of some sort. Clothing storage / storage is important as the car will be carrying my golf clubs taking up a lot of space.

Whilst we occasionally have very small falls of snow here it is not uncommon to have -10 Deg C of a morning with it warming up dramatically during the day. Excess heat is more likely to be the issue so insulation to keep cool is probably more important. So issues about this and the impact the different shapes have is interesting me for planning purposes.

A teardrop is obviously an exercise in compromise. Choosing the right compromises is the trick. Anyway. Sunday morning cup of tea - off the read some threads.

Laurie

[Roo Dog]

Strop,

We built our Tear on spec hoping it would work for us. For this reason we hung onto the caravan for some time just in case the Tear concept flopped. It did take us a while to reduce from the van to a Teardrop, carted far too much gear in the Tear to begin with but I reckon we have got the balance right now, for us any way.
You will never get it right first up, things you thought you would need, how you utilise your tear are all based on experience with the wee beastie.
Take you time, slide into it slowly and be ready and willing to change what appeared to be a good idea at the beginning of the project.
And remember, we are all different. Tears are an expression of the individual to some degree and I think that is a big part of owning a Tear.

Take it easy.

RD

[PKCSPT]

I like the shape of mine bt it is limited in space and storage. Since my use is mostly overnight here and there I don;t really need much. If I am out for a few days with my kids let them do the cooking
I was looking for teh easiest camper my little beetle could tow. At 5'3 I easily fit quite comfy once I am settled in.
My galley is a shelf to store my bread and peanut butter.

If I could have one a little bigger it would be a small standy. Be nice to stand up to get dressed.

[PaulC]

Laurie, I'm 6'4" and I don't have an issue in an 8x5 teardrop. You just make sure you have enough length inside, after all it's your build. Also, a Coleman event fourteen covers us if the weather gets a it wet.
Cheers
Paul

[Strop]

Hi Paul,

I have seen the Event 14 used and thought about it would be very good. I am figuring out things as I go when I look at the various plans. Moving the hatch hinge further to the rear moves the dividing wall and reduces the size of the kitchen and lets me increase the length of the sleeping area. Now just to see how that impacts upon the hatch height and being able to work under it. I most definitely need to figure out how to use sketch up.

Did you build your unit Paul? Being in SA I am assuming you do some hot weather camping so was wondering how it handles the heat? Do you have an insulated floor etc?

Laurie

[PaulC]

Hi Paul,

I have seen the Event 14 used and thought about it would be very good. I am figuring out things as I go when I look at the various plans. Moving the hatch hinge further to the rear moves the dividing wall and reduces the size of the kitchen and lets me increase the length of the sleeping area. Now just to see how that impacts upon the hatch height and being able to work under it. I most definitely need to figure out how to use sketch up.

Did you build your unit Paul? Being in SA I am assuming you do some hot weather camping so was wondering how it handles the heat? Do you have an insulated floor etc?

Laurie

I've built five in total now with another one on the go in the shed. The first one I built was done the American way with insulated walls, floor and roof. Since then I've realized that it doesn't snow much down this way and 15mm ply has an R factor of about seven. No need to insulate Mate. I only use 12mm for the floor.
Cheers
Paul

[nevadatear]

All the the things you mention are why everyone does not own a teardrop. There are trade offs. It is how you want to camp. We want to be outside. I love to cook outside. A teardrop by its very nature, is more social and one with nature we just had a potluck at a birding festival last night. Several big rigs, but the potluck was at out place with the outdoor kitchen. Even though it was windy and chilly, the tear was more appealing. We put up the easy up over the hatch and a tarp on one side, propane firepit and a cozy area we had our tear is a compromise of cuteness and size. At 5 x 10 and a queen mattress, it is plenty of sleeping room. We also have plenty of clothing storage for a 10 day trip. All my food and kitchen stuff kits in my kitchen. If it doesn't,t fit, we don't need it. Changing space I have a pop up room i use for showers and portapotty when i feel the need. I dont often. As spacious as ours is, changing clothes is not a problem. We can sit upright claustrophobia is not an issue. My husband is slightly claustrophobic and has never felt that way in ours. But we have @ 3 ft from the head cabinets to the foot ones. Potty is also not an issiue. Ok, maybe it is right now as i lay here avoiding the morning trek to the far away campground potty. But that is the trade off and in the middle of the night, that is what "go girl" is for. What is comes down to is what how do you camp? If inside potty, standing room, inside seating is important, then a tear is not for you. If your vision of camping is more the "hardsided tent". Pick up and go connivence

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coupled with a comfortable bed not on the ground, and staying warm at night, then a tear may be perfect

[nevadatear]

So to touch on the shape, ours is kenskill inspired. The hatch goes to the bottom, in level ground even tall people can wk under it. I do not have to lean in ti cook do to the recuurve back in. Cabinets come within 6" of the end of the tear. I have sliding doors so i do not have to move anything to open them. I also love tambour doors. I have no sink for no plumbing. But i do have a water bottle on slides. I didn't want reach in cabinets like camp inn. Ours will certainly disagree. My kitchen is perfect. For me.

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The front of our shape is a little bumped out at the top, giving it our signature whale theme. This shape gave us generous room at the head for dirty clothes drop downs and behind head cabinets large enough for all tolietries plus books

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and towels
This shape and size was a trade off we made, and it lost some cute factor for function in our book. But those were the areas we compromised firm for function. But we are still a tear. It is still a very small camper in the scheme of things. And its a woody! The design feature most important to us.

[nevadatear]

Kenskill over cub = full hatch versus 1/2 hatch and reach in cabinets for us.

[DMcCam]

Our design is very much the same idea as Debbie's Monstro so she covered all the bases pretty darn well (thanks Debbie). The aerodynamics of my design gave me exceptional gas mileage and stability. Towing with a Honda Element we got about 25 mpg on the return trip from the Dam Gathering. Our interior space is more than adequate, very spacious and warm. At 6'2" I can sit up against the forward cabinets and my aft cabinets are still 16" or so away from my feet. We can turn around inside sitting comfortably face to face with room between to play cards. Our galley hatch is pretty high (about a foot over my head) and quite heavy. My wife grabs the side of it to lower it down as she can't reach the top.

All the Best,

Dave

[Strop]

Hi Debbie, Slowcowboy & Dave

Thank you for your feedback. I have to say that in our camping experience the focus when with others is away from the tent and around the fire or communal kitchen area. When by ourselves it is again around the fire. Debbie - I had to google "propane firepit", never seen or heard of one but they do look good. Especially for those fire restriction days.

When I look at a lot of photos of tears I see the outside covered area being used a lot. That does lessen the need for standing room that I have questioned about. The thought of towing a large van around behind me is not an attractive one. I could see myself doing it if I was away for months at a time but as you say the ability to just hook up a tear and out the door with your normal car makes it very enticing.

I have to say I love the hatch that goes all the way down and that is on my must have list. Sliding kitchen doors is also now on the list - so sensible.

I think I am convinced but the midnight or early morning run for the wife is always a factor.

There is definitely a lot you can do but as you all say choices and compromises. At least if you pull up at a camp site and it is raining you can just jump into the tear and be comfortable till it stops. Thank you for the feedback on the room and sitting up etc all good.

Debbie, I noticed in your thread you had placed a moveable table to place the gas cooker on and also another stand of some sort on the other side. Is it better to have the messy cooking outside the kitchen area? Can't ask any questions on the other as not sure what it is. What brought these changes about?

Thats the other thing I have noticed in all the pictures - I have never seen a photo of a tear that is not setup. You know, when you open the hatch there is all the stuff you store to be unpacked when you get to your destination. The mats, chairs, lights, cords etc that you use at your campsite. In your case the propane firepit - where does it fit in, or is it in the car. When I go camping just pulling my 6x4 trailer, I have everything to do with the camp in the trailer - nothing in the car. My concept with the tear is the same. If I came home Friday afternoon and suddenly wanted to go - all I would have to do is throw some food into the esky (cold box) and fill the water container up and drive out to where-ever.

I do have one rather old idea for you Debbie and any others here - I am an avid reader when I go camping. Love my Kindle and iPad. The kindle is a true mobile library in no space at all and lasts for days and days.

Paul, I was thinking very seriously for a while about not insulating the walls after your earlier comment and then I read a thread on the Australian Yahoo Teardrop forum last night about a bloke camping in a tear and having to put his food into the esky to stop it from freezing. He also described sleeping in a sleeping bag within a sleeping bag. Tear was not insulated. What I found interesting was the location - just up the road from where I live. Found it quite funny as we have been to some family functions in the area and can always remember picking up the garden hose and having it snap in two due to the frozen water in it. Only 2 hours down the hill to the sunny north coast of NSW but two totally different environments weather wise. Decision made on insulation. I think I can get away without floor insulation with the foam mattress doing most of that work.

All the best

Laurie

[nevadatear]

Laurie, lets see if I can remember all the questions. For traveling, we do keep most things in the tear, the dutch oven, the mats, the side tables, chairs, etc. but the TV is pretty full too, depending on the location and purpose. Some times the folding bikes go, other times not. Also, potentially dirty or wet stuff is in the TV , like charcoal, the hot water heater tank, both ice chests, the portable table. We don't want to put everything in the tear, then you spend a lot of time unloading, and lose the ability to open the doors and jump in if it is raining when you arrive at the campsite. We just unloaded them both! We may be going out next weekend, i'll snap a couple of pics loaded!

As for the tables, the attached side table placement was set there for three reasons 1'.in most campgrounds the passenger side is usually facing out, as in more movement on that side. I didn't want people constantly walking around the hot stove. 2. I wanted it outside the galley proper to not grease up the cabinets with grease, oil and spray from cooking. And 3. We wanted to be able to easily close the hatch at night or when we leave the campsite without having to move the stove or otherwise breakcamp kitchen. As for the other side table, it holds one ice chest up off the ground and at a better height.

You are dead right about kindles. My husband and i both have them, and they are what we use to read at camp. The books i keep in the cabinet are Keister's treasrop book, our build book, a camping journal and one emergency printed book in case my kindle fails!