Insulated Floor

[Festus]

Slow Cowboy's topic of "How do folks keep warm in a teardrop at nights" got me thinking of insulated floors. I did not insulate my floor on my build. My concern was that I would somehow get moisture trapped between the insulation and plywood causing the floor to rot. That and combined with Missouri's usually tolerable winters, I just didn't see the need because I don't plan on camping in sub-zero temps anyway. I could see insulating a floor where Slow lives. How many of you that lives in a moderately temperate climate insulated your floor? Do you have any regrets in how you chose to do it or would you do it on your next build?

[GuitarPhotog]

My 5" thick foam mattress provides plenty of insulation for the floor of my tear. There is no part of the floor that isn't covered with mattress.

<Chas>

[planovet]

I live in Texas where winters are not that bad. That being said, we have camped when the outside temps have been near freezing.

My floor is basically a box so I threw some insulation in just because I could. I used 2 layers of the pink foam sheets. Since it is in a box, I don't have to worry about trapped water.

While the bed is 8" of foam mattress and topper, I did not want to be sleeping on my insulation.

[Corwin C]

Condensation will occur on the coolest surfaces in your cabin. It is a fact of life and occurs in virtually all environmental conditions to some degree. If it happens on the windows or the glass of ice water that you placed by your bed, it's easy to see and remove (or if it's on a "safe" surface let it evaporate away on its own.) If it occurs where it's hidden (inside a cabinet, under a mattress, within a wall, etc.) and the moisture becomes trapped, it may go unnoticed until damage occurs. There are a few ways to combat this ... among them, minimize condensation from occurring in the first place by using ventilation (works well here in the desert southwest), insulating or even heating to ensure susceptible surfaces are not the coolest in the cabin, and/or allowing or forcing condensation to occur where it will do no harm (in the drip tray of an A/C or dehumidifier, cool waterproof surfaces (windows), and so on.)

Another thing to realize ... it's a floor, gravity will move any droplets in the cabin in that direction, so insulating the floor will not guarantee that it will not collect moisture. If you are meticulous about keeping everything dry you should have no issue, but if the bottom surface of the mattress becomes damp and the situation goes unnoticed or uncorrected (insulated or not) you are in for problems.

I will be insulating my floor, but not in the conventional way. I plan on attaching a well sealed 3/4" ply floor directly to the frame and then insulating between the frame members with foam. I fail to see the need for a floor structure upon a frame structure. The fact that the mattress is providing insulation is valid, however, you may be allowing a cool surface to exist within the envelope of the cabin and the possibility of condensation forming on the floor increases.

[les45]

I will be insulating my floor, but not in the conventional way. I plan on attaching a well sealed 3/4" ply floor directly to the frame and then insulating between the frame members with foam. I fail to see the need for a floor structure upon a frame structure. The fact that the mattress is providing insulation is valid, however, you may be allowing a cool surface to exist within the envelope of the cabin and the possibility of condensation forming on the floor increases.

I'm glad to hear that someone else thinks like I do about attaching the floor deck directly to the frame. Originally, I wasn't going to insulate the floor, but I had a unique situation where I just ended up with extra insulation (long story). I decided to fill in the gap between my 2X4 sidewall framing members, primarily to have a smooth floor. The only difference was that I covered the insulation with 1/8" luan and painted it just to make it even more moisture proof. I didn't do it for condensation or coldness purposes as I am a fair weather camper here in South Carolina.

[Festus]

My floor is 5/8" plywood over 2x2's. I glued then caulked all joints then gave the underside 3 coats of white elastormeric roof coating and bolted it to the frame. Then I glued sheet vinyl flooring over the plywood floor and built the walls and everything else on top of that. I finished it in 2009 and have had no problems so far. Corwin, I understand what you're saying about the condensation. I have camped in cool weather and woke up with frost outside. There were water droplets all around the aluminum trim around the doors & windows.

One other thing I did on my doors was to use the real aluminum tape to seal the wood before I screwed the door trim and windows on. The tape I used wasn't regular duct tape, but was made of kind of a heavy aluminum foil with an adhesive back. I covered the the edges of the door and where the cut out for the window was. My thought was if I did get condensation from the aluminum door trim or aluminum window the tape would (I hope) keep it from soaking into the wood framing.

I have a 4" memory foam mattress that I figured would help insulate me from the floor if it is cold. I found out I hated the memory foam because it didn't give me enough support, so I threw a futon mattress on top of it. More insulation! I have been boondocking when it dropped into the 20's with no heat and have been comfortable. I would like to replace both with a regular foam mattress at some point, but it's just not in the budget at the moment. I haven't noticed any moisture under the foam mattress, but I store the teardrop under a lean-to shed and leave the windows and roof vent cracked for ventilation.

I have debated whether I should have insulated my floor, but so far I am happy and haven't seen the need here where I am. If or when I build another one, I doubt that I'll insulate the floor in it either.

[akjrusty]

Coming from a sailing background and tent camping with all the condensation inside the tent even with lots of ventilation, it is something I am concerned about once I get my teardrop and start using it. So I found this marine product that would be good to put under a mattress of any type:

http://www.hyperventmarine.com/store1.htm

[Festus]

I had not seen the Hypervent product before, akjrusty. That looks like the ticket to keep mold from forming under the mattress. It's kind of pricy, but I guess it's cheap if you consider the amount of work and $$ involved if you had to replace the floor.

[working on it]

I have a substitute for the Hypervent product, though not marketed as such: a fiber air filter

flanders fiber air filter.jpg (12.74 KiB) Viewed 781 times

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Flanders-PrecisionAire-24-in-x-36-in-x-1-in-Permaire-Pad-Air-Filter-40655-012436/100178722#.UhkHSFko61s that my wife bought at Home Depot. She bought three of them, though she hadn't checked what we needed first...so they weren't used, just sitting around. Then I was preparing my HHR for my winter's emergency "camping" set-up (when I get iced in at work, 60 miles from home). I sleep overnight in the HHR Panel, in the parking garage at work, with food/drink, radio/heater (powered either by 110vac external or 12vdc jumpstart battery), a 20 degree sleeping bag, 4 or 5 quilts, and a ground cover pad. The cold penetrating thru the floorboard would still be felt if the external temp was under 10 degrees, so I used the three air filters underneath the pad to give a thermal break. That worked pretty well...at 8 degrees I didn't feel the cold come thru (maybe a little). At $8 a pad, I might just double or triple the thickness this winter, just in case. I should think that it would work in the trailer, too, especially under a foam mattress. And no, I haven't considered using my trailer for a sleep-over if stranded at work (even though it would fit into the low-ceiling'd parking garage), because of the crowd it would attract (you wouldn't believe the crazies on the nightshift....).

[Shadow Catcher]

I will go with GP 5" foam mattress is quite enough.

[mike_c]

I insulated, but not for warmth so much as to prevent condensation under the wooden parts of the floor. Ventilation helps too. I agree that a foam mattress-- and a warm partner-- make insulation largely unnecessary for warmth unless it gets pretty cold, but water vapor from cabin occupants will condense on cold wood surfaces and soak the wood. Insulation keeps the underside of the floor from getting cold, and thus limits condensation.

[S. Heisley]

I insulated between the deck framework and then coated everything with a couple layers of undercarriage spray. The deck and framework had 3 or 4 coats of epoxy on it to begin with....don't think there will be a problem. Just got back from a camp trip today. 35 degrees, outside; about 60, inside. (Thanks, four-legged fur buddy!)