Propane vented radiant tube heater

[KennethW]

This is what I am going to try on my tear drop. It is a small version of the warehouse heaters. It uses a propane torch clamped to a conduit union with of piece of conduit going across the top inside of the teardrop with a florescent light reflector over it that will be painted silver.

I will use stainless steel dog dishes with a hole thru the bottom as wall thimble mounted to the wall

Anybody thoughts on this low cost vented redneck teardrop heater would be apprehended.

[Martiangod]

The concept looks great, those radiant shop heaters work awesome,
I don't see a reason it wont work, but with no safety devices????
Propane wont run to long on a full time burn, and I always find that the bottles and valve always freeze up if run to long, I've had them freeze to where for my safety I have thrown them as far as I can to get them away from me as they wouldn't shut down due to freeze up..
" IF " it works the way you think, and I think it may, as a next step to making it safer, I wonder if you could build a collector sort of box on the outside of the tear with say a buddy heater or black cat, to supply the heat to the radiant tube. as they will run 8 hours on a green bottle and have some safety built into them.
But great thinking

[KennethW]

thanks for replying
[[''I don't see a reason it wont work, but with no safety devices????]]

This is a VENTED heated. No gases (or water vapor)inside the tear to kill you. What safety devices do you thing is needed?
As far as the propane freezing. I have a hose for a 20# tank.

[[go buy one. not a safe device and no pilot light. these heators are all ready ready availbe with all the built in safty devices and stuff on the open market.
playing with homemade propane devices is not really a good idea due to the danger in propane gas if not used properly.]]

All the propane parts are factory parts. If I could find a low cost VENTED heater requiring on power, I would buy it.

[rowerwet]

my first thought also was, how long will that torch last? I am working on a kerosne lantern based heater, I know it will burn all night, by testing it while camping.
back in the 50's and 60's there were small propane fired floor furnaces, every now and then one pops up on fleabay, of course finding one that I would still trust today....
today they are still made as an excellent heat source for off the grid cabins and homes, but not small enough for the average camper. MY wife and I rented a house heated by one our first year and a half, in Maine, worked just fine.

for my money I would go with this http://www.nuwaystove.com/model2000.php installing it might be a challenge due to the set backs, but a little ingenuity can make anything work.

[rowerwet]

my other thought is, how much heat do you need? are you living in your TD in Alaska or the North Dakota oil towns? most people want heat to warm the tear up before bed, (I have a 12V heater to do that, others use a propane unvented heater) then once warmed up, body heat and possibly a small heat source are all that is needed until time to crawl out of bed. (time to start the 12v heater or little buddy heater again)
Others buy 12V bunk heaters, designed to keep truckers warm all night in their sleepers without running the engine all night. http://cozywinters.com/shop/ew-rvhmp.html
a torch puts out tons of heat, but unless you sleep naked in a sauna, it seems serious overkill...

[KennethW]

Thank again for you input. This is the way I see it. A NU-WAY Model 2000 - Propane Stove uses inside air for combustion( I would like to use outside air). The Nu-way sets on the floor and in a teardrop floor space is limit. The sides of the stove requires clearances and you could really easily get something to close. The radiant tube heater would be by the ceiling radiating the heat waves down to heat the stuff on the floor. Being on the ceiling make is unlikely to get things to close.
{{the North Dakota oil towns}} close central Minnesota I would like to be able to ice fish over night in 0 degree weather. Body heat is not enough But a propane torch can be set to a low flame if desired Or a high flame if it gets really cold and windy. Battery power goes way down in cooler temps So a electric heater is out and I will not run a unvented heater in a confined space. The headache would take all the fun out of camping(fishing). I have been if fish-houses with unvent heaters It is not fun getting the headache (I may be more sensitive to it!!)

[GerryS]

I thinks I'm with slo on this one. Sounds great, but unless you've got better safety in mind than just not having fumes...a

if this where used only while awake that's a different discussion. But heaters run while asleep....the distance between asleep and dead is a short one if there is a problem ...gas leak, fire....whatever. Although hypoxia might be a good way to go, I'm just not volunteering.

Every place we go has electricity....and when it's cold enough to need a heater they are usually empty. A small 400-1200 watt personal Hester works perfectly to keep our ship plenty warm. Usually too warm. My tiny generator that burns just gallon in 4-6 hours will run nicely for those very rare occasions when no civilization is present....

[Dale M.]

You are going to have a large "contraption" taking up space, and it will be getting hot, it will be spitting fumes and using up oxygen... I think its dangerous and unsafe, in small "living" space ... And you are so enamored with your handy work you are blind to the dangers it imposes.... I would rather see you abandon project than burn up TD or find your self poisoned by carbon monoxide gases.... Your argument that its vented does not wash, does not make it safer in my book......

Dale

[KennethW]

All combustion and gases goes thru the tube that goes from one side and out the other side of the camper. No gases or flames in the camper even the air for combustion is outside air. The contraption is just a torch thru a tube with thimbles thru the walls like you would use on any vented stove. A unvent buddy heater has the gases and water going in the camper is truly dangers. Plus a buddy heater uses inside air. The only way the gases on the radiate tube heater can get in the camper is if you open the window and the gas blows back in. Even if the radiant tube heater goes out or leaks the propane gas is outside the camper where the gas will move with the wind away from the camper. Do you have a heater in mine that requires no electricity and is fully vented(Both intake and exhaust). And wouldn't melt things that might get pushed by it. Under $300.

[rowerwet]

Thank again for you input. This is the way I see it. A NU-WAY Model 2000 - Propane Stove uses inside air for combustion( I would like to use outside air). The Nu-way sets on the floor and in a teardrop floor space is limit. The sides of the stove requires clearances and you could really easily get something to close. The radiant tube heater would be by the ceiling radiating the heat waves down to heat the stuff on the floor. Being on the ceiling make is unlikely to get things to close.
{{the North Dakota oil towns}} close central Minnesota I would like to be able to ice fish over night in 0 degree weather. Body heat is not enough But a propane torch can be set to a low flame if desired Or a high flame if it gets really cold and windy. Battery power goes way down in cooler temps So a electric heater is out and I will not run a unvented heater in a confined space. The headache would take all the fun out of camping(fishing). I have been if fish-houses with unvent heaters It is not fun getting the headache (I may be more sensitive to it!!)

Sorry, your intended use (overnight fishing) is different than most of us who are looking for a warm nights sleep. We pre-heat, snuggle up and go to sleep. In the morning reach up, start the heater re-heating the inside space up to a comfortable temp to crawl out of the sleeping bag/covers. If I lived in the truly frozen north like you my way to get heat would be the bunk heater, blow the exhaust air from the camper into the battery box and it won't be too cold. Also remember that a gas bottle needs the gas to be warm enough to evaporate inside or the bottle will freeze up. I remember using an electric heater to keep a 100 lb tank from freezing up, to keep a salamander heater running in a cold hangar. (based on the little soldering torch bottle, a larger one shouldn't have the same issues)
For getting in and warming up many times overnight while fishing, I see why you want a major heat source...
We kicked the idea of the Nuway or a wood stove around on a thread recently, at least one member has a box that replaces the door on one side, the stove sits in the box and gets the needed floor space, set backs and thimble mounting from the box dimensions. I figured the box could be hung on the door hinges, just make it reverse-able so the box would stick into the tear through the door opening for travel.
Hope your design works out well, we are all watching..

[KennethW]

I have all the parts ready. Just need a free time on a day above 20F to put it in.(it takes a lot of heat to heat a garage in -10F) It is always a little reservation in cutting hole in the walls. But I plan to also use the same holes for vent fans by removing the tube. So even if the heater does not work as planed I can hide my goof up
Thanks again for the input.
PS; FYI A battery with a low charge will freeze in the cold. So one has to be careful not to discharged a battery to far. A battery that has frozen is junk.

[KennethW]

The propane torch power head of the heater can be turned down to a flame a little more the a candle if needed.

It does not have to be a big flame. So the radiant heat can be set to the condition required. Not the same as commercial units that are all on or off. That is why I am going to use a standard propane torch.I think a propane torch is big enough but not to big.

[robfisher]

People don't seem to understand the inventors spirit. Don't listen to the nay-sayers. Educate yourself and try your ideas in as safe a manner as you can.

One thing to think about is the fact that propane is about 1.5 times heavier than air. If for some reason your torch blows out and the propane valve stays open will your tube vent out the unburned propane? If the tube happened to be filled and you tried to re-ignite, the results may be a bit surprising to say the least.

Be careful and have fun.

[eamarquardt]

I've always thought about "repurposing" an old water heater control system. It uses no electricity, has a thermostat in the temp range needed, and a thermocouple to turn off the gas if the pilot light goes out. Seems to me it has many of the features yer looking for. It should be easy to find one for free.

Here's a thread that discusses the low 02 sensor on a heater and how it works. http://www.iceshanty.com/ice_fishing/in ... c=168401.0

If you poke around there are commercial 02 alarms available. Not sure how much they cost but if you make the heater for cheap your $300 budget could go for safety equipment. http://www.pureairemonitoring.com/categ ... nitors-o2/

A common CO alarm would be cheap and not a bad idea.

Where there is a will, there is a way to do it and do it as safely as technology will permit. You just gotta be smarter than some inanimate objects.

Carry on.

Cheers,

Gus

[GerryS]

Rob, I understand the inventor spirit...more than you might think. But I also understand risk. I don't want some one experimenting when they are building a bridge it will have to drive over. Engineering principals and safety principals are just that....principals never change, and when you start to play, you can get burned. Carbon monoxide and fire aren't just minor inconveniences like a dripping waterline or a rattle under the dash. They are both things that can easily kill you. Heck, even Bob Henry has experienced problems in trailer that was a little too tight.

Build if you must. I have a clean conscience...