Quick introduction & Help with TD design!

[FIREBALL05]

Hello all -

My wife and I have been looking at teardrops for a few months now and are trying to nail down some design details. This will be an off-road TD build, and a few special requirements is that it will fit a roof top tent for the kids to sleep in, and the cabin will have some extra space for our 90# siberian husky to join us at night. We took a 17 day cross country trip from PA to CO, WY, UT and SD a few weeks ago and that has paved the way for us spending the majority of next summer on the road. So a super quick setup and tear down time is very important to us as we'd like to stay as mobile as possible.

That said, I've put together a very rough drawing in sketchup and would love to get some feedback from you folks who actually own and use and have experience with these! The tow vehicle is a 99 Land Cruiser that is outfitted with a drawer system, ARB fridge, inverter and 5 gal water jerry can. And a 6-person Coleman ground tent. Works great for longer stays, but with the kids and 4 peoples gear, pads, sleeping bags, etc. setup and tear down time is pretty lengthy. Plus it's a gigantic juggling act to get everything packed in the truck and the Yakima roof box. Every square inch of the truck was packed!

IMG_2681 by fireball05, on Flickr

The big design change is the roofline and rear hatch:
ben TD DF quarter 2 by fireball05, on Flickr

We did this for two reasons - one it gives extra space in both the cabin and galley, making full use of a 5x10 cabin. This allows for an extra area at the foot of the wife's side of the bed for the dog to sleep!
ben TD cabin view by fireball05, on Flickr

The second is that is provides some cover and weather protection fro the galley. We also want to be able to use a Foxwing awning, this will provide 270 degree coverage over one side of the TD and the galley, all in one slick setup. For those who might not be familiar, here's a video: [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C45a-xHzJG4[/youtube]

Here's one more picture of the proposed galley setup. We really like our 22" 2-burner partner steel stove and ARB63 qt fridge and would like to retain those and move them back to the TD.
ben TD PR quarter 2 by fireball05, on Flickr

So hopefully that shows the current basic idea. A few questions:
1. is the rear hatch possible to do/build as shown? It's a pretty tight curve. This is probably the biggest question as this will effect any design changes..
2. any thoughts on galley layout? Do we need the drop down side table and sink? We can get a 19 gal water tank built into the frame. The wife would like to have more water available, most of our camping is/will be primitive. We can add 2 more jerry cans pretty easily to the front of the trailer, but the built in tank, pump, sprayer and optional side sink sound like they'd be a good idea.
3. any thoughts on venting? a fantastic fan will only be able to open 3-4" before hitting the tent. Side vents? A few of these placed towards the front? http://www.etrailer.com/Enclosed-Trailer-Parts/Ventline/VP-543SP.html
4. what else aren't we thinking of? Sounds like lots of folks would like some sort of "basement" storage for dirty shoes or other stuff. This plan would have storage under the bed, not terribly easy to access though.

Thanks in advance for any help! Looking forward to joining the fold.

Ben/Fireball

[tony.latham]

That's a challenge with your pooch.... ours sleep in the back seat of our Tacoma when we're out.

"1. is the rear hatch possible to do/build as shown?"

It's a pretty tight curve. I'll let other's chime in here, but that rear radius is a problem. It's been discussed here and there on this forum.

2. "any thoughts on galley layout? Do we need the drop down side table and sink? We can get a 19 gal water tank built into the frame. The wife would like to have more water available, most of our camping is/will be primitive. We can add 2 more jerry cans pretty easily to the front of the trailer, but the built in tank, pump, sprayer and optional side sink sound like they'd be a good idea."

I think a sink is a waste of space –you can always bring a plastic type sink. Also there are plenty of good camp tables out there. I build my galley around the cooler and the 7 gallon Reliance water jug. They work well and you can slide the jug out to make the water easily available while cooking.




3. "any thoughts on venting? a fantastic fan will only be able to open 3-4" before hitting the tent. Side vents? A few of these placed towards the front? http://www.etrailer.com/Enclosed-Traile ... 543SP.html"

My first 'drop was a commercially built 4x10. I had it for nine years and loved it. It had a couple of computer fans in it and they just didn't do the job. I think some have made 'em work though. Dunno about the ones you found on eTrailer. Two people in a teardrop can produce a lot of heat and moisture. The teardrop I built that replaced it has a Fantastic Vent Fan and it makes a huge difference. I'd go so far as to raise your rack up a couple of inches to get one to function. They are a big deal.

4. "what else aren't we thinking of? Sounds like lots of folks would like some sort of "basement" storage for dirty shoes or other stuff. This plan would have storage under the bed, not terribly easy to access though."

My first 'drop had under-matress storage and It was just too hard to get to –it was seldom used. I put a storage area ahead of the pillow area with a shelf on it and slider access. Dirty shoes? They go in a plastic open topped box on the shelf above our feet.[/color]



Good luck with this!

Tony

p.s. I'm a big disciple of Steve Fredrick's Teardrop Shop Building Manual. http://www.campingclassics.com/shopman05.html It's about 250 pages and was a huge help.

[kayakdlk]

Your plan and ideas look good, but here are some more options to think about and why I choose them for my build

I made a large tongue box and pack a small tent etc. for the kids. I can bring a bigger tent if they want friends. I can leave it home if they do not go with us. I can set it up away from us so we do not have to listen to them all night (we get peace and quiet, not sure you would with them above you). I think is is much easier, cheaper and flexible than a tent on the roof. The Dog can sleep with the kids and then you can get more space for the galley which you will appreciate.

I stayed away from built in water tank. I think it is much easier to carry a few jugs and when winter comes no cleaning out or worry of frozen tank or lines, less maintenance, no needing to flush it because your tank got contaminated, and a portable 3-7 gallon tanks can easily be carried to spigot or hauled to in tow vehicle for refill.

If you still want the roof tent you could use some side vented computer fans

I skipped the under bed storage, sounds likes good idea but after talking to some that have it it is hard use. If you want there are a few builds with pull out drawers under the door/frame. Seems easier to use. Check this thread out http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?t=42046&p=782237 Go about 1/2 way down to see pictures

A Side table is highly desired. I have two removable ones. They can be setup on either side and attache to the back for lots of flexibility. They make more space to put stuff, cook and clean dishes etc. Especially if you are away from campground and don't have a picnic table. I went with a 1-2 gallon yard sprayer with added shower head. it works great for for cleanup, Instead of a sink we use 3 plastic dish pans for dishes (one for hot water and soap, 1 for rinse and 1 for bleach water). I wanted to feel more like camping , so not take my kitchen sink with us helps

I second "Steve Fredrick's Teardrop Shop Building Manual" well worth the cost. His web site also has lots of pictures and he will respond to your emails when you have questions about his build manual

I sure others will have more comments/opinions.

Good luck on your build

Dan

[FIREBALL05]

Hi tony, Thanks for the reply, any chance you happen to have a link to previous discussions on the hatch topic? Perhaps I'm not sure what the proper search terms would be!

[ctstaas]

Hi Fireball, Yes to 1. When I built my hatch I used 1" square tubing rolled to the proper shape and welded together in a very solid frame. I skinned with 1/4" plywood with 1 1/2" Al. flat on three sides to form a lip. I cut relief in the inside of the plywood down to the outside layer with my skilsaw so it would bend easy. The plywood and Al. strip is pop riveted to the frame. A frame made of 3/4" tubing might be better because it would be lighter considering the size of you hatch. It will never warp and any shape is possible. My galley is work in progress so no help there.
Your design is very good so I have a lot of confidence in your abilities. I am planning a 5'x5'x10' so am very interested in your build. I have drawings but am still struggling with how to post.
Enjoy, Chris

[tony.latham]

Hi tony, Thanks for the reply, any chance you happen to have a link to previous discussions on the hatch topic? Perhaps I'm not sure what the proper search terms would be!

I got the following with these two search words: plywood radius

viewtopic.php?t=3425&p=33304
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=56943
viewtopic.php?t=41781&p=778500
viewtopic.php?t=5803&p=63566

These links will get your started but that search brings up over a hundred conversations about the subject. You're not the first to wonder about it. (That last thread is a poll on bending plywood. There are several (38%) votes for a 6" radius with 1/8" plywood. A lot will depend on the type of plywood of course.

Tony

[FIREBALL05]

Thanks for the responses so far! A few thoughts:

The big appeal of the TD for us is to drastically improve over our current camping experience. The biggest part of this is setup and teardown time. The current routine of parking, finding tent location, clearing rocks, putting down tarp, setting up tent, blowing up 4 pads, unrolling 4 bags, unloading gear from the Thule storage box, clearing out the tailgate space to setup the cooking gear, etc, etc is about a 30' routine. Packing up takes a few minutes longer. That's with my wife and I working our butts off and the kids being mildly helpful So while a ground tent for the kids and dog would be a good idea sometimes, it doesn't fulfill one of our primary goals. We will still have our ground tent so for extended stays we can bring it along. The RTT can also be moved to the truck if we ever want to take a trip that wouldn't involve the TD.

We would not have a sink in the galley. It would be a drop down side table with a drop in sink. I've seen this setup on lots of utility trailers and it is pretty slick. The decision that we have to make in the early stages is whether or not we need/want the 19 gal water tank built into the chassis. I like the extra storage, I like the integration, I'm not thrilled about maintainence/upkeep (we live in PA where freezing will be an issue, and we have sensitive palettes and like our drinking water to taste good!) and just not sure we really need it.

@ctstaas - do you have photos of your build? I looked through those links and have been checking out some builds but haven't seen the tight radius in practice just yet.

Thanks again guys!

[tony.latham]

"The biggest part of this is setup and teardown time. The current routine of parking, finding tent location, clearing rocks, putting down tarp, setting up tent, blowing up 4 pads, unrolling 4 bags, unloading gear from the Thule storage box, clearing out the tailgate space to setup the cooking gear, etc, etc is about a 30' routine. Packing up takes a few minutes longer. That's with my wife and I working our butts off..."


That's one of the many things we love about teardrop camping. It takes us about five minutes and we're set up; parked, unhitched, leveled (with a block or two of wood if needed), and table and chairs set out. The same with packing up. Life is simple. We camped back in June with some friends of ours that tented. It gave me Viet Nam flashbacks watching them set up and tear down –and I was never even in 'Nam.

We boondock and find that our 7 gallons of water is fine for two nights three days and that's with two big dogs. Any longer than that we take another three gallon jug and put it in the back of the truck (and that also covers a shower). But you guys are campers so already have your water needs figured.

We're headed out Sunday on another fine and simple adventure.

Tony

[bentrotor]

Have you thought about a cargo trailer? Your Land Cruiser should handle a 5 x 10 easy. Buy new or used, figure about $1500 -$1800 and you have a trailer that is already built, all you have to do is finish out to your liking. Maybe a "loft" or platform for upper sleeping and your kids will be right inside safe and sound. There should be plenty of room for the dog and you get the benefit of being able to stand up to move around. Check the cargo trailer section for ideas.

[FIREBALL05]

Yes, paged through the cargo trailer builds but this is an off road built. We want to be able to take on all the local state forest roads and mild trails. Also will be doing a summer adventure next year our West....CO, UT, etc. For the hardest of trails we'll dump it and just take the LC, but I don't think the CT would be the best option for us. With the design I posted above it is probably closer to a CT shape, but on an off road tear drop frame, so hopefully for us the best of both worlds. Here's an example of the kind of sites we want to be able to get to with it:


Two more design questions:

1. What do you think about the front shape? As drawn a vertical front? Option 2 the 12" radius? Or Option 3 a more "typical" TD shape?


2. The fender design can be extended towards the front of the TD to form a ledge or step under the door entry. Is this a good idea? I put the approx. height off the ground the bottom of the TD will be. My wife is 5'6"... would a step make ingress/egress easier, or just be a shin grabber?

Thanks again!

[kayakdlk]

My personal opinion is you don't step into or crawl into a teardrop so no step needed. You usually don't crawl into bed. You sit down and then swing you legs in and then you are lying down. If planned out (correct height from ground, correct door location from front etc.) you just sit down in the door opening and swing your legs in and and you are lying down in bed. In that case the side step would be in the way and hit the back of your legs.

A small ledge/fender extension on the side might be nice as it is a place you can put your camp shoes (sandals/crocks) up off the ground, or coffee mug. I use my flat top fenders for that purpose, or put my shoes in a plastic box under neath the door.

Dan

[FIREBALL05]

This is the fender style I was copying in my design above. Note they have a foot step below the door.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1408675338.017928.jpg (120.16 KiB) Viewed 1383 times

[pchast]

If you are concerned about ground clearance and height,
why not just carry a small stool.

[ctstaas]

Hi Tony, I found mee. Yeah. Look under members. My pics are on page 25 of the "C"s. I am still getting the hang of posting pics. Even if I had to make the elbows out of sheet metal, I would still tend to use this idea to make my next hatch or yours. If I went with an onboard, fixed water tank, it would be custom made stainless. If I'm not going to do it right I don't want to do it at all if I can help it. When I installed my roof (Pre forum) all Heck broke loose several times and my plywood broke. I relieved the inside of the galley skin because of visibility concerns. I didn't want to relieve the roof inside the cabin because i didn't want to see these cuts. If I were to do it again I would consider relieving the plywood and covering with a veneer.
Enjoy, Chris

[ctstaas]

Hi Tony, I forgot to mention my fenders. Store bought with a skirt inside. The skirt is factory spot welded only so I welded the skirt to the inside of the fender and bolted it to the walls. Very, very strong. Sit on, stand on, no problem. Roof access, great. Problem? Now I need to build running boards and a roof rack. Do I need running boards and a roof rack? No, but they are so cool. I'll probably never be finished and that's OK. I'll finish the galley when I find the "must have " design for me. Until then what I have works just fine for me and that the real beauty of a TD.
Enjoy, Chris