Notes on Quality

[Socal Tom]

I'm a quality consultant, so at some point my mind out TDs and quality together. So I thought I would start a thread about quality and see what happened.
First, a definition. For purposes of this discussion , Quality means getting a Tear Drop that meets your expectations. It is NOT a discussion about the prettiest cabinets, or the number of repairs you needed.

1) it's critical to understand your expectations. Before you embark to build or buy a TD, you should understand your requirements. For. Example,
1) the trailer should not leak in typical weather in your area ( I think this is probably a common expectation.)
2) it should fit a bed of a particular size bed.
Other requirements could be total weight, galley size, water capacity etc.

Now once you have your list of requirements , then look for conflicts. If your weight requirement is 1000 lbs., and you want to carry 50 gallons of water you may have to compromise. But once you work through the compromises understood you can start designing. The design should fit the requirements.

For example, if you want doors that can survive a very wet environment, then you may want to plan on commercial doors, or choose a door design with a high probability of not leaking.

If you want a TD that weighs under 1000 lbs then with traditional methods you are probably looking at a 5x9 or smaller.

If you want to make an inexpensive TD then a 4x8 is probably going to be least expensive.

So this is where I'm hoping we can join our collective brains together. What requirements can you guys think of, and what did you, or would you do to meet it. On the site we have a lot of information that could be collected together to help future builders with requirements. For example, the thread on TD weights can be a guideline on the typical weights for TDs.


For my contribution ,
Requirement 1)Galley under counter depth should be at least 22 inches ( to fit camp chef oven long ways)

2) Bed length to be at least 75 inches ( length of full size).
I'm 69 inches long, and this is about as short as I can go with room for a pillow and not curling or laying cross ways. So height of tallest person plus about 6 inches works for me.( plus sheets fit this way.

I hope this makes sense, and many of you contribute.
Tom

[Java Jack]

Hey Tom,

I think the challenge here is that everyone has their own unique needs some of which will be in direct opposition to the needs of others. For example, someone towning with a small vehicle may have a weight limit of 1000lbs and therefore may restrict features to save on weight. However, someone towing with a V8 Truck may not care about weight and therefore load up on features. It may be useful to categorize requirements into sections by size/weight.

For me: I wanted something with enough ground clearance to take off road (I ride dirt bikes). Did not need to be fully jeep trail type trailer, but enough that I would not beat it up taking it down some dirt roads. Therefore, minimum 12" ground clearance.

I wanted Queen size mattress.
Water, electric and gas for both dry and hook up camping
Extra space up front for dog so she does not take away from bed space for wife and I.
Aluminum finish (would really like stainless steel exterior but not really an option)
AC a must here in Texas

[JaggedEdges]

As end user, and manager of my teardrop build, I expect construction to be to ISO9001 standards, therefore I will print a crapload of forms and get the labor to sign off every procedure.

As labor in my teardrop build, I expect management to supply less than perfect materials, and try to hold me responsible when they don't go together quite right. The first 3 nails that don't drive straight, I will call manager over for a variance, by about the third, he'll just be too annoyed and tell me to sign it off anyway. Then I'll just proceed to slam through it best I can to meet production quota, knowing that all management really wants is the paper signed and product out the door.

As a manager I plan to use statistical process control with a sample of one to ensure compliance with quality procedures. As long as the sample comes somewhat close to customer expectations I'll get labor to sign off on it as standard product.

As end user I will be impressed by the thorough documentation of the build and the ISO9001 compliance, I shall ignore obvious deviances from what I thought I'd get because if it's built to some international standard it can't be all that bad right? Plus the prolific slaughter of trees to provide a blow by blow record of production give me a warm fuzzy feeling, like I might get these guys to build me another one.

[Socal Tom]

As end user, and manager of my teardrop build, I expect construction to be to ISO9001 standards, therefore I will print a crapload of forms and get the labor to sign off every procedure.

As labor in my teardrop build, I expect management to supply less than perfect materials, and try to hold me responsible when they don't go together quite right. The first 3 nails that don't drive straight, I will call manager over for a variance, by about the third, he'll just be too annoyed and tell me to sign it off anyway. Then I'll just proceed to slam through it best I can to meet production quota, knowing that all management really wants is the paper signed and product out the door.

As a manager I plan to use statistical process control with a sample of one to ensure compliance with quality procedures. As long as the sample comes somewhat close to customer expectations I'll get labor to sign off on it as standard product.

As end user I will be impressed by the thorough documentation of the build and the ISO9001 compliance, I shall ignore obvious deviances from what I thought I'd get because if it's built to some international standard it can't be all that bad right? Plus the prolific slaughter of trees to provide a blow by blow record of production give me a warm fuzzy feeling, like I might get these guys to build me another one.

I'll agree, a lot of times people and companies mistake paperwork for quality. In the end, the paper is meant to ensure that 1) you know what you want, and 2) you build what you want, and you check that it is what it was supposed to be. I've been a lot of places where, the build it first, then figure out what it is, and then check to make sure they got it right. ( and half the time it still fails even when it was built before the specs were written). But that is sort of the point of this thread. By nature we build first, and think about it later. I'm hoping to help the next poor sap understand what He or She wants before they just follow the GB plans and realize they really wish they had made it 6 inches longer.
Tom

[Socal Tom]

Hey Tom,

I think the challenge here is that everyone has their own unique needs some of which will be in direct opposition to the needs of others. For example, someone towning with a small vehicle may have a weight limit of 1000lbs and therefore may restrict features to save on weight. However, someone towing with a V8 Truck may not care about weight and therefore load up on features. It may be useful to categorize requirements into sections by size/weight.

For me: I wanted something with enough ground clearance to take off road (I ride dirt bikes). Did not need to be fully jeep trail type trailer, but enough that I would not beat it up taking it down some dirt roads. Therefore, minimum 12" ground clearance.

I wanted Queen size mattress.
Water, electric and gas for both dry and hook up camping
Extra space up front for dog so she does not take away from bed space for wife and I.
Aluminum finish (would really like stainless steel exterior but not really an option)
AC a must here in Texas

I'm not trying to make a universal list of requirements, just a list of things to consider in a new design. So in the end, it would be sort of a blank template with a list of potential things to make requirements from. From yours above I got the following

1) Bed size
2) additional interior space for animals or?
3) Electrical power requirements AC and or DC
4) DC battery reserve capacity requirements
5) Water storage?
6) Water Pump
7) Sink? How will Gray water be handled?
Exterior Finish
9) Air conditioning
10) Propane ( built in pipping or location for tank storage)
11) Ground clearance requirements
12) Tire size
Tom

[Tom Kurth]

I'm reminded of a guy on a strip-built canoe forum. He insisted that he could build a 'perfect' canoe because he met his own arbitrarily established tolerances. Having seen pictures of his work, I am quite willing to admit that he did very high quality work, but to claim perfection was a bit much. He was an irascible character anyway. Your definition of quality makes a whole lot more sense than his definition of perfection.

Best,
Tom

[JaggedEdges]

Bah, perfectionists, 2 thou ought to be close enough for anyone


But I'm getting your point Tom, I have been covering such points for myself in a disorganised and ad hoc fashion in my initial figgerin' thread.

[ctstaas]

Hi Socal Tom, For me quality is more of the things you can't see or wouldn't notice but are cool or bulletproof. I let my spars into my walls while others use butt joints. Will anyone ever know or care? My foam mattress is split down the middle so when I travel I can stack the two halves and have my gear on the floor and not compressing my mattress. I cut my foam down the center on a diagonal so when they are in place there is no gap to fall into while you are sleeping. Cutting my foam like that was one of the best ideas of my whole build. My cabin cabinet doors slide instead of swing to save space. My TD isn't finished but the future upgrades have already been planned in. My hatch frame is rolled square steel tubing and is really strong. Hints of quality everywhere if you look hard enough or know what your'e looking for.
Enjoy, Chris

[Socal Tom]

Hi Socal Tom, For me quality is more of the things you can't see or wouldn't notice but are cool or bulletproof. I let my spars into my walls while others use butt joints. Will anyone ever know or care? My foam mattress is split down the middle so when I travel I can stack the two halves and have my gear on the floor and not compressing my mattress. I cut my foam down the center on a diagonal so when they are in place there is no gap to fall into while you are sleeping. Cutting my foam like that was one of the best ideas of my whole build. My cabin cabinet doors slide instead of swing to save space. My TD isn't finished but the future upgrades have already been planned in. My hatch frame is rolled square steel tubing and is really strong. Hints of quality everywhere if you look hard enough or know what your'e looking for.
Enjoy, Chris

The point of my post is to discuss how to make sure your TD meets your expectations, not to discuss what your definition of quality is.
I'm assuming that you intend to pull your trailer over rough roads frequently, hence the need for the extra measures to make it "bullet proof". For many others it would be a waste of time, money and weight to incorporate those features. The foam cutting idea is another way to address a perceived issue. The other ways are to have a mattress you can roll up, or have enough space that your gear doesn't go on the floor, or include a "shelf" over the bed to put your gear on. You have specific requirements, and that is fine, but it doesn't mean that the rest of us have the same requirements or needs.
Tom

[Java Jack]

Hey Tom,

I think the challenge here is that everyone has their own unique needs some of which will be in direct opposition to the needs of others. For example, someone towning with a small vehicle may have a weight limit of 1000lbs and therefore may restrict features to save on weight. However, someone towing with a V8 Truck may not care about weight and therefore load up on features. It may be useful to categorize requirements into sections by size/weight.

For me: I wanted something with enough ground clearance to take off road (I ride dirt bikes). Did not need to be fully jeep trail type trailer, but enough that I would not beat it up taking it down some dirt roads. Therefore, minimum 12" ground clearance.

I wanted Queen size mattress.
Water, electric and gas for both dry and hook up camping
Extra space up front for dog so she does not take away from bed space for wife and I.
Aluminum finish (would really like stainless steel exterior but not really an option)
AC a must here in Texas

I'm not trying to make a universal list of requirements, just a list of things to consider in a new design. So in the end, it would be sort of a blank template with a list of potential things to make requirements from. From yours above I got the following

1) Bed size
2) additional interior space for animals or?
3) Electrical power requirements AC and or DC
4) DC battery reserve capacity requirements
5) Water storage?
6) Water Pump
7) Sink? How will Gray water be handled?
Exterior Finish
9) Air conditioning
10) Propane ( built in pipping or location for tank storage)
11) Ground clearance requirements
12) Tire size
Tom

Ah, I understand now...it's more of a list of different things a person should consider when thinking about a teardrop...not so much a personal list of what is important to a specific type of teardrop.