Round Wiley Window alternative?

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Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Brushy_Bill » Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:57 pm

I have started this thread in order not to highjack NMMarauder's foamie build thread.
I had asked NMM about his Wiley windows in his build thread and it opened up
a discussion on alternatives to round windows that open.

Talia62 brought up making a round swing out window. I tried to put a link here to his reply,
but it linked to the entire page. I have just copied and pasted his quote.


Talia62 wrote:How difficult would it be to make your own non-Wiley-style round windows that open?

I can envision a simple round window hinged at the top so it can be opened towards the outside even in the rain. The screen issue could be easily addressed either by having the screen on a narrow frame that is hinged on the inside of the trailer, and opens to the inside for access to the window latch. Or, don't even hinge the screen, but mount flat rare earth magnets in the frame and just stick the screen to the wall. That would make a nice flush mount with nothing protruding into the inside of the trailer.


I find this interesting, and challenging.
The secret will be in the hinge. It must be wide enough to be twist proof, but be stiff/tight enough to hold the window in it's open position.
I see it being mortised in the top of the window and the frame so that the inside face of the window is flat to provide a seal surface.
I can picture a small close fitting hood over the narrow hinge to provide a drip cap and possibly sit below a larger round drip cap
The window can be framed in plywood as NMMaurader did his, Canvased over leaving the hinge and outside window removed. then
reinstalled after it is painted.

The drip rail could fit very close to the actual diameter of the window down to nearly it's full diameter. Reminiscent of the visors over the
top of the headlights on cars years ago.

Possibly a modified shash lock to hold the window snugly when closed?
Keep in mind that this will be used in a foamie with 2 inch thick walls. I can see possibly having
enough room to fit the lock between the closed window and the interior screen.

The magnets Talia62 mentioned for holding the screen is highly possible.

It may also be possible to have a small rod (or two) on the bottom of the window that can fold up when closed.
Swing the window open, let the rod swing down and have a small wing nut type clamp you can lay it in
mounted on the interior of the plywood frame between the screen and the actual window that can hold the window in it's open position.
This would eliminate the stiff hinge I mentioned earlier.

I am going to play around with this in the cad software and see if we can skin this cat.
Thanks for making a guy think Talia62.

Anyone have anything to add to this please speak up.

Edited for poor spelling.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby NugHunter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:40 pm

Haven't checked out the other thread so this may be way off for what you are looking to do but im a boat guy too so I thought of this..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bomar-N1170-10P ... 1847950787

Image
Last edited by NugHunter on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Brushy_Bill » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:16 pm

NugHunter wrote:Haven't checked out the other thread so this may be way off for what you are looking to do but..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bomar-N1170-10P ... 1847950787

Image


Fine looking piece of kit. Not much for looking
through though. Would save some dollars on
curtains.
The standie I am drawing up requires 6 windows. In
three different diameters.
(Maybe eight with four different diameters)

$1200 is too rich for my blood.
Thanks for the reply.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby NugHunter » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:09 pm

Brushy_Bill wrote:
Fine looking piece of kit. Not much for looking
through though. Would save some dollars on
curtains.
The standie I am drawing up requires 6 windows. In
three different diameters.
(Maybe eight with four different diameters)

$1200 is too rich for my blood.
Thanks for the reply.



LOL that was just an example... with a little looking around you can might find exactly what you are looking for..here are 10" fo $33.oo ..obviously bigger more expensive..good luck :))))) :thumbsup: :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boat-Yacht-Roun ... 5Z&vxp=mtr

Image
Last edited by NugHunter on Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Pmullen503 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:12 pm

What about having them slide up and down guillotine style? You could bury everything in the thick walls. Kinda like the blast gates on dust collection systems.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Tomterrific » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:41 am

I live to think up cheap dumb ideas. How about using a plastic bucket and lid. These are sturdy enough to use as a frame. Cut out the center of the lid and bolt and glue/caulk in a clear circle. Cut off the top of the bucket for the window frame.

How about cutting the plexiglass circle in half and using a living hinge across the cut. The top half would be attached to the frame with the bottom half opening.

Cut two plexi circles almost in half. Just a bit larger so the two pieces overlap in the center. The top half would be solid in the frame with the bottom half rotating around the top to open the bottom of the circle. Screen is perminant on the outside.

Tom

Also, the guillotine idea is brilliant! :-)
Last edited by Tomterrific on Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Talia62 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:46 am

Portholes won't work, since they open the wrong way, and I was specifically commenting on the fact that anything protruding into the interior of a tiny trailer is liable to become a cause for curses and banged heads/elbows. What I was talking about in the Wiley window comment was a round window that opens outward, hinged at the top to shed rain. Commercial porthole style windows open to the inside and have dogs to latch. So even if you turned it around to open outwards, you'd have to go outside to open it. That's right out in my book.

I think it's very possible to make an inexpensive round window that opens to the outside, AND has a screen on the inside, AND the latch sits in the wall thickness between the window and screen, so it can be locked for security. I looked at old fashioned sash locks online yesterday, and there are many available that are narrow profile. If none of them could work, I know I could fab something up that works since I'm a fair hand at jewelry and small metalwork. If I can make a tiny bracelet clasp, I could sure as heck make a small window latch.

Yes, you can buy round windows online. But so far I haven't seen any that a) fit what I would want, and b) are reasonably priced.
Last edited by Talia62 on Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Talia62 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:16 am

Okay, poking around I found a couple things. We'd need a positioning hinge, which is a hinge with enough resistance in it to stay in position, keeping the window opened however little or much you would like. I found a lot of options very quickly using Google. Here's one example for about $15:

http://www.boatoutfitters.com/Hardware/Southco-Black-Plastic-Door-Position-Hinge-C6-23-104.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=058-3848&gclid=CPWt1fCGz8kCFRAWHwod-FkKrA

There are a lot more out there, that's just to get the ball rolling. In order to use one like the above, we'd have to go back to our middle school geometry class and plot a very short chord that cuts through the upper edge of our window circle, just long enough to fit the hinge we choose. Voila, flat mounting spots for a nice hinge, and no twisting problems.

For the lock/latch that will fit inside the frame between the screen and window, grab one like this for about $4:

http://www.longbottomandhardsaw.com/WHITE-SASH-LOCK-p/6462121.htm

You'd probably have to make a small flat section on the frame that holds your window glass or plexi in order to mount the part on the windowpane, but it wouldn't be large enough to detract from the roundishness we're looking to achieve, and you'd be able to open, close, and more importantly LOCK your window from the inside. As far as building framing for mounting the window, get pvc board and heat shape it, then build the frame just like you would with wood. That way your whole window is made from materials that are not bothered a bit by water, and can be easily painted.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Brushy_Bill » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:32 pm

I had mentioned earlier about using a shash lock.

I was looking at using this offset hinge.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=14239

Was able to draw up a frame and window this morning.
It will glue into the side of the foamie just as NMMurader did.
There is plenty of room for a shash lock on the two bottom corners of
the window frame. It is a square frame on the interior.
The round window will protrude from the side of the trailer by the 3/8" offset
in the hinge.

These will be 15 inch diameter windows, found a source for 16" dia x 1/4" plexi for $15 a piece.
The plexi will be sandwiched between a round plywood frame.

I have an idea for a easy window supports when open.

Will post a jpg of the window frame assembly in the morning.
Gotta get off to work.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Talia62 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:57 pm

Looks like we are heading at it from two different directions. I'll be interested to see yours, and when I get around to fabbing up what is rolling around in my head, I'll give it a post-up.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby OP827 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:50 am

I'll be watching this discussion with interest.
I am thinking of making my trailer windows from acrylic and they will be also hinged on top and open to outside, but I did not detail design them yet.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Brushy_Bill » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:59 pm

Here is a quick drawing of the window frame.
The red/brown is the window with the blue showing the plexi.

This is a 15 inch diameter window. It fits into a 23 inch square opening,(flange is 24" sq.) and sits flush with outside
wall of the camper. The interior face of the frame will sit flush with the interior wall. (2 inch Foam)
The actual window will protrude 3/8" from the wall. Swinging from a hinge at the top.

Hinge;
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=14239
Image

Conventional sash locks can be mounted between the 4 and 5 o'clock and 7 and 8 o'clock position inside the frame.

Will try and use a window casement stay like this to push and hold the window open.
it may have to be shortened, but should work fine.
Photo and link to casement stay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOLID-POLISHED-BRASS-WINDOW-CASEMENT-STAY-250mm-SAFETY-LOCKING-SCREW-/311354641676?hash=item487e2ecd0c
Image

The bottom of the actual window and hole it fits in will need to have a slight taper shaved in both (opposite directions) to allow
the window to clear as it starts it's swing to clear the opening. There is also clearance for wrapping canvas over the edge of the opening.

This will be a considerable amount of work compared to the Wiley Window. Especially considering I will need five of them.
But, having well made router patterns and a well planned work process flow will help.
The actual window frame will be made from the best plywood I can find and get generous coatings of "the mix", then painted.
A visor type rain gutter can be fashioned to cover the hinge and extending down to the center of the opening.

I am considering shaping some out of foam or wood in order to give nice lines and not have aluminum protrusions which I think would
detract from the looks of the build.

Will look at routing a small shoulder on the inside face diameter of the window to glue a square rubber seal.

The door window will not open. Probably best not to have a window that large hanging off of it when opening.
The other five should provide plenty of ventilation.
I think one of the reasons folks like the teardrop shape is that it is different. Windows like these will be different, and I think
worthwhile.

Image

As a teaser, here is a image of the profile drawing.
I am sure you can tell this is inspired by NMMarauder's incredible build.
Thanks for showing us what is possible with foam and canvas.

14 foot long, 6'2" highest interior height, 80" exterior width, Is a scaled up Grumman 2 profile.
Window placement same on both sides.
The drawing does not show fender well inside, the storage and interior counter/cabinet will be modified to allow them.
Fore aft counter/cabinet placement will not change. Counter/cabinet is on driver side .
This is a preliminary drawing.

Image

Storage'closet/drawers, TV and cooler slide out (above the storage area) in the rear.
A vented battery storage drawer (accessed from inside) below cooler slide out.
(dual batteries, may be moved to center of front storage area if weight balance is an issue, and probably will)
A pullout stove/cooking area from under the rear storage, curb side.
Electric griddle and george forman grill can be used inside.

A detachable dinette table will hang from the front of interior counter, and will be stored
in a special drawer under the cooler slide and above the battery compartment.
Most places I camp has pickanick tables and usually eat outside.

Outside access storage on driver side rear and both sides in front.

A twin size futon style couch in the front sitting across the interior.
Like this with legs removed, mounted on top of front storage area.
Bed is 73 inches with ends folded down. Interior cabin width is 76"
(most of my trips will be solo, can fit a cot inside when needed)

Image

Once design is mostly finalized, will draw up the trailer frame and get it to the weld shop.
Hope to be building by April of 2016.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby Talia62 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:09 pm

I plan on using a positional hinge rather than trying to mess with something to hold the window open.
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby rowerwet » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:54 pm

I would think a round window pivoted from the top would tend to let rain in when open.
Hinged to pivot across the middle might be better, but screening it could be an issue
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Re: Round Wiley Window alternative?

Postby KennethW » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:05 pm

rowerwet wrote:I would think a round window pivoted from the top would tend to let rain in when open.
Hinged to pivot across the middle might be better, but screening it could be an issue

I don't get why one would not go with a wiley window. It solves all the problems,is easy to build and low cost. If you make it with a removeable screen (a plastic panel with a hole and a screen glued to it. You have a lot of combinations for all kinds of weather. You could even have a fan or heater as a panel instead of the window. Even a swamp cooler is possible. I have a fully vented propane heater I but in mine when needed.
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