Fenders - not sure how I should do this (**New Pics 8-11-18)

[eagle24]

Got my frame all done except the fenders. I plan to let the outer plywood lap over to hide the frame. The outside will be covered with epoxy/fiberglass cloth and painted. I'm not sure how I should do the fenders or when I should do them. What is the best way to do them? I want a sturdy fender that can be stepped on.

[bmr528]

Mounting a fender should be fairly easy.. making it strong enough to stand on will be the hard part.. You probably can't attach it to the side ( Plywood side) and depend on just the plywood to support you.. I would venture that you are going to have to weld some kind of bracing out from the frame to provide the majority of the support.

Might be easier to just put a light weight fender on and stand on top of the tire itself..

Just a thought. you may be able to make a metal shelf/step that slips over the tire.

djl

[tony.latham]

Good question.

Some builders attach the fenders to the walls. We mostly boondock so there is always a chance of catching a fender on a stump or other obstacle and banging a fender that's screwed to the sidewall might result in severe damage to the wall.



Your chassis screams off-road thus I wouldn't recommend you put the fenders on the walls. I would consider welding tubing under the chassis laterals to support your fenders. If you weren't overlapping your walls, you could butt the tubing. (Or you could slot the overlaps to fit?)

And that brings the discussion on how you are going to build. On my last two builds, I've done the cabin on a dolly and installed it on the chassis after it's nearly done. (But I don't overlap and that could make for a loading challenge.) It's a pain to work around fenders, wheels, and the tongue. Either way, I'd for sure fiberglass your walls before you install them on the floor.



Tony

[eagle24]

Good question.

Some builders attach the fenders to the walls. We mostly boondock so there is always a chance of catching a fender on a stump or other obstacle and banging a fender that's screwed to the sidewall might result in severe damage to the wall.



Your chassis screams off-road thus I wouldn't recommend you put the fenders on the walls. I would consider welding tubing under the chassis laterals to support your fenders. If you weren't overlapping your walls, you could butt the tubing. (Or you could slot the overlaps to fit?)

And that brings the discussion on how you are going to build. On my last two builds, I've done the cabin on a dolly and installed it on the chassis after it's nearly done. (But I don't overlap and that could make for a loading challenge.) It's a pain to work around fenders, wheels, and the tongue. Either way, I'd for sure fiberglass your walls before you install them on the floor.



Tony

Thanks Tony!

Lots of this going on So far, the only thing I can come up with is to weld a tubular steel frame for the fender and weld it to the underside of the chassis sides. I have some heavy 1" sq tubing in my shop that should work. The part that will be time consuming is spacing it off the frame the exact thickness of the outer plywood plus fiberglass skin so that there isn't a gap or it doesn't interfere with the wall. I guess I could put a couple of screws through the fender frame into the wall at the top for added support and to hold the fender tight. It would be nice if they weren't necessary as they will be a potential spot for water to penetrate the wall. I guess I can glass the wall, fasten it with screws and put screws through the fender into the wall, then remove it, apply the glue, and put sealant in the holes for the fender screws.

[working on it]

Got my frame all done except the fenders. I plan to let the outer plywood lap over to hide the frame. The outside will be covered with epoxy/fiberglass cloth and painted. I'm not sure how I should do the fenders or when I should do them. What is the best way to do them? I want a sturdy fender that can be stepped on.

• I welded my fenders directly to the frame, in three spots, and with steel angle bracing front and rear ends. Though not intended to be stepped on, they have been, once or twice by others (not me, at 225+ lbs), and have been used as seats at other times (again, by smaller persons).
• If I had bought Jeep-style fenders, I would've made the end bracing thicker (and maybe full width across the frame, acting as another set of cross-members), to hold more weight, but I chose the rounded fenders instead, to act as just fenders. In your case, if you weld on sturdy end bracing, then you could hang your siding over and around the braces, and weld (or bolt-on, for easy repair work) your fender assembly to the end bracing, after your sidewalls are finished. That way, you could even change out your fenders for a wider set, later, unlike in my case, where I had to make my own fender flares to cover wider tires.
• Here's my reasoning behind my fender installation, where I never anticipated needing the fenders to ever be removed, or widened:

from another thread:

• I have no experience with attaching fenders directly to either foam or wood trailer walls, but many years of experience with using steel fenders attached to trailer frames, using inner shields of steel, or hard plastic, on mostly open trailers. I've seen, and experienced damaged fenders, from encountering large road debris... or in one case where a tire blew-out, and the shredded tire had enough force to damage my thick steel fender (I was driving at 75+ mph), but my race car on the trailer was untouched, saved by the inner fender shield.
• If you need to attach your teardrop or TTT fender directly to the wall itself, and not isolated from it, by frame or suspension mounts, then use heavy-duty hardware, and use an inner shield (backing plate) in any case. Using 1/8" spacers might allows water to drain from the fender-wall interface, but if a backing plate is used, it will make the spacer unneeded. On my squareback trailer, I used both a frame-mount, a backing plate, and also left a 1" between cabin wall and fender assembly; no water or dirt ever touches the wall, protected by the isolated fender (I can easily clean my wall behind the fender, also, with a thin sponge).
• My trailer is an odd width, 50", and my floor is 48" wide (my walls sit on top of the floor, giving me 46.5" inside cabin width), so that left me with the 1" gap between frame edge and walls, making attachment directly to the sidewalls infeasible. And, with my first axle not having brake backing plates, the free-floating fender assembly that I would've used (I've admired them on many street-rods, and wanted to build one) was impossible also. So, frame-mounting was the best choice, in my case. Since my design intent was for a heavy-duty, semi-offroad trailer, I bought heavy steel fenders with optional backing plates, welded the plates on, and welded (not by me, but by a pro,,,I didn't weld when he was available!), and welded them onto the frame in five spots (not a continuous weld, to avoid warpage), with stiffening bars (1" steel angle) on front and rear fender edges (also welded to the frame). Very strong, very protective!

• 

  fender mounting rationale pictured.jpg (247.83 KiB) Viewed 3627 times

  alternative fender-mounting ideas; I recommend using an inner shield on all fenders

[eagle24]

Thanks. Good ideas. Especially the removeable option. I disagree on the backing shield though. Only because I don't like the idea of water being trapped between the trailer side and the backing shield.

Greg

[NorthEGPhoto]

Hmm.. if standing on it is what you want, I expect the best course of action would be to weld a frame out of 1" square tubes in a polygonal shape Think something like /─\ then weld plates on the frame. My dad did something like that with his landscaping trailer when the original round fenders rusted off. We stand on them all the time. since you won't have the advantage of a full steel box, you'll probably have to think of a way to reinforce them with bracing. maybe brace them from below, but that will reduce your clearance a bit.

[eagle24]

Hmm.. if standing on it is what you want, I expect the best course of action would be to weld a frame out of 1" square tubes in a polygonal shape Think something like /─\ then weld plates on the frame. My dad did something like that with his landscaping trailer when the original round fenders rusted off. We stand on them all the time. since you won't have the advantage of a full steel box, you'll probably have to think of a way to reinforce them with bracing. maybe brace them from below, but that will reduce your clearance a bit.

That's kind of what I have in mind. Weld a basic jeep style fender frame out of the 1" tube (1/8" wall). Then weld maybe some 1/8" steel plate on for the fenders. I think I can run a couple of screws into the walls and between that support and the tubes welded to the frame, it should be plenty strong. I might countersink tee nuts on the backside of the wall framing before the inside plywood is put on.

[Padilen]

I used a 2x2piece of square tube to mount these. Welded to frame an to fender

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[Padilen]

I just realized in the back is the TT tandem frame that was cut down for this. The fenders where mounted on angle welded to frame, and square tube welded to side supports of top rail.


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[Tom&Shelly]

Our trailer builder welded two angle irons on each side of each fender. A little bit of work, but he cut the material and welded a plate at an angle onto the angle iron, and also welded a cap on the end.

He welded them below the frame at our request so we can have the teardrop sides overlap.



Seems like as good a solution as any. I can stand on the fenders with them mounted this way (3 quarter 20's on each side of each fender). I can get to them to remove the fenders without too much difficulty.

We may regret not paying more attention to how Tony builds his teardrops on a pallet, but we plan to bolt the floor down and then install the sides on the trailer, maneuvering to avoid the tires (although we could take those off, of course) and spare tire holder. If our fit isn't perfect, we have the option to notch the sides of the walls around the fender holders (and spare tire holder) by an eighth inch or so.

Tom

[Tomterrific]

I wedge a 2x4 between the tire and the light fender on my trailer. It is then sturdy enough to step on.

Tt

[eagle24]

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas guys. I think I have it about figured out. This being my first build, I'm trying not to get to that "uh-oh" moment. I know it probably will happen, but I'm trying hard to avoid it.

[eagle24]

I really have some things to figure out here. Several issues. First, my frame is much higher than the trailer my build is inspired by, so the fenders extend well below the frame.


Second, if I center the fender on the tire, it won't be against the trailer side. If I put it against the trailer side it won"t be centered on the tire and it won't cover the entire tire width. This is a 10" wide fender.

[working on it]

I really have some things to figure out here. Several issues....
if I center the fender on the tire, it won't be against the trailer side. If I put it against the trailer side it won"t be centered on the tire and it won't cover the entire tire width. This is a 10" wide fender.

• If you decide to mount your fenders directly to your trailer side, then fender flares may help you out.
• When I first welded my 9"-wide fenders to the frame, the tires/wheels were then made to fit under them by using 1.25" spacers. Much later, when I replaced the axle, I tried ordering it to the same width, so the tires would remain centered, but Dexter insisted on a wider width. The tires were then moved out to a point where they were barely covered by the fenders,
• Three years later, when I retired the ancient (12+ years-old) Carlisle bias-ply ST tires, and replaced them with wider LT tires, the fenders no longer covered the tires. Not wanting to remove the solidly-mounted fenders, I searched for cheap fender flares to cover the exposed tires, but finally opted to make my own. The wife was already pissed that I had bought the tires, so in lieu of buying pre-made flares at http://www.lowrangeoffroad.com/flexy-flares-rubber-fender-extensions-2-5-wide-and-4-25-wide-by-the-foot.html, I cheaped-out, and built my own, not-so-great-looking, but functional flares (and matching mud-flaps for about $20 (including hardware). Details are here, in three back-to-back posts in another thread: http://www.tnttt.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=67087&hilit=+vigoro&p=1203450#p1198611
• So, since you haven't yet mounted your fenders, and if you decide to use "professionally made" fender flares, then I suggest installing the flares prior to mounting the fenders; all the work I put in on my flare project murdered my back for weeks thereafter, so installing the flares on a workbench would've made it easier to do, and probably better-appearing as a result.