Mr Heater vs Propex vs Diesel

[Cosmo]

Some surprising results when crunching numbers (if you are a heavy heat user).
You mileage may vary!

Happy Camping
=Cosmo

[John61CT]

Can't stand video, if someone can post a text summary greatly appreciated

[Cosmo]

I like information I find it where ever it is.

Incomplete summary:
Mr heater is expensive if you use a lot of heat.
It could pay for the $900 Propex depending how much you use it. I included supporting data for scrutiny.

If you are thinking of getting a Diesel heater you should consider the high number of videos complaining about them... Ooops sorry you dont like video. Maybe you could search on youtube and read the comments if your interested. Lots of complaining about soot problems, glow plug replacement and the 13 part video tutorial about how to keep one running and the tools you need to take it apart and clean it. I dont think those will make it to print.

There was more including how to fill a Coleman 1 pound bottle correctly to save several dollars per re-fill.
It includes some Pssssst sounds and a 1 pound propane bottle designed to be refilled ( it has a bleeder valve) and some safety warnings for those who dont use that bottle and may try to blow themselves up.

If you need anything else just let me know.
Excuse me I have to go wash my hands again before I scratch my nose. Baw haw haw haw haw.

Regards
=Cosmo

[tony.latham]

It could pay for the $900 Propex...

That must include the Vistabule installation? (Which is more than reasonable if it is.)

Here's the current price ($745):

https://www.vancafe.com/HS2000-p/hs2000.htm

It sounds as if they have taken over the U.S. distributorship from Westy Ventures.

Tony

p.s.

Can't stand video

John: I always enjoy Cos's spot-on videos. Your loss.

[John61CT]

Not my choice. . .

[Cosmo]

If you are referring to heaters. What is your choice?
If its video or me, I totally understand.

The reason I post here is because I learn so much from other people every time I post anything.

Thanks
=Cosmo

[John61CT]

Not my choice that I can't do video.

For heaters, if running diesel then an Espar or maybe try a knockoff, buy two for spares.

Propex HS2211 fantastic but need big tanks.

Forget Buddy, must be vented and prefer burning outside the living space.

One exception is the Olympic catalytics to take the edge off instantly while the space is warming up, but turned off after that.

Best really is a hydronic system, get fast hot water too, tie into engine cooling loop and electric when at a powered site.

[Cosmo]

Thanks John.
I will check them out. My learning continues.
Espar is top quality. Have you had to take it apart to service it or clean out soot?
Does it smoke on startup?


Regards
=Cosmo

[tony.latham]

Propex HS2211 fantastic but need big tanks.

And

buy two for spares...

John:

Where do you come up with this stuff? I know you don't own any of these.

The HS2211 --just like my HS2000-- burns 1/3 pound of propane per hour and that's assuming you've left the door open.

You don't need "big tanks."

Cosmo's boots are on the ground. He's the one out there, camping away, and testing stuff that he uses. He's sharing his actual field experiences. Not just jumping from one forum to the next.




Tony

[Cosmo]

I am calling ELMO (Enough Lets Move On).

Technical challenges to any post, productive discussion and ideas seem to always be welcome here. Even the rare half baked ideas and opinions are welcome because we all get to chew on them and learn (not to be confused with agreement). So thanks to all for helping us all.
Its a good point for me to remember not all have access to Youtube for a number of reasons.

Meanwhile I think I will go wash my hands for the 50th time today.
=Cosmo

[bdosborn]

Cosmo,

Great video, people never seem to think about the total cost of ownership, just the up front costs. I have a diesel heater but not a chinese version; I have an Espar. I haven't had any problems with it so far but then again, we are fair weather campers so we hardly ever use it. I went with diesel because I have a diesel truck, I figured I could siphon some out of the truck if the Espar ran dry while camping. I'll probably look long and hard at a Propex if the Espar ever gives me trouble.

Bruce

[featherliteCT1]

Cosmo,
Thanks for another great post.

I just wanted to note that my Chinese Diesel heater works great.

These diesel heaters generally do not soot up unless improperly installed. They will soot up: (i) if the combustion intake and/or combustion exhaust lines are too long or have too many sharp bends, (ii) if the heating intake and/or exhaust lines are too long or have too many sharp bends, (iii) if used motor oil or cooking oil is used as a fuel source, (iv) if the available volts are too low due to electrical lines being too long or insufficient gauge to carry the load, (v) if the air/fuel settings are altered from factory settings, and (vi) if operated in high altitudes without altering the air/fuel settings.

However, they should be cleaned and serviced every 2,000 hours of use, or every 2 years if only used occasionally.

To extend service intervals, I and many others burn kerosene.

The Chinese instruction manuals are notoriously inadequate due to poor translations into English. However, given that most of the Chinese units are Eberspacher (a/k/a Espar) knockoffs, reading the readily available Eberspacher installation manual is invaluable. I suspect that failure to read the literature accounts for most of the improper installations.

One of the comparative advantages of a diesel heater, besides being really cheap, is that they are relatively small in physical size and can be installed in tight spaces. Also, diesel fuel and kerosene are relatively safe fuels because they do not ignite easily, even with an open flame.

[Cosmo]

Good information. Thank You.

I found John Mck 47 to be an incredible resource for diesel heaters.

He has information on every aspect of maintenance including a 13 part tutorial.
Some very good information for anyone interested in learning everything about these heaters.
https://www.youtube.com/user/johnmck1147/videos

Diesel Heater Cleaning the heater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9al0qDxq7o
Glow plug replacement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7f5IKdYiuI&t=314s
Diesel heater Electric consumption https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjvcBiBAqMQ&t=570s
Fuel Consumption https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRF-B74sDmQ


=Cosmo

[Tyrtill]

I have only used my chinese diesel heater for 4 nights so far so I can't comment on reliability but as far as cost of operation it is quite cheap.

I bought the 5KW version for $142 + $26 for some stove pipe and fasteners to get it through my relatively thick foam floor.
I also spent maybe $5 on electrical supplies to switch it off completely when not in use due to it using ~.1 amps at all times

All nights I have run it it has been a low in the mid to upper 30s and the camper has warmed up in 15-25 minutes.
I am basing my fuel usage of a .03ml per dose from the pump which is the absolute upper bounds for the pump.

For my 9 hr run with about half an hour being start up including the high output to warm up the camper I calculated about .1 gallons of diesel used and that seems about right.


0.00000528344(gal) per dose x 5.5(hz) x 1860(s)(~30m) = .048 (gal)

0.00000528344(gal) per dose x .8(hz) x 34200(s) (9.5hr) = .144 (gal)

Totaling ~.193 gallons or about $0.77 for a night of heat ($4 a gallon)
This means that you will get about 10 nights of heat give or take in these conditions with the 10L tank.


Do you have electrical consumption for the propex for 10hrs? My diesel uses about 11.4 amp hrs

MR Buddy can be useful for recreation but for camping in the cold I feel its not a good fit. Too much humidity and non vented generally don't make me sleep easy. (they might make me sleep too easy and way too long)


My Comparison of the other two are

Diesel Heater

Pros
Cheap Initial Investment <$200 for chinese kit from amazon+ odds and ends
Cheap running cost (for your 10 hrs I calculate $0.58-$0.77 depending on fuel price ($3-$4) and dosing pump error) probably closer to the $0.43 right now
Fairly easy to install yourself
Very easy to find fuel
Parts aren't hard to find.
Doesn't use much electricity when running (about .95 A or 12W)Turns out that propex is better with its on off ability
You stay dry because all the combustion stays outside
I can see how much diesel I have left just by looking at the tank no phone required

Cons
All repairs you will probably have to do yourself (pro for some con for others)
Installation you will probably have to do yourself (pro for some con for others)
Startup and shutdown use a lot of electricity (about 1 Amp HR) (only matters for boondocking)

The dosing pump clicking (you can make it quieter but generally you can hear it click Click CLICK !!CLICK!!!)
Stinky especially on startup and shutdown (combustion outside so not your problem except.....

It doesn't ever shutoff all the way unless you power it off. It will idle down to its lowest setting. This is fine if its cold enough that it has to cycle down and up but if its not then cracking a window will be your only hope to not cooking alive. I open the window on the opposite side of the camper to adjust temperature inside so I don't get the diesel smell inside.


Propex ( I don't own but what I've gathered)

Pros
Fairly quiet
Minimal/no smell even outside
Keeps you dry because all combustion is outside
Uses 1.6 amps of electricity or less all the time so startup and shutdown are less of an issue
Probably safer than the Chinese diesel heaters even though the diesel does have some protective circuits
NO DOSING PUMP CLICKING!! (can you tell that's my least favorite part of my heater?)
Cheap to operate according to Cosmo $0.62 for 10 hrs
Edit: (Cosmo told me some info) Electric Consumption 1.4A while running (I'll use 1.6 which is the max from propex) For comparison my diesel uses 4.4A on high
Cosmo says his runs about 12min/hr so at 1.6A that is around .32 AmpHrs/HR or 3.2Amp Hrs for 10 Hrs Compared to 11.4Amp/Hrs for the diesel.

Cons
High Initial Investment
You should probably have professionally installed due to propane however I would probably do it myself.
Propane can be a little harder to get than diesel.
EDIT Moved Electric Consumption to Pros after talking to cosmo
Replacement Parts/Service??? Overseas company


I probably would have opted for the Propex if it wasn't so expensive. If you're on the fence I would say go Propex. Its quiet and isn't smelly and may keep you more comfortable with its ability to turn completely off. The diesel may have some advantage in places that don't have propane readily available but you can plan around that with and extra tank of propane.

[featherliteCT1]

Tyrtill, excellent write up.

Does anybody know if the Propex fuel mixture can be changed to account for higher elevations? With the Diesel heaters, people are having good results by reducing the fuel Hz input by 4% for every 1,000 feet of elevation change, but leaving the fan rpms the same.