Welding advice needed

[DestinDave]

I'd like to extend the tongue on my trailer to accomodate the battery box. I can get a piece of 2-1/2 X 2-1/2 X 3/16 box galvanized steel tubing from work for free. Can this be welded to the existing steel frame? I didn't know if the galvanizing process made any difference. Otherwise I could weld tabs onto the cross members and bolt the tongue to the frame. It will all be primed and painted black after it's attached. Any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks, Dave

[madjack]

Dave from past experience the main thing the galvanizing is gonna do is really piss off the weldor...but it will work
madjack

[randy chesnutt]

you can weld galv. just don't breath in the smoke. it kinda pops and splatter. if you grind it were you will be welding will help. the price is right on the tubing. there is a primer to put on galv. so paint will stick. need to wash it with a cleaner. the saying is to wash it with vinegar

[DestinDave]

Thanks for the tips... I'll hook up a large jobsite fan to blow smoke away and that should keep everyone happy...

[charliehm]

Thanks for the tips... I'll hook up a large jobsite fan to blow smoke away and that should keep everyone happy... :)

Dave,

Your concern shouldn't be "..to keep everyone happy", but to protect everyone's health, not just the welder's, who, hopefully, will be wearing suitable protective equipment up to and including a fit-tested respirator equipped with the proper filters.

Zinc poisoning is not a trivial matter.

Charlie
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Safety and Health Topics > Shipbuilding and Ship Repair > Hazards and Solutions > Respiratory Irritation...

General Hazard: Respiratory Irritation and Systemic Poisoning
Respiratory irritation and systemic poisoning from exposure to toxic fumes and particles during welding and cutting operations.

Hazard Description

A broad range of pyrolysis products are produced during welding operations. Hazardous vapors are produced from the heating of base metals in steel and aluminum alloys. Other pyrolysis products are released from metal coatings and finishes, flux, and welding rods. Exposures and controls needed increase greatly when welding is performed in confined spaces.

Potential hazards exist for:
Oxides of Nitrogen, Nitrogen Dioxide
Ozone
Cadmium. Contained in cadmium-coated steel and may also be present as a minor component in welding materials. Cadmium causes acute and chronic lung disease and chronic systemic disease.
Iron Oxides. May cause siderosis.
Zinc Oxides. Occur from zinc-enriched paints and galvanized steel. Zinc exposure is the usual cause of metal fume fever.
Chromium. May be present in some paints. Chromium is released in significant concentrations when welding stainless steels and is a probable carcinogen when in its hexavalent form (Am. Welding Society).
Manganese. Contained in welding rods.
See the Welding, Cutting, and Brazing Technical Links page for additional information.
Scenarios/Injuries
Siderosis from iron dust inhalation has been found after prolonged exposure. Metal fever (also called "zinc fever," "fume fever," "Monday fever," "foundry fever," and "welders' ague") is sometimes found. Symptoms last for about twenty-four hours and include fever, nausea, and coughing.
As well as chronic systemic poisoning, welding on cadmium-coated steel can cause an acute intoxication without warning symptoms.
Controls
Mechanical ventilation is required during welding and cutting where (1) there is less than 10,000 cubic feet of space per welder, or (2) where the overhead height is less than 16 feet, as required in 1910.252(c)(2).
29 CFR 1910.252(c)(5) through (10) covers welding operations where workers may be exposed to fluorine compounds, zinc, lead, beryllium, cadmium, and mercury.
Welding in confined spaces should be a rare occurrence during the fabrication of structural metal products, but when it occurs, additional requirements are imposed. Where ventilation is insufficient to preclude hazardous exposures, airline respirators or hose masks must be used, as required by 1910.252(c)(4).
References
American Welding Society. Effects of Welding on Health III, Miami, 1983

[Guest]

Good post Charlie!!!
I just about did myself in during my early 20's from zinc poisoning.
Being a self taught brazer, I had no idea about the health risk.
Built a Kinetic Sculpture for the World's Championship Kinetic Race during the dead of winter in an unheated garage.
Closed all the doors, fired up the torch and went to town for about three weeks straight.
Started coughing up a real sweet tasting flem in the morning prior to becoming real sick.
Got pneumonia real bad, which easily relapsed back into pneumonia again.
Took about seven years to get through a winter without getting pneumonia.
A simple basic coarse on welding would have saved me a lot of time, trouble and money....

[Nitetimes]

Yep, the best thing you can do for yourself is grind the galvanizing off of where ever you are going to weld. It will save you a lot of greif in the long run. First, you won't have to breath the fumes, second, your welder will really appreciate not having to weld through it (as will you) a lot less popping, spitting and burns on your body. galvanized is good, but not for welding.

[Steve Frederick]

I used to weld galvanized sheet metal all the time. I worked for a mechanical contractor installing dust collectors and other high pressure duct.
Grind the weld area well, use a mig welder with shielding gas. Use a bit more heat than you might usually think. The welds will look funky, green-ish/yellow film on them. Once you clean them up, prime and paint. Should work well!
As was said, wear a respirator at least. An air-supplied helmet would be best.
Since you aren't at it all of the time, I'd go with a good respirator, and a good fan! Just my opinion.

[doug hodder]

All of the above is great info....I know that SteveE did his entire frame from similar material only smaller size....just follow all the above recommendations, and you'll be fine..Like Dean says....it'll start tasting sweet..but you're not doing that much welding....same taste as when you cut into an old exhause pipe with a torch and get too much smoke...mmmmmm lead/zinc...and to think I was a geologist looking for the stuff.....Doug

[charliehm]

Dean,

I've seen co-workers put into the hospital from zinc poisoning because someone else was scapping machinery in the same space without informing everyone around them that they would be flame cutting on zinc coated materials and that they should either clear out or get a proper respirator. And this wasn't some tiny confined space without good ventilation. It was one of the engine rooms on an aircraft carrier.

I would have been exposed, too, except the minute I entered the space, I smelled the characteristic sweet, sickening smell of burnt galvanized, immedediately realized what was going on, and got myself out of there. What I didn't know was that there were unprotectected people in the space, which is why I go ballistic when anyone gets casual about welding, grinding, burning zinc.

The fumes are harmful. The dusts --such as are produced by grinding-- are harmful. But, like any hazard, there are ways of mitigating the dangers and there are ways of handling the risks responsibly.

Charlie

[Nitetimes]

Also another thing you might want to do is after you weld for about 15 minutes you should drink a glass of milk and take a break for at least 30 minutes. That's what they made us do when we welded galv anyway. I can't say how effective it was but that was what we were supposed to do at the time.

In all honesty tho, as much as you will be welding you shouldn't really have a problem with it. I have done quite a bit more with no ill effects and no special precautions. But everything listed above are good ideas.

[Guest]

Charlie,
Aside from being bit by a brown reclouse spider once, that was the sickest I've ever been, but like I say... took seven years to where I didn't need inhalers or prescription medicine to just breath. I feel I was lucky in that I was young and very fit prior to this happening. Unfortunately though, it was a hard lesson learned. I was brazing galvanized conduit, which was the framework for the machine, finishing it just hours before the race. I was hauled off to the hospital about half way through the three day race.

Nite,
After the problem was finally diagnosed and I was back home... A few friends which just happened to be welders told me about that milk thing... but it was a little late for that.

[DestinDave]

Tons of great info guys - thanks a lot! I had no idea about all that...

I haven't talked to the guy doing the welding yet either but he should know all the concerns - I hope. I'll do all the measuring and grinding before he even has to show up.

We do have respirators at the marina (used a lot I might add) plus we'll be doing the work outside where there's always a 10-15 knot wind. And the huge fan which I'll roll over to the work area.

Thanks again... Dave

[charliehm]

Dave,

A heart-felt thanks from me for your responding positively to all the safety suggestions made.

As has been noted, the job is a small one, so exposures will be minimal, but putting the proper procedures and equipment into place is easy, and the experience gained from doing things right the first time means that the next job on galvanized will be no biggie in terms of knowing how to handle it safely and efficiently.

Charlie