CPES

[DudKC]

I wasn't planning on epoxying the trim into place, I was leaning more towards the caulk. I think the 4 oz cloth will be good under the trim to help seal out water. I just got back from the hardware store but they only had a package of 3M that looked real thick and it didn't say what the weight was. I found this website.

http://www.uscomposites.com/cloth.html

Would this 4 oz cloth work well?

Should I put the first coat of epoxy on, then lay the tape down, then put the 2nd coat down, or how should I do that?

[dh]

The fabric won't help waterproof, in this application it helps to prevent the epoxy from cracking by reinforcing the corner.

I'm going to staple my cloth in place, and use the dry method (its in the user manual. However, I'm painting mine, so staples probably won't work for you. But, your putting trim over it, so maybe it wil be ok.

[doug hodder]

I've always dry applied my cloth. That way you can stretch it a bit and get all the weave looking nice. While it does go "invisible", you can still see the weave a bit. On a pre-wetted surface I find it way hard to get the cloth looking good and if not tensioned, you can end up with a lump of cloth that won't flatten down. I know that this can be done, I've just not had much luck at that method.

I stretch it, tape the edges, then pour the epoxy on or drizzle it and use a squeegee to smear it out and get it all clear. I start in 1 spot and work from there so it gets really wet. Don't starve the cloth of resin by too much pressure on the squeegee. And for what it's worth, I'd doubt you'd get any cloth to go over a hard 90 on a compound curve and hold the tight edge.

On your trim, I'd plan on epoxy coating out the back side before install. Any water that can get in behind it will cause the top surface to eventually pop. I learned this the hard way.

If'n it were me, I'd use a 3M 5200 caulk/adhesive available in caulk gun sized tubes. It's made for below water uses, not cheap, but a lot better than a home type latex or acrylic caulk. You're probably gonna see some of the caulk when all done however. I thicken up epoxy with silica and install the trim so that I get a bit of squish, and wipe it down with a finger. That way I get a fairly clear "fillet".

I'd check with a marine place or you can order your cloth from West Systems Geougon (sp?) Bros. At least you get all the same stuff and as big as you need, comes rolled on a tube. Doug

[dh]

Also, try to work the epoxy with the squege only as much as needed, overworking can cause air bubles. I've read about using a short bristle brush instead of a squege on clear finishes, but don't remember enough to relay here.

[Larry C]

I wasn't planning on epoxying the trim into place, I was leaning more towards the caulk. I think the 4 oz cloth will be good under the trim to help seal out water. I just got back from the hardware store but they only had a package of 3M that looked real thick and it didn't say what the weight was. I found this website.

http://www.uscomposites.com/cloth.html

Would this 4 oz cloth work well?

Should I put the first coat of epoxy on, then lay the tape down, then put the 2nd coat down, or how should I do that?

If your covering with trim, fiberglass tape will probably be easier for you to use. I mentioned bias cut strips of cloth if the seam was going to show. I would buy some 6 oz. tape which is the thinnest I have seen. Roll out the amount your going to use and with a helper stretch the tape by pulling on it gently. This will help the edges lay flat.

A method I have used that works good is pre-wet the surface with a thin coat of epoxy. Let it tack up so your finger sticks to it. Carefully roll out the re-rolled pre stretched tape onto this sticky surface, you will be able to move it around and pull it back off to get it straight, so don't rush. The tape will stay put exactly where you put it, and you can not wet it out with a roller, brush or squeegee. This is much easier for a first timer IMO.

Another method is to re-roll the prestretched tape and immerse it in a cup of epoxy till it's saturated. Pull it out when it goes clear, and let it drain back into the cup for a couple minutes. You should mask off all areas you don't want drips of epoxy to deal with later. You can now roll out the pre wetted tape on the seam. It will stay in place once you squeegee the first foot. This method is a little faster, but a little trickier getting started on the surface.

There are lots of methods/tricks on applying cloth or tape over wood. The best advice I can give is "WORK CLEAN" mask everything around the work area, wipe up spills, runs, etc. Remember one thing with epoxy: "Less is More" Just wet the cloth/tape till its saturated, squeegee it till its flat against the surface, and dull looking, not sloppy wet and shiny. It's best to build multiple thin layers, not one heavy thick one. I actually soak up excess epoxy with a dry roller and paper towels.

Larry C

[Larry C]

Also, try to work the epoxy with the squege only as much as needed, overworking can cause air bubles. I've read about using a short bristle brush instead of a squege on clear finishes, but don't remember enough to relay here.

The brush method was popularized by a well know boat builder north of the border. However, I don't like the method even though I have use it to wet out entire canoes and kayaks several times.

The theory was it helped reduce air bubbles, which it does for epoxies that create a lot of air bubbles. However, since I switched to using Raka epoxy, I no longer get any air bubbles.. EVER!! I apply with a mohair roller not the foam type rollers. Raka is self leveling, and air bubbles just disappear. When I squeegee, I don't discard what's been squeegeed off, I just re-apply it to a dry cloth area.

The other reason he used this method is he did not do a seal coat of epoxy, he wetted cloth out directly onto dry bare wood. I no longer do this, I apply a seal coat first which allows me to use less epoxy (less weight) and assures no starved areas of the cloth.

This is what I do.....the best method is the one that works for you!

Larry C

[DudKC]

Guys -

Thanks for all the great info in this thread. I do have to admit it has all left me a little bewildered as to what to actually do at this point. Yesterday I realized that if I make our deadline of Labor Day to be campable, I won't have a galley, which is fine as long as I have the exterior done right.

So I am using the 105/207 from West Systems, and am considering fiberglassing on certain areas, they are:

1) Seams where we butted the 1/2" Oak plywood together on the outer walls.
2) Top portion of sandwich walls (1/4" plywood inner, 1 x framing, 1/2" plywood outer).
3) Roof-to-wall joint, once I get the 1/4" plywood on the roof.

In this thread I've read to make sure to ease the 90 degree corners before we epoxy, fiberglass the 90 degree corners, the fiberglass won't help seal out water, fiberglass won't take to a 90 degree corner, and recommendations to use the wet and the dry method of fiberglassing. If I've misinterpreted any of the posts in this thread, please let me know, I am a noob as far as most of this goes so that is completely possible, and I want to make sure that this step of the build is done right.

If anyone can help simplify how to fiberglass the above 3 areas I would greatly appreciate it. If you think of other areas where fiberglass will help, or if don't think it's necessary to fiberglass them, or if the trouble of fiberglassing them won't be worth it for the benefits I would like to know that as well.

I truly appreciate all the people on this forum who take the time to help out with their knowledge, but this one is getting a little over my head at this point. As in I'm leaning towards just using epoxy and no fiberglass if the fiberglass isn't even going to help seal out water, which is what I kind of thought the point of fiberglass was anyway.

Thanks again for the help.

[Larry C]

Guys -


I'm leaning towards just using epoxy and no fiberglass if the fiberglass isn't even going to help seal out water, which is what I kind of thought the point of fiberglass was anyway.

Thanks again for the help.

I will just take this one:

The fiberglass will definitely help keep the water out because it will stabilize the seam. Expansion and contraction, as well as the twisting and bouncing that happen over the road can open up seams by cracking the epoxy joint. This is especially true with the epoxy you have chosen. It is one of the hardest epoxies available. It is not as flexible as some of the others.

The glass will add a lot of strength and stability to these seams. You have spent a lot of money on a high end Epoxy, adding a little FG tape won't cost much more.

Larry C

[DudKC]

Thanks, Larry. Would you say to fiberglass all three of those areas I mentioned in my previous post?

I hope I didn't sound frustrated in my post, because I'm not, I'm just a little information over-loaded right now, so I'm looking for some clarification, even though everyone has already spent probably too much of their time holding my hand through this.

Thanks again!

[madjack]

...trying to simplify...
1) fiberglass with epoxy will surely seal out water
2) epoxy absolutely does not like a hard 90 corner...it will crack at the edge if not rounded
3) even with the fiberglass cloth a 90* corner is very hard to do since the glass will not want to lay flat over the corner...once again, rounding the edges are called for
4) glassing all joints and seams will seal well(in not 90* corners) the rest can just be epoxy coated
5) even with epoxy or glass/epoxy, a UV resistant coating needs to be applied...either a marine urethane or marine urethane based paint....
...if still confused, ask specifically about what you are confused about and we will try our best to clear up the confusion...I know it can be a bit daunting...'cause I have been there myself....................
madjack
p.s. if you can, get some scraps of all of the above and do a little practice at laying up the glass and epoxy so you are not learning on the real deal and will have an idea of what is going to happen when you do the real deal...........mj

[Larry C]

Thanks, Larry. Would you say to fiberglass all three of those areas I mentioned in my previous post?

I hope I didn't sound frustrated in my post, because I'm not, I'm just a little information over-loaded right now, so I'm looking for some clarification, even though everyone has already spent probably too much of their time holding my hand through this.

Thanks again!

Please take a look at this tutorial: [/url]www.laughingloon.com/epoxy.html[url]

DudKC wrote:

1) Seams where we butted the 1/2" Oak plywood together on the outer walls.
2) Top portion of sandwich walls (1/4" plywood inner, 1 x framing, 1/2" plywood outer).
3) Roof-to-wall joint, once I get the 1/4" plywood on the roof.

I would do #1 with a bias cut piece of thin glass (easiest to hide)

I would do #3 with the FG tape (easiest to work with)

#2 will get thickened epoxy when you put on the roof skin, no glass need here. Use thickened epoxy as a glue.

[dh]

Yup, get some scraps and practice. Befor you know it you won't know how you lived without epoxy. Like I stated earlier, small "practice" pieces of FG material can usually be had just for the asking at fiberglass shops.

[DudKC]

Yup, get some scraps and practice. Befor you know it you won't know how you lived without epoxy. Like I stated earlier, small "practice" pieces of FG material can usually be had just for the asking at fiberglass shops.

I can definitely see how epoxy will come in handy in a lot of different uses, once I am familiar with it.

This video shows several ways to bond hardware, I bought the 4" open door hinge from Vintek, would this method be good to add strength to my door hinge?

Fastener Bonding

[madjack]

Dustin, bonding fasteners in the fashion shown in the video is certainly stronger than all get out, it is also PERMANENT...if that suits you, goforit.................
madjack
p.s. on any exterior fasteners, I always predrill and squirt some sealer into the screw hole before applying the screw to help seal it and to strengthen the wood...........mj

[dh]

For a less permanent instalation, the fastener can be 'contaminated' with oil so the epoxy won't stick to it.