Wood stain vs sun

[Sawyer]

I'm planning on putting oak trim around the bottom perimeter of my TD, and I would like to stain it a dark walnut color, then finish it with Spar Varithane. Problem is, I've been having trouble finding anything exterior rated that isn't a deck stain. I've been told that any normal interior stain would fade after a year or two in the sun, and I'd obviously like to avoid that.

What have you used, and what results have you found? Has anyone used interior rated Watco Danish Oil under a outdoor rated finish with decent results?

Thanks in advance!

[Rock]

Typically the most lightfast of interior furniture stains are water based aniline dye stains. These come as a powder and you mix them yourself. Still not meant for outdoor use so I'm not sure how they'll do.

Something that I'm playing with but have zero durability results for yet is tinting the Epoxy resin I'm using on the outside of my tear. I'm using a little bottle of dye I bought at Woodcraft. From Germany - don't remeber the name. Once again - it may fade in a month outside - I just don't know.

Finally - if you're thinking about using fabric dye (AKA Rit?) don't do it. A guy stained his kayak purple doing this and it faded to a gross pink in a year or so. And this was under epoxy AND a UV rated varnish.

Let us know if you find something that is rated for outdoors.

[dmckruit]

I would use Rustoleum or Minwax Gel Stain, then cover with a good oil based exterior polyurethane.

It will still probably fade in a year or two if left in the sun. Because you are using a clear coat/stain system this is just the nature of the beast. Paint would give the longest exterior durability.

[tonyj]

How about just starting with a darker wood? You might have to pay a little more, but you wouldn't have to worry about the stain fading/failing.

[Mark McD]

There are aniline dye stains that are uv stable and colorfast,however the same effects can be achieved with off the shelf box store products. As with all stains, the darker the color the the more it will fade. One option would be to add colorant to your topcoat and make a tinted varnish . This would help with the uv rays as well as let you darken the wood with each coat, although too many coats will make the wood look "muddy' and obscure the grain a bit. Just tint the topcoat with a compatable stain, i.e. made from the same base,(water or oil).

[wannabefree]

There are dyes and stains, and then there are dyes and stains mixed together. Stains are pigments mixed with a binder, like linseed oil, and dryers to make the binder harden. Dyes usually have little UV resistance, while stains are better because the pigment is more stable.

Stains, being generally oil based, sometimes interfere with the adhesion of the topcoat. So if you use a stain it is advised to check it for compatibility with the topcoat. This can be time consuming, but anymore I consider it necessary as it is unpleasant to watch the topcoat peel off the wood after doing all that work.

My solution is to use wood that comes in colors. There is a tremendous variety of color in natural wood, and if used as an accent for a more plain wood the cost is not prohibitive.



My walls are baltic birch (cheap) trimmed with mahogany, maple, and purpleheart. Mahogany at $5 bdft, maple at $3 bdft, and purpleheart at $6 bdft are all well within my budget, especially in the quantities used here.

Wood, too, will either darken or lighten with age. That is something I can live with; it's a natural process and goes well with me darkening with age.

[doug hodder]

I've used the water based aniline dyes on both boats and tears. If you start with a darker wood, in my case mahogany, it works well. On my boat, I dyed up mahogany in a dark walnut dye on the covering boards with a colonial red deck field. Worked great...same on my tears. colonial red on a mahogany. I did cover them all with about 6 coats of UV resistant epoxy and then top coated it with 2 of auto clear. The water based dyes are more UV resistant than the alcohol or oil based ones. If you want to use the dye as a tint in a finish...my experience is that it will tend to hide a lot of the details in the wood grain. Think about it....you are putting a tinted covering on top of a wood. In a way, it's sort of like a thin paint. I don't know what you want, but I was looking for that vintage Chris Craft boat deck look on a tear. A finish that looks really deep.

They say the dyes aren't exterior approved. Well, they might not be as resistant if you leave it out in the sun 24-7 all it's life, but I do cover my stuff up when not being used, so it's held up well for me. The boat is 5 years old, the woody tear I still have is 4 and they still look great. Haven't had to do any finish touch up on either. Thing is...you gotta make sure you get them covered with UV protectant very well. I think it will be more difficult if you are trying to do a very dark color over a very light wood however. Oil based dyes/stains aren't recommended if they are going to be top coated with an epoxy system. I talked with the tech staff at West and they indicated that I had taken the right approach on what I was wanting to do. Others opinions may vary.

The following pic is of the same material, but with the aniline dye on it, really makes the dark brown look like a walnut, the more you put on...the darker it gets, easy to doctor up colors using the dyes....Doug

[Sawyer]

How about just starting with a darker wood? You might have to pay a little more, but you wouldn't have to worry about the stain fading/failing.

Would have loved to use a darker wood like Mahogany, Walnut, or preferably Teak, but I'm on a tight budget and had about 8 board feet of clear Red Oak leftover from another project, so Oak it is.

Stains, being generally oil based, sometimes interfere with the adhesion of the topcoat. So if you use a stain it is advised to check it for compatibility with the topcoat.

This is why I'd really like to use Watco... I've used it in conjunction with Varithane many times with great results, I'm just not sure how well the Watco will hold up over time outside.

The following pic is of the same material, but with the aniline dye on it, really makes the dark brown look like a walnut, the more you put on...the darker it gets, easy to doctor up colors using the dyes....Doug

Great looking Boat!!! I'm really looking for that same Walnut color around the edge... I'll definitely look into aniline dyes, thanks everyone for the info and suggestions!

[doug hodder]

Sawyer...storage methods are your best friend for long term care...Just my opinion. Doug

[Sawyer]

Sawyer...storage methods are your best friend for long term care...Just my opinion. Doug

Doug, I absolutely agree. I don't have a garage or carport, so I built my TD in my backyard, where it stayed until winter, when I was able to trade a nice bottle of whiskey for some space in a friends garage, but that won't be an option after this spring, as she's moving... So, back to the drawing board.

[kennyrayandersen]

I second the dark wood if you got it, but I've been on a tight budget too , so I'm feeling ya on that one. Next best thing like has been said is to use a LOT of UV protection and if you can find a garage, you could always make a cover for it.

[Mark McD]

The cover can do as much damage as leaving it out in the elements. The best cover would be an rv or car type cover that breathes. A plastic tarp thrown over the top will sweat and cause condensation induced finish problems.


Doug,
SWEEEET boat. Not surprising after seein pics of your other toys. Is that a Glen-L design?

[kennyrayandersen]

The cover can do as much damage as leaving it out in the elements. The best cover would be an rv or car type cover that breathes. A plastic tarp thrown over the top will sweat and cause condensation induced finish problems.?

But of course! -- you can order the material generally from any company that does custom covers.

[doug hodder]

Guess I should have clarified that....when I say cover...it isn't a tarp, it's a roof, you're right a tarp can tear one up, unless you are using it as a roof.
Yup...it's the Glen-L Malahini....fun project! Doug

[Miriam C.]

http://www.mar-k.com/final_summary.html
I posted this elsewhere but you might find it useful. It's and easy read. Good luck!