A question for the tongue meisters

[purplepickup]

I'd like an opinion from someone that has had some experience building trailer frames.

I'm putting a tongue on my frame and thought I'd ask about the design before I weld it on. In the picture below you can see the coupler that I clamped some 2X4's into so that I could mock up how the tongue would fit. It will actually be welded under the frame but for mockup purposes I left it on top. I'm cutting the straight tongue off that's on there now. The material I'm using is 2 X 3X 3/16 angle and my thought is to make a v-cut in the top at the red marks (which are at the front frame rail) and bend the angle, at that point, straight back and weld it to the second crossmember or bend it less and weld it to the side rails. I'm leaning towards the second option because the side rails are stronger than the cross member and the contact area (and welds) would be longer. It will be welded to the front of the frame too. The blue marks indicate where I'm planning on cutting the angle (73"). I just didn't want to cut the 2X4's.

The front of my trailer will curve out 12" forward of the front frame rail so the ball of the coupler would be 55" from the frame and 43" from the most forward point of the front of the trailer. I feel this is enough since my 6X12 utility trailer is 40" to the coupler and my 24' car hauler is 45" and I've never had any problems with them.

Sorry for the long winded post. Any opinions?

[SteveH]

George,

My only thought is the angle may not be rigid enough.

I originally did my tongue like yours out of 2 X 2 X 1/4 angle and it was too flexy and my trailer is smaller/lighter than yours will be.

Then I welded a 2 X 1/4 strap to the bottom of the angles, forming a channel, and it is very good now.

[Kevin A]

I'd like an opinion from someone that has had some experience building trailer frames.

I'm putting a tongue on my frame and thought I'd ask about the design before I weld it on. In the picture below you can see the coupler that I clamped some 2X4's into so that I could mock up how the tongue would fit. It will actually be welded under the frame but for mockup purposes I left it on top. I'm cutting the straight tongue off that's on there now. The material I'm using is 2 X 3X 3/16 angle and my thought is to make a v-cut in the top at the red marks (which are at the front frame rail) and bend the angle, at that point, straight back and weld it to the second crossmember or bend it less and weld it to the side rails. I'm leaning towards the second option because the side rails are stronger than the cross member and the contact area (and welds) would be longer. It will be welded to the front of the frame too. The blue marks indicate where I'm planning on cutting the angle (73"). I just didn't want to cut the 2X4's.

The front of my trailer will curve out 12" forward of the front frame rail so the ball of the coupler would be 55" from the frame and 43" from the most forward point of the front of the trailer. I feel this is enough since my 6X12 utility trailer is 40" to the coupler and my 24' car hauler is 45" and I've never had any problems with them.

Sorry for the long winded post. Any opinions?

George,

I think you're on the right track with the tongue design, I'm not sure I would use angle in that area though. Channel or square/rectangle tubing seems like it would provide more strength in the tongue area. Here's a photo of how we built the tongue on my new frame.

[mikeschn]

Ask Dave N or even Sumner about tongues... Stronger is always better...

So yes, I would use 2x2x3/16 tubing, not angle.

Mike...

[angib]

Sorry for the long winded post. Any opinions?

I'd go with option 3 - don't cut or bend the angles at all and weld them to the side rails where they meet.

I've calculated the tongue factor for your two 2"x3"x3/16" angles (3" leg vertical, yeah?), using the 55" measurment you gave, a 1500lb trailer weight and 150lb tongue weight and the answer is 4.7 daves - so about the same as Dave N's 2"x2"x1/8" square tube tongue (5.1 daves) that collapsed in Baja. See my tongue strength page for more details.

So I'll repeat what others have said - that doesn't sound like a very strong tongue.

Andrew

[purplepickup]

I’m sure you guys are right about using square tubing. I’d rather be safe than sorry but still not overbuild so I value your opinions. My thoughts when I decided to use the angle were (1) I’ve already got it on my steel rack, and (2) my 6 X 12 utility trailer has a 2 x 3 x 3/16 tongue like that and the trailer rating is 2900 lbs GVWR. I was going to address the twist factor by connecting the angles, midway, with another piece of angle, making an “A” shape. That would give me a spot to mount a box.

I used Andrew’s tongue strength spread sheet and came up with a rating of 2.0 “Daves” for the square tubing and 3.2 “Daves” for the angle. The tubing comes out ahead but the angle falls into Andrew’s safe range, if I understand his terms correctly. 5.1 “Daves” is where Dave Nathanson’s tongue broke on washboard roads. Andrew considers a value of lower than 5.1 safe for normal driving. He even extends that safe range up to 10 Daves but advises caution and good judgment.

I know Sumner’s tongue broke too but he had a drop tongue design made from a single piece of 2 X 2 X .125W tube and a lot heavier trailer (over 1500 lbs I think). It broke at an unsupported point that had a lot of stress.

I don’t want to sound like I’m arguing with your opinions. I’m just letting you know what my thoughts were when I decided to use the 2x3 angle.

Thanks for the help.

[SteveH]

George,

Don't blame you. I'd use it too if I had it in stock already.

What I would do is add a piece of 2" X 3/16" strap to the bottom of it, like I did on mine, making it a 2 X 3 X 3/16" channel. You won't believe how much it strengthened the tongue on my teardrop.

It won't cost very much, it won't add that much weight, but it will add a lot of strength.

[mikeschn]

Hey purplepickup...

When I pass out advice, I try to pass out the safest advice possible... hence I err on the side of caution...

But it sounds like you have researched it pretty well, and if you don't mind 3.2 "Daves" then I would go for it. If you find there is too much flex once you start using it, you can always do what Steve H suggested, and turn the angle into channel.

Mike...

[purplepickup]

I figured my Daves based on Andrew's defaults of 1100 lbs and 120 # tongue wt. I'm pretty sure I'll be in that range. An engineer here at work has suggested a couple of ways to strengthen the angle tongue by tying the cross piece back to the front frame rail to have 4 points of anchor to the frame similar to what SteveH suggested asianflava do with his tongue box base. But I'll probably just pop for the square tubing. It is stronger and not that much heavier.

Thanks again.

[angib]

But I'll probably just pop for the square tubing. It is stronger and not that much heavier..

Damn, I'm kinda disappointed - I hoped you might be the person to prove that Dave's tongue broke from driving washboard roads, not from normal road use!

Andrew