Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers

I stumbled upon this while researching.

A nice, short, informative article on Baltic Birch.

http://www.woodworkingseminars.com/wp-content/s7334.pdf

Baltic Birch is good stuff but it's not the friggin' Holy Grail.. so, be a man and get off your knees. there's a whole world of high quality plywoods out there to discover..

I had a serious problem with baltic birch. It delaminated in the rain. And that was with CPES and a good Oil based paint on top of it.

Mike...

mikeschn wrote:I had a serious problem with baltic birch. It delaminated in the rain. And that was with CPES and a good Oil based paint on top of it.

Mike...

That's unfortunate.
Sounds like you may have had interior grade BB.
The exterior BB I've used has a dark glue between veneers.
I've tried to turn BB bowls on the lathe and gave up since I was always sharpening my gouges, tuff stuff.
Danny

mikeschn wrote:I had a serious problem with baltic birch. It delaminated in the rain. And that was with CPES and a good Oil based paint on top of it.

Mike...

So, Would you say that using BB for the Gen Ben plans is now in question?
I just bought a couple of sheets for the floor and 1 sheet for the cabinets as recommended. Should I switch to an exterior marine grade?

BillZ wrote:

mikeschn wrote:I had a serious problem with baltic birch. It delaminated in the rain. And that was with CPES and a good Oil based paint on top of it.

Mike...

So, Would you say that using BB for the Gen Ben plans is now in question?
I just bought a couple of sheets for the floor and 1 sheet for the cabinets as recommended. Should I switch to an exterior marine grade?

Greetings from Finland. If you are using Finnish Plywood for exterior I would suggest you to use Marine Grade. An interior ply will not hold up on the exterior and will delaminate in short time.

Sail Boats and such are built here using Marine Grade and hold up very well.

Remember Baltic Birch is not necessarily the same as Finnish Birch. Also here Internationally know furniture as well as dishes are also made from Finnish Birch. Quality is the key.

Baltic Birch is mainly made by Russian Manufacturers as well as some in Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia. Thus the name Baltic Birch.

There is a huge difference in quality of the Ply.


Here is an English Website about the different ply that is made here and its uses.

http://www.wisaplywood.com/upm/internet ... _2ndnf=ENG\Navigation\30. Plywood and veneer\plywood&nav_2ndnfa=o

Also here is the contact info in the USA if anyone is interested in these products.

UPM-Kymmene, Inc.
999 Oakmont Plaza Drive
Suite 200
Westmont, Illinois 60559
USA
Tel. +1 630 850 4992
Fax +1 630 850 3512
Cell +1 630 390 4288

For the folks in Minnesota contact Blandon Paper Company in Grand Rapids for the products I mention here.


This is what the floor of our tear is built with:

http://www.wisaplywood.com/upm/internet ... =wisatruck

Many of these products are used throughout Scandinavia & Europe in the Full Size caravans and motorhomes.

This contains an "Phenolic moisture barrier" so no other tars or goops are needed.

I've been in the commercial millwork/cabinet making trade for 25+ years, most of it in the ultra high end where money is not a consideration and about the only thing I've used BB for is drawer boxes.. what we do use it for though is jigs and such for the shop. it's great for that but as far as fine ply panels go, there's tons of stuff out there that is waaay better than BB..

Classic Finn is correct too, not all BB is the same. the Scandinavian stuff is better that the Russian stuff. it's like that with all ply panels though, it's a manufactured material and it's the people putting it together that determines quality, not what type of wood it's made from..

afreegreek wrote:I've been in the commercial millwork/cabinet making trade for 25+ years, most of it in the ultra high end where money is not a consideration and about the only thing I've used BB for is drawer boxes.. what we do use it for though is jigs and such for the shop. it's great for that but as far as fine ply panels go, there's tons of stuff out there that is waaay better than BB..

Classic Finn is correct too, not all BB is the same. the Scandinavian stuff is better that the Russian stuff. it's like that with all ply panels though, it's a manufactured material and it's the people putting it together that determines quality, not what type of wood it's made from..

What type of ply would you recommend for the outside walls of a teardrop.

Thanks

KenC wrote:

afreegreek wrote:I've been in the commercial millwork/cabinet making trade for 25+ years, most of it in the ultra high end where money is not a consideration and about the only thing I've used BB for is drawer boxes.. what we do use it for though is jigs and such for the shop. it's great for that but as far as fine ply panels go, there's tons of stuff out there that is waaay better than BB..

Classic Finn is correct too, not all BB is the same. the Scandinavian stuff is better that the Russian stuff. it's like that with all ply panels though, it's a manufactured material and it's the people putting it together that determines quality, not what type of wood it's made from..

What type of ply would you recommend for the outside walls of a teardrop.

Thanks

Hello Ken

I used 20mm Exterior Marine Ply on our tear. Now this is only my idea on this. It does not have to be an expensive ply however. But it has worked real nicely for my specific build.

Here in Finland as well as Scandinvavia everything is costly to boot as well as building or making anything out of wood in this case so I decided that why go cheap.

I imported the door frames, Windows, Handles, And fenders that cost an arm n leg by the time they got to my door step. I wanted the Classic look with real parts

So my mind told me that why should I go and get cheap ply to save a Dollar or Euro on the build. Ok thats one reason Ive exceeded living on teardrop time also. Do I have regrets in going with top grade parts. Noo.

Remember a tree is a tree no matter where its grown. Its the process in making the final product such as in this case "Birch Ply".

Also if your going to cover the ply anyways with a good sealer in most cases it wont matter that much which grade of the marine ply to use.
Im a Marine Ply addict so thats just me and my opinion.

Good Luck on your build.

KenC wrote:

afreegreek wrote:I've been in the commercial millwork/cabinet making trade for 25+ years, most of it in the ultra high end where money is not a consideration and about the only thing I've used BB for is drawer boxes.. what we do use it for though is jigs and such for the shop. it's great for that but as far as fine ply panels go, there's tons of stuff out there that is waaay better than BB..

Classic Finn is correct too, not all BB is the same. the Scandinavian stuff is better that the Russian stuff. it's like that with all ply panels though, it's a manufactured material and it's the people putting it together that determines quality, not what type of wood it's made from..

What type of ply would you recommend for the outside walls of a teardrop.

Thanks

I like the Meranti marine grade from this supplier..

http://www.westwindhardwood.com/price_marine_ply.php

it's got all the good things BB has but it's much lighter and has the best glue and a #1 glue line. it's true that exterior grade uses the same glue as marine in many cases but the quality of the glue line in marine is much better. exterior has the minimum amount of glue and sometimes it's not good enough for a complete bond and there can be areas that are not properly bonded from the get go.. marine grade ply is the best of the best all around. from the quality of the veneer to the glue, to how much glue and the assembly.. it's meant to withstand forces and loads other ply products are not.

example..

static load - a wall,
live load - a floor,
dynamic load - a boat hull..

sure it cost more but it's not much considering the big picture. include all the materials and labour a finished TD involves and a few hundred bucks soon becomes minimal..

personally, I don't see spending hundreds on CPES and other crap in an attempt to protect cheap ply as a good investment.

afreegreek wrote:

KenC wrote:

afreegreek wrote:I've been in the commercial millwork/cabinet making trade for 25+ years, most of it in the ultra high end where money is not a consideration and about the only thing I've used BB for is drawer boxes.. what we do use it for though is jigs and such for the shop. it's great for that but as far as fine ply panels go, there's tons of stuff out there that is waaay better than BB..

Classic Finn is correct too, not all BB is the same. the Scandinavian stuff is better that the Russian stuff. it's like that with all ply panels though, it's a manufactured material and it's the people putting it together that determines quality, not what type of wood it's made from..

What type of ply would you recommend for the outside walls of a teardrop.

Thanks

I like the Meranti marine grade from this supplier..

http://www.westwindhardwood.com/price_marine_ply.php

it's got all the good things BB has but it's much lighter and has the best glue and a #1 glue line. it's true that exterior grade uses the same glue as marine in many cases but the quality of the glue line in marine is much better. exterior has the minimum amount of glue and sometimes it's not good enough for a complete bond and there can be areas that are not properly bonded from the get go.. marine grade ply is the best of the best all around. from the quality of the veneer to the glue, to how much glue and the assembly.. it's meant to withstand forces and loads other ply products are not.

example..

static load - a wall,
live load - a floor,
dynamic load - a boat hull..

sure it cost more but it's not much considering the big picture. include all the materials and labour a finished TD involves and a few hundred bucks soon becomes minimal..

personally, I don't see spending hundreds on CPES and other crap in an attempt to protect cheap ply as a good investment.

If you don't need to use CPES for this ply, how would you cover it? Would a simple primer and paint do?

BillZ wrote:

afreegreek wrote:

KenC wrote:

afreegreek wrote:I've been in the commercial millwork/cabinet making trade for 25+ years, most of it in the ultra high end where money is not a consideration and about the only thing I've used BB for is drawer boxes.. what we do use it for though is jigs and such for the shop. it's great for that but as far as fine ply panels go, there's tons of stuff out there that is waaay better than BB..

Classic Finn is correct too, not all BB is the same. the Scandinavian stuff is better that the Russian stuff. it's like that with all ply panels though, it's a manufactured material and it's the people putting it together that determines quality, not what type of wood it's made from..

What type of ply would you recommend for the outside walls of a teardrop.

Thanks

I like the Meranti marine grade from this supplier..

http://www.westwindhardwood.com/price_marine_ply.php

it's got all the good things BB has but it's much lighter and has the best glue and a #1 glue line. it's true that exterior grade uses the same glue as marine in many cases but the quality of the glue line in marine is much better. exterior has the minimum amount of glue and sometimes it's not good enough for a complete bond and there can be areas that are not properly bonded from the get go.. marine grade ply is the best of the best all around. from the quality of the veneer to the glue, to how much glue and the assembly.. it's meant to withstand forces and loads other ply products are not.

example..

static load - a wall,
live load - a floor,
dynamic load - a boat hull..

sure it cost more but it's not much considering the big picture. include all the materials and labour a finished TD involves and a few hundred bucks soon becomes minimal..

personally, I don't see spending hundreds on CPES and other crap in an attempt to protect cheap ply as a good investment.

If you don't need to use CPES for this ply, how would you cover it? Would a simple primer and paint do?

yup, exterior grade paint/primer will do just fine. so will Spar Urethane. this ply has rotary cut AA face veneers so you could do the woody look if you want. if it is, let the supplier know so he can send you a clean sheet. Meranti is soft mahogany and has very open pore grain. because of that and the fact they really lay the glue on thick, sometimes it wicks through the pores and shows tiny black dots on the surface.