Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers

I have used 1/2" plywood for the floor on my trailer.
I, first, coated the underside with several coats of CPES.
I, then, coated the underside with several coats of Raka epoxy.

Since the underside of the trailer will not be in direct sunlight, I figured that I would not need to provide uv protection.

Anyone have comments? suggestions? experiences?


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I did also use 2 coats of CPES and then fiberglass cloth with 2 coats of resin and then I also used the black asphalt emulsion. I work for the department of redundancy department.

terryjones1 wrote:I have used 1/2" plywood for the floor on my trailer.
I, first, coated the underside with several coats of CPES.
I, then, coated the underside with several coats of Raka epoxy.

Since the underside of the trailer will not be in direct sunlight, I figured that I would not need to provide uv protection.

Anyone have comments? suggestions? experiences?


.

epoxy that is not exposed to UV does not need to be protected.. epoxy that is only needs it if it's to be used on a bright finish as the only real damage done is cosmetic, unless you're talking extreme lengths of time.. as in decades..

$10 worth of boiled linseed oil will do a better job of protecting your floor than the several hundred dollars worth of epoxy.. especially if you're going to finish the inside with vinyl or other similar floor covering that does not breathe

epoxy is an adhesive and a laminating resin for adding fibre reenforcement.. on it's own as a water proof coating for wood it's extremely expensive and has more negatives than positives.. a 4 out of 10 at best..

CPES used to seal new wood is about the biggest waste of money there is.. I have no idea why people on this site are so in love with the stuff.. it's 'thinned down' epoxy for the price of pure epoxy.. if you really want thinned down epoxy, thin it yourself with isopropyl alcohol and spend the difference on a nice bottle of Scotch or two..

I use Smith's CPES and according to their website, this is how they describe their product.....

"Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealerâ„¢ (CPESâ„¢) consists of a tough, flexible resin system in a solvent blend which dissolves the sap, oil and moisture found in wood. The resin system is derived from natural wood resin and develops a chemical adhesive bond to the wood fibers themselves."

That does not sound like pure epoxy to me???? It is flexible, which epoxy is not, it is made with natural wood resin, which epoxy is not....

Oldragbaggers wrote:I use Smith's CPES and according to their website, this is how they describe their product.....

"Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealerâ„¢ (CPESâ„¢) consists of a tough, flexible resin system in a solvent blend which dissolves the sap, oil and moisture found in wood. The resin system is derived from natural wood resin and develops a chemical adhesive bond to the wood fibers themselves."

That does not sound like pure epoxy to me???? It is flexible, which epoxy is not, it is made with natural wood resin, which epoxy is not....

1) CPES is epoxy.. it also contains a number of solvents and other additives.. it's primary purpose is to penetrate rotten wood.. the solvents, thinners and other additives are included to do a number of things.. primarily, to reduce it's viscosity and allow it to penetrate and to prolong it's transition from liquid to solid.. which allows deeper penetration and the release of solvents/thinners before it reaches a gel state and traps those solvents/thinners in the resin.

2) the word "epoxy" is like the word "paint".. it is a generalization as there are literally hundreds of variations of epoxy.. some are flexible and some are not.. some contain significant portions of cellulose and some have none..

from wiki..

"These commodity epoxy manufacturers mentioned above typically do not sell epoxy resins in a form usable to smaller end users, so there is another group of companies that purchase epoxy raw materials from the major producers and then compounds (blends, modifies, or otherwise customizes) epoxy systems from these raw materials. These companies are known as "formulators". The majority of the epoxy systems sold are produced by these formulators and they comprise over 60% of the dollar value of the epoxy market. There are hundreds of ways that these formulators can modify epoxies—by adding mineral fillers (talc, silica, alumina, etc.), by adding flexibilizers, viscosity reducers, colorants, thickeners, accelerators, adhesion promoters, etc.. These modifications are made to reduce costs, to improve performance, and to improve processing convenience. As a result a typical formulator sells dozens or even thousands of formulations—each tailored to the requirements of a particular application or market."


3) wood is a composite material.. it's main component is cellulose, the fibres the cells are made from.. and lignin, the glue that binds the cells together.. the resins, oils, and waxes in wood are not part of it structural properties, they are there primarily to prevent rot and decay and to prevent insects and microbes from making a meal out of it..

4) I didn't say CPES was pure epoxy.. the quote was.." it's 'thinned down' epoxy for the price of pure epoxy.." which it is..

West Systems, System Three, Raka, Industrial Formulators and similar brands of epoxy do not have added thinners, they are resin and hardener only.. it's up to you to add thinners or other additives yourself..

Here is a good site re thinning epoxies. Note the letter from "Rot Doctor's" attorney! Go to the home page and learn more.

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/penetrating4u.html

Cheers,

Gus

afreegreek wrote:

Oldragbaggers wrote:I use Smith's CPES and according to their website, this is how they describe their product.....

"Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealerâ„¢ (CPESâ„¢) consists of a tough, flexible resin system in a solvent blend which dissolves the sap, oil and moisture found in wood. The resin system is derived from natural wood resin and develops a chemical adhesive bond to the wood fibers themselves."

That does not sound like pure epoxy to me???? It is flexible, which epoxy is not, it is made with natural wood resin, which epoxy is not....

1) CPES is epoxy.. it also contains a number of solvents and other additives.. it's primary purpose is to penetrate rotten wood.. the solvents, thinners and other additives are included to do a number of things.. primarily, to reduce it's viscosity and allow it to penetrate and to prolong it's transition from liquid to solid.. which allows deeper penetration and the release of solvents/thinners before it reaches a gel state and traps those solvents/thinners in the resin.

2) the word "epoxy" is like the word "paint".. it is a generalization as there are literally hundreds of variations of epoxy.. some are flexible and some are not.. some contain significant portions of cellulose and some have none..

from wiki..

"These commodity epoxy manufacturers mentioned above typically do not sell epoxy resins in a form usable to smaller end users, so there is another group of companies that purchase epoxy raw materials from the major producers and then compounds (blends, modifies, or otherwise customizes) epoxy systems from these raw materials. These companies are known as "formulators". The majority of the epoxy systems sold are produced by these formulators and they comprise over 60% of the dollar value of the epoxy market. There are hundreds of ways that these formulators can modify epoxies—by adding mineral fillers (talc, silica, alumina, etc.), by adding flexibilizers, viscosity reducers, colorants, thickeners, accelerators, adhesion promoters, etc.. These modifications are made to reduce costs, to improve performance, and to improve processing convenience. As a result a typical formulator sells dozens or even thousands of formulations—each tailored to the requirements of a particular application or market."


3) wood is a composite material.. it's main component is cellulose, the fibres the cells are made from.. and lignin, the glue that binds the cells together.. the resins, oils, and waxes in wood are not part of it structural properties, they are there primarily to prevent rot and decay and to prevent insects and microbes from making a meal out of it..

4) I didn't say CPES was pure epoxy.. the quote was.." it's 'thinned down' epoxy for the price of pure epoxy.." which it is..

West Systems, System Three, Raka, Industrial Formulators and similar brands of epoxy do not have added thinners, they are resin and hardener only.. it's up to you to add thinners or other additives yourself..

+1

Here is a good site re thinning epoxies. Note the letter from "Rot Doctor's" attorney! Go to the home page and learn more.

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/penetrating4u.html

Cheers,

Gus

Great reading!

Thank you.

Rob

eamarquardt wrote:Here is a good site re thinning epoxies. Note the letter from "Rot Doctor's" attorney! Go to the home page and learn more.

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/penetrating4u.html

Cheers,

Gus

good find Gus.. love this quote "Our competitor's product (we will call it "ABCD") is a penetrating epoxy with almost a cult-like status."

I've been in the marine/boatbuilding trade for a couple of decades now and I've seen cans of CPES exactly zero times..

not to say CPES not a good product or it doesn't do what they claim, it's just that it's the equivalent of buying nail polish remover instead of acetone.. they're the same thing except for the price..

Here's some more interesting reading from the highly respected Wests System.

http://www.epoxyworks.com/14/ThinningEpoxy.html

3) Water resistance of a piece of wood is not enhanced by deep penetration. Wrapping wood in plastic makes a pretty good waterproof seal without any penetration at all. Likewise, an epoxy coating on the surface is more water-resistant than a thinned epoxy coating that has penetrated deeply into the wood because, in most instances, the epoxy thinned with solvent is porous.

If you want to know the ingredients of the product you wish to use, check the MSDS, it lists all ingredients, I believe it's listed with the greatest concentration shown first, with lower concentrations in descending order.
IMO/ you should always read the MSDS before purchasing a product to be sure it won't cause you possible harm, and to to know if your actually getting what you think you are.

Here's the MSDS for couple of popular products used by members:

CPES:

http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/msdspdf/CPES_WARM_PART_A&B.pdf

Wests System 105 Resin W/ 207 Hardener:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/MSDS/MSDS105.pdf
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/MSDS/MSDS207.pdf


Raka 127 Resin w/ 350 Hardener:


http://www.raka.com/raka%20127%20900%20tabletop%20superfast.html
[url]http://www.raka.com/epoxy%20hardener350.html[url][/url]

I just love it when a good "myth" is laid to rest!!!

I'd go swimming now but I just ate and have to wait a half hour.

Cheers,

Gus

afreegreek wrote: it's just that it's the equivalent of buying nail polish remover instead of acetone.. they're the same thing except for the price..

I believe nail polish remover has a bit of mineral oil in it which, of course, accounts for the dramatically increased value/price.

Cheers,

Gus

eamarquardt wrote:I just love it when a good "myth" is laid to rest!!!

I'd go swimming now but I just ate and have to wait a half hour.

Cheers,

Gus

What do you mean, 1/2 hour?? I was assured many years ago, it had to be at least 1 hour!

terryjones1 wrote:I have used 1/2" plywood for the floor on my trailer.
I, first, coated the underside with several coats of CPES.
I, then, coated the underside with several coats of Raka epoxy.

Since the underside of the trailer will not be in direct sunlight, I figured that I would not need to provide uv protection.

Anyone have comments? suggestions? experiences?


.

I would like input on whether I need to provide UV protection for the exterior underside of the trailer, which is epoxy coated plywood.

In general, is there reflection of the sun's UV rays to this area?


.

Larry C wrote:Here's some more interesting reading from the highly respected Wests System.

http://www.epoxyworks.com/14/ThinningEpoxy.html

3) Water resistance of a piece of wood is not enhanced by deep penetration. Wrapping wood in plastic makes a pretty good waterproof seal without any penetration at all. Likewise, an epoxy coating on the surface is more water-resistant than a thinned epoxy coating that has penetrated deeply into the wood because, in most instances, the epoxy thinned with solvent is porous.

If you want to know the ingredients of the product you wish to use, check the MSDS, it lists all ingredients, I believe it's listed with the greatest concentration shown first, with lower concentrations in descending order.
IMO/ you should always read the MSDS before purchasing a product to be sure it won't cause you possible harm, and to to know if your actually getting what you think you are.

Here's the MSDS for couple of popular products used by members:

CPES:

http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/msdspdf/CPES_WARM_PART_A&B.pdf

Wests System 105 Resin W/ 207 Hardener:

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/MSDS/MSDS105.pdf
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/assets/MSDS/MSDS207.pdf


Raka 127 Resin w/ 350 Hardener:


http://www.raka.com/raka%20127%20900%20tabletop%20superfast.html
[url]http://www.raka.com/epoxy%20hardener350.html[url][/url]

reading the manufacturer's MSDS is always a good idea but, it's not always 100% of the information.. usually they only list constituents that are toxic or flammable or deemed to be potentially hazardous or reactive in some way.. many times all of the constituents are not included on the MSDS.. it's about safe use and handling for the user and for helping medical personnel know what you've been exposed to.. in some industries MSDS are also given to the local fire department along with quantities stored and their location in the facility..

it's correct that the list goes from most to least but does not always give an indication of true proportion... #1 may be say 75% and #2 may be parts per million.. most MSDS that I've seen give you no clue..

here's a link on understanding what information is included and how to understand it...

http://www.nmsu.edu/safety/programs/che ... S-info.htm