Headliner & cloth? Warning! Long, blathering description

[noseoil]

I'm trying to keep thinking ahead on the build, and I have a question about the headliner. I'll glue up 1/8" Baltic birch for the headliner panel. It's only about 118" long and 59" wide, so 2 sheets will be enough to go from the inside galley hatch spar, to the front at the bottom edge where it meets the deck. There are a couple of things to consider, so again, your input & thoughts are valued.

I'm thinking the best product is a foam-backed automotive type of of cloth material. There are plenty of colors to choose from, so I should be able to get what I need. For the organic "earth mother" look I could just use plain burlap or gunny sacks. For the slick aircraft headliner look I could use raw silk (that stuff was a real PITA to install, white gloves, hats & all). Those are the two extremes, but anything else I've overlooked beside the automotive type of stuff? I figure the foam backing will help with sound & heat, plus give a nice finished look when it's in place. I like the idea of a softer ceiling with the "hard" look of the wood walls.

The vent opening will have to be cut once the headliner is in place. Normally I would just use a router with a flush-cut bit and cut the opening once the headliner is glued & installed. The cloth prevents this, due to the possibility of getting some of the fibers wound around the cutter and balling up hunks of foam & cloth (memories of a wad of cheese cloth sucked onto the cutter at 20,000 rpms while doing a fine edge). I don't want to destroy the cloth, like can happen when drilling holes in carpet or cloth with a spiral type of cutter. Any ideas on this one? Maybe just dry-fit the panel first, cut the opening and then remove the panel & skin it with cloth before the final installation? I could then leave the cloth in place over the hole & cut an "X" with a knife once the glue sets.

I could also leave most of the vent hole panel in place and just trim out the edges most of the way to the corners. Maybe leave 1/2" of wood at the edges and then cut out the center of the hole once the panel is glued into the sides. Then wrap the cloth up into the vent opening & tuck it in? I'm probably over thinking this one, but I want a nice clean install & the finished look is what I'm after. I want to upholster the panel first, then install it all at one time. The trim ring for the fan should pull nicely into the cloth & foam for a clean, snug fit.

I'm thinking I will cut back the cloth & foam from the edge of the panel, about 3/8" (see first picture), so it drops into the slot and makes a nice tight fit at the wall. If I get it right, the cloth will act like a trim piece or a molding at the joint of the ceiling panel & the wall, and I won't have to use any trim or be able to see a seam where there might be a slight gap between the two wood surfaces. Here's a picture of the rabbet edge from this weekend's work, where the 1/8" birch will sit and be glued in place by the spars (3/4" x 1 1/2" poplar).





I need to locate the wires which will feed the ceiling lights and drill the panel for them before I put the cloth liner in place. That way I can just nick the cloth from above and pull the wires through when it's time to pull wires & set fixtures.

Thanks for looking. Input? tim

[48Rob]

Tim,

I used an automotive type carpet on the ceiling in a previous trailer.



The carpet was fairly stiff, so I was able to attach it directly to the spars, without a backer.
Perhaps you should consider installing 1/8" paneling in/as the ceiling, and glue the cloth to it?
Your openings could be precut in the panel, allowing you to use a knife to open them in the cloth.

Rob

[Juneaudave]

I used Marine hull liner from YouAutoTrim.com with good results. It is like a thin carpet and is resistant to mildew. Whatever you use, just be sure you use the right adhesive designed for headliners!

[noseoil]

Dave & Rob, thanks for your input. I'll look into the marine hull liner cloth and see what's out there. Dave, the car carpet sounds a bit too hard for what I'm doing. About the adhesive, my biggest concern here is with the heat. I need to find a high temp adhesive which will stand up to the inside temperature here in the desert. A car will get to be about 140 degrees inside on a hot day, so I figure a trailer will also.

Some type of contact cement will be what I'm after, anyone have one they know will stand up to this type of heat and maintain a good bond over time?

[dales133]

I've carpeted a few boats and as you described it is a mongral to drill definatly cut your hole first , carpet over it then trim it out later with a knife.

[grant whipp]

Hey, Tim!

Here's how I've had most of my 39 teardrops done:

The upholstery shops I've used simply cut a piece of benderboard (the stuff they make door panels and other such pieces out of) slightly undersized to fit the ceiling ... they mark & cut out the vent opening ... then they cover the benderboard with my choice of fabric (usually automotive trunk liner, but I've also spec'd a more "plush" fabric), wrapping the fabric around the edges and gluing to the back side ... they attach velcro material at every cross beam in the roof and along the edges ... and then they simply press the panel into place. Nice clean edges all around without the need for any moldings (the trim garnish for the roof vent finishes off that part), and the bonus of being able to remove the panel (if needed) to access any wiring that might be in the ceiling.

Just another option ... ...!

CHEERS!

[noseoil]

Grant, thanks for the description on your headliners. It sounds like a good solution to the question. I'm curious about insulation with that method. I'm going to have 1 1/2" of foam between the spars, to try to deal with the heat here in Arizona. What keeps your insulation up there? thanks, tim

[Tom Kurth]

The RV manufacturer I work for uses a product called SoftSide in our horse trailers on both ceilings and walls. It is similar to auto headliner. It's a vinyl (I think) fabric over foam backing. It's applied by spraying the in-place wall or ceiling and the foam separately with a contact cement like is used for P-lam. The adhesive nature of the cement is such that you can pull the fabric loose and re-apply until you get the wrinkles, etc. worked out. There is nothing else holding it up except where cabinets are installed and crown molding around cabinets and wall edges. Our ceilings and walls are usually 1/4" or 1/2" OSB.

Sorry I can't tell you anything about price or availability.

Best,
Tom

[grant whipp]

Tim!

I just glue my foamboard insulation in place with Liquid Nail for Projects (won't attack the foam). A nice snug fir of all the pieces helps, too ... ...!

Good Luck, and as always ...

CHEERS!

[martymcfly]

Foss makes a fabric made specifically for rv use. It is called ozite. I have used it in a couple of motorhomes and it was really easy to work with. They make it for different applications. The rv one is made to resist cooking odors. I realize that is not a problem in a TD, but would still work great. For a teardrop, you could get a rem from the end of the roll maybe.

[noseoil]

This search is taking me to places I didn't think I'd be going. I got some samples of headliner material, but it looks pretty cheesy to me. Not at all happy with the type of cloth, weight or look. I'm glad I got a sample as I was surprised with the lack of quality. I didn't mind the headliner, until I got it home and held it up against the stained wood. The wood looks nice, the cloth looks too muddy & dingy next to the wood.

I did some more searching and came up with an alternative. I'm looking at some 9-10 ounce white cotton duck, or a plain old canvas type of material. Thinking this might be more of the look I want (half way between burlap & silk?). I realize now that I want a very light ceiling panel for a headliner, so I figured just go with a plain white and the canvas texture would look good. I want the ceiling to be lighter than the walls and the walls are a very light honey maple now. Figure I can use Grant's method of wrapping the edges, then slide in the panel. I would just need to adjust the rabbet joint at the wall edge for the thickness of the material, use some Scotch-guard for stains & smudges after it is glued in place, and have a good looking headliner.



Also, perhaps even better is an unbleached type.



Any thoughts on this one?

[MtnDon]

We used hull liner in our CTC. For adhesive we used two 3M products; Fastbond 30 NF and #77.

Fastbond 30 NF is a low odor non flammable water based contact cement. It is the best water based there is. We used it on the wood and foam that was going to have the hull liner applied to inside the trailer. We picked it because of the non flammability and the low VOC's which is healthier than the bad organincs in common contact cements. A quart, the smallest size goes a long ways. I applied that with a small sponge roller. Two coats to be sure of coverage. It is safe on foam sheets too.

The 3M #77 is a spray adhesive in a can. It is flammable and high in VOC's. We used it on the back of the hull liner. I sprayed it outside on a windless day. I did not use the Fastbond 30NF on the cloth as it wanted to soak in too much.

We are happy with the finished project. We used the sand color and like the way it looks with the wood adjacent to it.

[aggie79]

Here's another vote for hull liner:



I built my framed my roof/ceiling in place, then removed it, added 1/8" plywood to the interior side of the teardrop, followed that with hull liner, and reinstalled the assembly.











For me, this method was easier than wrestling with installing the plywood and hull liner overhead once the framing was in place.