Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers

Hello All

I am about to start my build. I have been a member on TNTT for a couple years or so and have followed many builds and learned so much from you all. Thank You all for the immense amount of knowledge you have all shared.

I have purchased the Fredrick's manual and am considering the Kuffel creek plans. But my build leaves me with a few question before I start. And they may have be answered before, but I have not found all the answers I was looking for yet in previous entries.

The plan is to use the Benroy for local outings as well and long distance tours. As for off roading, I doubt I will do much of that. I may take a wander down a gravel road or a old logging trail but that will not be my standard trip. I live in Toronto so trips to northern Ontario as well as a south west tour through California. I also travel to Florida regularly and plan on camping there as well. My tow vehicle is a Ram 1500 pickup. Therefore trailer weight isn't the issue other than considerations for fuel consumption and drive-ability. I am just trying to seek a balance of weight and economics.

• A standard queen bed is 60". I was going top make the Benroy with a custom 5' x 10' or 5' x 11' trailer. I would like 3/4" plywood walls to support a canoe or a pair of bikes on the roof. If I use 3/4" ply with 3/4" insulation and 1/8" interior walls that would leave me 60" - ((.75" + .75" + .125") * 2)) = 58 1/4" inside between the walls. Do you just squeeze a queen in to the space and not worry about it or make the trailer 5' 2 " wide. I would think changing bed sheets to be difficult when the bed is crowded against the wall. Which means making the roof and skinning it with aluminium a wee bit more difficult and expensive. I am ok with a 6' wide trailer if need be. I am just trying to resist the first time builders over design.
  
• Is it worth doing CEPS on the exterior walls followed by a layer of light fiberglass mat and epoxy before I skin with aluminium. Mainly to resist moisture but also to give it rigidity.
  
• A friend has some experience building commercial trailers, and has advised me to resist using steel tubing because of rust. He is leaning me toward steel C Channel. Main reason being here in Southern Ontario there will be condensation that happens and will cause the frame to rust from the inside out. Other than shouldering the C Channel with a steel plate at the Timbren axles I don't see an issue with using C Channel. I have seen a few builds with C Channel but I am not sure of any down sides to using it.
  
• I have also considered aluminium tube for a trailer frame. The issue I have is welding aluminium and the additional cost, as I feel you need a heavier thickness in the wall of the square tube. This also brings other worries to the table when you mount the Timbren axles as they are steel. Thus I worry about galvanic corrosion. Crushing the tube is also a worry when cranking down the bolts.
  
• The material for the exterior walls will be covered with CPES so is it crucial to use BB or is exterior fir or spruce acceptable?
  
• I am comfortable with doing the electric wiring. I was considering a WFCO or Progressive Dynamics power center for its neatness and compactness. I could just as easily wire a panel/converter system, battery charger with future provisions for a solar system (in the future). Is there any advantage to the PD or WFCO systems? Or is this just a preference.
  
• I will not do any winter camping in Ontario, but will in the south (Florida etc) Winter in Florida can be cool in the evenings so I don't worry about A/C. Desserts in AZ are cool at night as well. Is there a need for A/C ?

Many Thanks for taking the time to read this post. Looking forward to your suggestions.

Kindest Regards
Peter

Hellloooo!

Do you just squeeze a queen in to the space and not worry about it ...

Yes. As long as it's foam, it works fine.



(My wife hates that pic!) It's not too bad changing the fitted sheet with two people working from both sides.

Is it worth doing CEPS on the exterior walls followed by a layer of light fiberglass mat and epoxy before I skin with aluminium.

Not in my opinion. CEPS yes. Or just Raka's thin epoxy. Or even two or three coats of thinned polyurethane.

But fiberglass and mat, no. (On my current build I'm using 4 oz glass because it will be painted with a urethane bed liner.)

is it crucial to use BB or is exterior fir or spruce acceptable?

I prefer 1/4" underlayment plywood on the exterior of a sandwiched wall. It's cheaper than 1/4" AC and has no voids.

I was considering a WFCO or Progressive Dynamics power center for its neatness and compactness.

I've been teardropping since 2004 with 12 volts and have had no need for 120 volts. Think about your electrical needs if you don't go with an A/C unit.

Is there a need for A/C ?

Not where we camp. But a ceiling vent fan by all means.



Enjoy your build.

Tony

I have purchased the Fredrick's manual

P.S. I think Steve was a real pioneer with a lot of his methodology. I followed his manual with my first build. But I believe using heavily skeletonized 3/4" plywood for the structural part of the wall is better than making it out of sticks. More flexibility. Less labor.

And I think mating the bottom of the hatch to the top of the floor isn't the way it should be done. It should mate with the back of the floor.

retep wrote:Hello All.... I would like 3/4" plywood walls to support a canoe or a pair of bikes on the roof.......

Based on my experience, The canoe, bikes are better carried on TV. A typical canoe/kayak outing requires getting to bodies of water that aren't adjacent to the campsite. That means either hauling the trailer to the boat launch or transferring the boats to the TV. Plus, if you decide to go on a day trip canoeing or biking, you won't want to drag the trailer just to carry the boats/bikes. No holes for the roof rack to worry about either. There are many good (not cheap, however) rack systems for PUs.

That will allow you to build lighter; 1/4" or even 1/8" exterior skin and roof.

retep wrote:A friend has some experience building commercial trailers, and has advised me to resist using steel tubing because of rust. He is leaning me toward steel C Channel. Main reason being here in Southern Ontario there will be condensation that happens and will cause the frame to rust from the inside out. Other than shouldering the C Channel with a steel plate at the Timbren axles I don't see an issue with using C Channel. I have seen a few builds with C Channel but I am not sure of any down sides to using it.

Peter - I'm just up the road in Newmarket and I pretty much get what you get ... and it ain't good. There's nothing wrong with C Channel for the kind of use you're looking at provided it's of the right dimensions and thick enough. My "store bought" tear drop is a combination of box tubing and C Channel. It's a good design and the C Channel doesn't concern me one bit. I reinforced a few locations and being C Channel it was easy to do. I have another trailer frame sitting out in my "junk yard" that is with a few exceptions (the tongue) all C Channel and it's plenty tough enough.

I also wouldn't be too concerned about using box tubing. I've built 2 trailers with box tubing and just like a vehicle I spray them with a rust inhibiter. I take my vehicles to Krown Rustproofing and I spray my trailers with the same product - T-40. I drilled a few holes in the frames and use a shutz gun for spraying. It's pretty easy to do. I can't confirm that I get every internal nook and cranny but I also don't have any rust either.

Good luck with your build.

A typical canoe/kayak outing requires getting to bodies of water that aren't adjacent to the campsite.

I concur.



On this new build, I have a receiver on the tongue that a platform bike rack will fit in. It'll sit above the tongue box.



It'll look something like this:



We've hauled our bikes like this in the past with a swing-away.



That's a tremendous amount of weight behind the axle. I didn't like it.

Tony

Pmullen503 wrote:

retep wrote:Hello All.... I would like 3/4" plywood walls to support a canoe or a pair of bikes on the roof.......

Based on my experience, The canoe, bikes are better carried on TV. A typical canoe/kayak outing requires getting to bodies of water that aren't adjacent to the campsite. That means either hauling the trailer to the boat launch or transferring the boats to the TV. Plus, if you decide to go on a day trip canoeing or biking, you won't want to drag the trailer just to carry the boats/bikes. No holes for the roof rack to worry about either. There are many good (not cheap, however) rack systems for PUs.

That will allow you to build lighter; 1/4" or even 1/8" exterior skin and roof.

I agree with this but I'm a shining example of doing it the hard way. I carry 2 kayaks on the top of my trailer vs. my tow vehicle mainly for aerodynamic reasons. It just works well in my case. I try to camp close to water to but agree that that's not always possible. I'm currently building a rack for my TV that I will use only when I get to the camp site, if needed.

As for a "roof rack" I built mine to attach to the side walls vs. the roof. I'm not even sure how the thick the roof is and it really doesn't matter. The rear of the rack is basically a removable "T" bar system attached to a 2" receiver tube below the bumper.

When I built mine I started with a full XL mattress and designed the cabin form there. I left 1.25" on each side of the mattress. It makes putting bedding on easier. There is room to tuck the comforter down. I think we are using a twin comforter. I also and thinking of storing a second solar panel under the mattress so it is very easy to get it there because lifting the mattress is easy. We fit fine on the full. it is still much bigger than the double sleeping bag we used tent camping.

If you are not going off road for the main reason for the build I wouldn't go with Timbrens. I used Timbren for my built for off-road and so far every trip we've done has had some off-roading. There are other options that are lighter and cheaper than Timbren. Check out Tony's new build, that camper will go most every place most people will want to go, even for the off-roaders and Overlanders.

Todd

Peter, you knock'd a home run w/ this post

this group is made up of picture takers and they love to share

you brought up some "Q's" that puzzle many would be builders(incl me)

so much better hearing from those who have rather than from those who have read/heard...

kneadless 2 say i'll be following along

BON CHANCE

sw

Wow !!! First off let me thank all those for the responses. I am amazed at the amount of knowledge and willingness to assist. Such a fantastic community.
Sorry for the late response, I was having car issues and needed to deal with it first.

Tony Latham: You are a true mentor in this hobby. I will be heeding your advice. I was all over the 3/4" walls but you have some great points. A bonded structure will be stronger and lighter. So will likely go the sandwich route with using underlayment with the 3/4" ply hollowed walls with insulation and 1/8" BB interior. Thanks for setting me straight.

Pmullen503 You also have a good point. The trailer in never at the water and the thought of removing it every time is a bit onerous. I am converted!

PCO6 Thanks for agreeing on the rust issues we have. Spent two days tryin to do brakes on my truck. The disc was rusted to the hub so bad. Almost gave up. (Damm brine they use is so so bad. ) Hey where did you you source your materials ? Mainly the aluminium if that is what you used.

Tony Latham:- "On this new build, I have a receiver on the tongue that a platform bike rack will fit in. It'll sit above the tongue box. " I love this idea. May infringe on the copyright.

KTM_Guy - Thanks for the suggestion of a Full XL mattress. I mean it is only 6 inches diff. Great thought

swoody126 - Thanks for the encouragement. I am amazed at all the great people on this forum and the amount of knowledge available.


Again Thanks all for your input.
I look forward to hearing from you again in the future when I start.

retep wrote:PCO6 Thanks for agreeing on the rust issues we have. Spent two days tryin to do brakes on my truck. The disc was rusted to the hub so bad. Almost gave up. (Damm brine they use is so so bad. ) Hey where did you you source your materials ? Mainly the aluminium if that is what you used.

I asked the manager of the Krown outlet that I go to about brine vs. salt. He said that brine is far worse and because it's only been used for a relatively short time in some parts of Ontario ... "we haven't seen the worst of it yet". It may have just been a sales pitch on his part and I have yet to do any research on it.

As for metal suppliers, I go to MegaSteel on Harry Walker Parkway in Newmarket (about 3 minutes off of Hwy 404 between Davies & Green Lane) - https://www.megasteel.ca/ It's like Metal Supermarket (which we don't have here - also good) but they do fabrication if you want it (welding, bending, etc.). I've had them bend some long sheets of aluminum for 2 of my trailers and they did a good job. I think they have a minimum order system but when they get to know you it doesn't matter. They will cut to size and charge for that amount only. Clarence Brown is the owner. He's a good guy and is into competitive off roading.

Just an update. I found a company about 90 min from me that makes a bare bones trailer u-paint-it style.

Frame is 2" x 3" x1/8" and 5'x 10' . Willing to relocate axle to accommodate a tear drop (37.5 % from rear).
Probably cheaper if I weld myself, but I am not that good at it.
A frame tongue with 3500# axles. No brakes. (Yet)

Need to have a look see. Comes with 14" wheels and tires. Not sure if I will upgrade to 15 or 17's yet. I have a height issue in my winter home so every inch counts. Having said that, I also have a steep incline to deal with in the drive way, and fear bottoming the tongue when I backup. Perhaps if time permits I will look at them next week.

I just need to pickup paper work and take to MTO for a plate. Sounds easy peasy. $1250 and will save me days of welding fun.

Then my "Peterbilt" will get started.

Cheers Peter


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