Midwest gas questions

[Jack J]

Howdy,

I am putting the final plans on a roadtrip across the country in June (Washington to Maine) and I am hoping someone can answer some gas questions I have.

Two years ago on a trip, when we were in the midwest, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois area with the '51 Chev, I stopped for gas and filled the tank with gas that evidently had a large percentage of alcohol mixed in it. I started to have a huge problem with vaporlocking. It was really fun when it quit on a bridge over the Mississippi in St Paul at rush hour. The young DOT hiway helper wanted to call a tow truck and I told him I would be back on the road before it got there. He also asked what kind of engine it was as he had never seen that kind before. I run a stock 235 6cyl in it.
It was bad in Iowa and Nebraska. A few times when I needed gas, a alcohol mix was all I could find. It started with low speeds (underhood heat buildup) and then it continued to cause problems at freeway speeds with good airflow. I have had the car in hotter weather before with no problems. I would coast to the side of the road and wrap icewater soaked rags around the gas lines and fuel pump to cool it down.

I want to avoid this picture again.
After about 20 minutes I could get back on the road. Finally after fighting it all day, we were going to a campground to end the day. The car quit on the way into the campground, I coasted to the office and registered then had to be towed, car and TD to the campsite. The fuel pump finally said enough and I put an electric fuel pump on to get to the ITG 1 and home. I did have a couple of hiccups with the electric one until I got into Washington then everything was fine.

So, besides watching the grade of fuel I put in the car, is there any additives that are available in the midwest for us older low pressure fuel systems that will help me avoid vapor locking? I already have a good supply of wooden closepins for clipping on the fuel lines lol.

Jack

[Creamcracker]

Is this a leaded gas engine? If so I would be using the leaded additives that are available.
Philip

[Kurt (Indiana)]

Jack, You might have already tried this, but...

This was written buy some guy who seems to have a heat problem even worse than most:....It might help part of the vapor lock problem.

"Here is my cure for vapor lock. As some of you know, I live in the hottest enviornment to own an older car not designed for the 125 plus Summers. I do not get vapor lock anymore and the cure was so simple. Since you want the metal lines found on the Imperial from the factory to stay, then what I do is wrap them in rubber hoses and tie wrap them on all of the metal lines. No matter where they are, but mainly in the engine department. I use either 3/8 or 7/16 ID hose. I slit it length wise, slip them over the metal line without disconnecting them. I tie wrap them at intervals where it will not come off. I turn the rubber so it faces the heat sources and the open slit areas away from the heat source. I add more ties where it curves so it will follow the curve of the metal lines. I have NEVER had a vapor lock in the last 16 years of desert living."

[Gage]

Don't forget to put a clothes pin in the glove box.

[48Rob]

Hi Jack,

On really hot days here in the midwest (where ethanol is mixed with the gas) I run a half gallon of diesel fuel to ten gallons of gas in my old car (1928).
It stops the problems.
You can buy/use other additives, but diesel is a LOT cheaper!
As Kurt suggested, running the fuel line as far as possible from the heat source, and or insulating it will help.

Another option is to look for a "Caseys" gas station, popular in Illinois and Iowa.
They offer ethanol free gasoline.

Ethanol works well in newer vehicles designed to deal with the problems, but in older cars, like yours, it still offers the opportunity for vapor lock.
Could be too, that the ethanol caused the fuel pump problem, as many of the fuel pumps in the 50's used treated cloth diaphrams, that alcohol will dissolve the coating from...rendering them unable to pump...

Rob

[Lesbest]

Vapor lock is the result of gasoline boiling and forming vapor in the fuel line, thus the name. The reid vapor pressure of fuel is a measurement of its capability to evaporate. The refiners change the reid vapor pressure in the winter to make the fuel vaporise easier, and start better. If you have a tank of fuel that was blended for cold weather and you drive the car in hot weather you have a better chance of vapor lock. In your case the acohol blend is helping the vapor lock happen. To stop the condition you have to raise the boiling point of the gas, this can be done by raising the fuel pressure slightly. If you are using a carburetor on your engine you have to be carefue of the pressure because a needle and seat will only work up to roughly 9-9 1/2 lbs. Higher pressure will push the needle off its seat abd cause spillover. Another way is to insulate the fuel line and keep the fuel cool. A cool can like the racers used to use might help. It is a can with a coiled metal fuel line in it that you can fill with ice to reduce the temp. of the fuel.

The vapor lock problem is more of a problem on the suction side of the fuel pump, because there is little or no pressure. If you installed an electric pump make sure it is as far from the engine as you can get it. That way most of the fuel line is under pressure and less likely to vapor lock.

Hope this helps, maybe it muddys the water more?

Oh and to make the clothespins work you have to soak them in water so that the evaporation process cools the metal lines.
Les

[Sierrajack]

Older engines such as the one you have, probably a 216 C.I. require the use of lead as a "cushioning" agent for the valve seats and to stabilize the fuel. When the fuel burns too quickly, the BTU burn rate soars and you overheat the combustion chamber. Lead helps to prevent the valves from "slamming" shut - metal to metal. You have to use a lead additive with each and every tank full of gasoline or you will eventually bend the valves.
Over heating the fuel lines was explained earlier - which causes vapor lock. I would recommend "fire sleeve" (Summit, Jegs) over the fuel lines and the addition of an electric fuel pump installed before the mechanical one at the tank. You should be running 4-6 pounds of fuel pressure maximum or you'll experience carb seat problems. Do not mix diesel fuel with the gasoline - it will foul badly.
Check the engine timing and make sure it's correct. Check the obvious things - radiator flow, pressure test the radiator cap, proper mix of antifreeze (50-50), etc. Today you almost can not avoid ethanol no matter what you do and here in the Midwest it's running 10% mix which should not affect the engine providing you are using a lead subsititute.
You probably have a 4 bladed fan and I would change that out to a 5 bladed steel fan found on most older Chevys.

[Arne]

Putting rubber hose around the gas line makes sense in that it becomes an insulator.. the gas comes in relatively cool... keeping the engine heat away from the gas line should be a big help...

I would probably not wrap the pump, since it is connected to the engine and would get heat conducted via the metal to the pump....

Plus, it's a cheap fix.

[Jack J]

Thanks to all for the information.

Let me add a little bit more information of what I have. The 235 6cyl originally was a leaded gas engine but when it was rebuilt about 10 years/35k miles ago. It had the hardened valve seats installed with the machinist knowing it would be run with unleaded. I have not added any lead substitute over the years and it has not shown any problems without it. Never heard of or tried the diesel trick. Previously I have run in hotter weather with the temp gauge showing a little higher engine temp than what it was in the midwest with no problems encountered, even up long grade hills. I have a aftermarket 4 core radiator with the correct mix of coolant. That is why I believe it is alcohol that is the cause. I do know about the relation of liquid, vapor and pressure and newer cars with fuel injection run lot higher fuel pressure so no problems for them.
The car has run fine since returning to the northwest. I installed a new mechanical pump on when I got home and am keeping the low pressure electric pump in the trunk with all the other "might need these" parts for the road trip in June. I will see about insulating the fuel lines, and looking for Casey's gas stations. But what is a road trip without a challenge? I hope not a big one though.

Gage, as you like to say, if you have read my post thoroughly, you would read that I have clothes pins already in the car within easy reach at the sign of the first hiccup. LOL But I do appreciate the reminder. See you in Minden.
Still trying to convince the woman about the TD gathering in PA after Minden.

Jack

[Chuck Craven]

Jack

In Wisconsin only the five counties in the southeast part uses the 10% Ethanol blend.
That is Milwaukee, Washington, Waukesha, Racine and Kenosha counties are mandated to use the reformulated gas. The rest of the state uses real gas.

Chuck

[t-vicky]

Replace ALL rubber lines that have come in contact with that junk. If they are the orginal rubber ethenal will eat the inside of the lines & turn them to jelly. Will do the same to the inside of the fuel pump. Been down that road before. Had my 40 Buick towed 4 times in one month.