Modifying a commercial TTT...

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Postby GPW » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:28 am

I don't really care about the resale value ... We're an OLD couple ,and probably will never live long enough to see the resale ....I built what I consider to be my dream trailer(My TD)..the wife wanted more , she bought this, and now we're both unhappy with the propane business.. :o Let me explain further...
1. We don't like Propane !!!
2. Propane was Not readily available when we evacuated for Katrina...electricity however was...there were oven a million people on the road ,all competing for the same services/goods...ever been through that??? probably not !!! Yet...
3. I believe my changes are more practical for us , and GREEN too..I'm planning on installing/using Solar for 12V charging (already have PVs), water heating,and cooking...for the limited times we'll need it...
Think of it not as camping , but going to a nice hotel, but your mother in law and all your family came too to share your hotel room too... Now wouldn't it be nice to have some place to sneak away for a bit of privacy/sleep??? Just an Ac really necessary(like in my dream TD)... but the wife needs something more "homey" . In the old days we did a lot of Van camping...I was the guy that painted the murals on Kustom Vans , I had a total of 8 of them that I built and decorated...we stayed at campgrounds all over, used their shower/bathrooms...went out to eat/shopping (her hobby)...for our limited camping , an igloo and a fan , and Hibachi were enough...But things change, after 35 years ,she's become more spoiled , I'm retired, she has the power job and brings home the "Bacon", so I must make an attempt to honor her "wishes"...


:roll: Sometimes we just have to do things that don't make sense to others, but makes the wife happy...... :oops:
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Postby GPW » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:53 am

The planned changes:
1. Adding a "hot rod' to the Atwood water heater... simple , cheap , does not affect the propane aspect of the WH... our RV dealer told us everything would work off "dual power"... which it was not (water heater)... they do offer a Dual power WH ,essentially the same as the hot rod , but for 600 bucks ... :shock:
2. Removing the propane stovetop/oven,replacing that with more countertop storage space.. we don't plan on cooking inside the trailer anyway...Friends who lived in Katrina trailers, always smelled of cooking ...That's why TDs have the kitchen Outside... Right?
3. Removing the RV refrigerator which works on a different cooling principle requiring a heating element and dangerous gasses/refrigerant, and replacing that with a small /efficient dorm fridge.an igloo, and have space left over (using the propane fridge wall vent for a small air conditioner with an automatic thermostat...(the supplied roof RV air conditioner has no auto on-off and runs constantly ..noisy)

4. Remove the propane furnace entirely...propane lines will be left ,and sealed for future consideration
These features will eliminate alot of unused weight ,allowing us to carry more of the things we consider dear... many folks lost their family photos, various collections, art, musical instruments,clothing, etc. to the storm/looters... some left with only what they brought with them... :oops:
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Postby mikeschn » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:44 am

So if I understand your situation, you'll always have electricity when you bug out. Is this because you are staying in the driveways of friends and relatives?

My little Generic ET is just the opposite. It can run completely rustic. Of course my application is a little different. I want to be able to camp with electric 90% of the time, and camp rustic 10% of the time. AND I want to be able to camp in the backyard in the middle of winter when we have one of Michigan's typical ice storms, and lose power.

Mike...
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Postby GPW » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:27 pm

Mike , for Fun camping, I have my trusty TD.... :thumbsup:
Yes , we'll always be staying in friends driveway...for evac..
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Postby GPW » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:51 am

I know my needs are unusual , as far as the camping crowd goes... I can't be the only one planning for evac.. :o
Most of the bad reactions we've gotten was from the sitting under the Chinese lanterns, socializing type of campers...they tend to get quite hostile ... :shock: especially when I say that we don't like Propane...Don't want to go against the flow, but this particular trailer is STRICTLY for evac, as we have done it so many times in the past...
We tend to evac every couple of years , and before , it always involved living in a friends house, displacing some family members, inconvenient for all ...the first place we stayed during Katrina (the big one) had 27 people sleeping in a small house with one bathroom...like living in the bus station...even though these were all family, there was a certain amount of tension /friction (familiarity breeds contempt)...and the only sane ones were the ones who lived outside in the motorhome/RV in the driveway...able to escape the fray/insanity...so we moved to some other friends house, that had a spare house (empty rental) that we could use...we had to share that house with another couple who drank alot and just went crazy after a week, moved again to another friends house ,a handicapped lady , whose house was a disaster(mess) and we had to help clean up and organize ...All these folks were good friends, but after living with them for a couple days , all their "faults" (and ours too)were revealed...During times like these , stress and anxiety ran high and the only way to alleviate this stress was to go somewhere ,giving them and us some private moments...a rolling bedroom would have eliminated all this ..which is where we got the idea of building a TD... just that the wife wanted more(full bathroom)...hence her TT purchase...
The RV dealer did a poor job (deceptive)of describing the features of the trailer, telling us a lot of wrong information(he must have been a military recruiter in the past)..plus at the time ,we were more susceptible to aggressive salesmanship ... After getting home and reading the information , we found many of the features we wanted , just weren't on that particular trailer(electric appliances).. when we confronted the dealer , he offered to install the proper equiptment for an additional cost (6K) which we thought was rather high... most unfriendly..
If I had my druthers , I'd have built the Generic ET the way I wanted and been done with it...but the wife had other plans ... which now , I have to deal with... :shock:
I really thought the friendly folks here would be receptive to my ideas , and offer bits of information that would help me plan the modifications ... of course, they did not...some even acted insulted...What the heck ???
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Postby Mark & Andrea Jones » Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:58 pm

GPW wrote:I know my needs are unusual , as far as the camping crowd goes... I can't be the only one planning for evac.. :o
Most of the bad reactions we've gotten was from the sitting under the Chinese lanterns, socializing type of campers...they tend to get quite hostile ... :shock: especially when I say that we don't like Propane...Don't want to go against the flow, but this particular trailer is STRICTLY for evac, as we have done it so many times in the past...


GPW wrote: I really thought the friendly folks here would be receptive to my ideas , and offer bits of information that would help me plan the modifications ... of course, they did not...some even acted insulted...What the heck ???


Huh? That wasn't what I got out of re-reading the posts. I think it was more that most people simply didn't comprehend or did not have anything to add to your thoughts already. Not too many people even inside of a flood-prone area are going to build / convert a evacuation trailer and then you throw in a propane phobia, well its just a little "out-of-the-box".

Maybe you need to start a movement of your own. Building and outfitting evacuation trailers for the Gulf areas. I can see where something like that could be useful, but I think that I'd want it to be a trailer that is used on a regular basis - such as a spare bedroom if the in-laws / nieces / nephews come to visit. Maybe set the trailer up semi-permanently on blocks, but in such a fashion that you could drop it off the blocks and onto wheels fairly quickly. Build an overhang that you can pull the trailer up to when you park it, so that friends / family won't feel like they have to walk to / from the house in the weather too much. You can get pretty creative with the overhang, too. Wire the trailer so that you could have a "semi-permanent" hookup to your home when it isn't in evac mode, but you can still hook up temporarily when you ARE in evac mode (such as in a friend's driveway). [Oops, just realized that the trailer probably CAME that way!] Since you would want to cook outside anyway, set up some kind of galley that is on slides that comes out of an access panel on the side of the trailer and make sure that you have some kind of awning over the kitchen area - with sides to it, too.

Re: cooking outside. If it was me, I'd be using a propane stove, but you've made your phobia pretty clear, so I'm not real sure what you'll actually use. :thinking: I know you can find the single eye electric plates around Wally World. I imagine that one (or two) of those, a microwave, and a coffee machine could cover most of what you'd need for the short-term evacuation.

Good luck on your retrofit and give us a review after your first bug-out with the trailer. I just hope you get the retrofit finished before you actually need it. :shock: Be sure to post some pics. Thinking outside-of-the-box isn't a bad thing.

Andrea.
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Postby devigata » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:06 pm

What is your tow vehicle?

Perhaps a cargo-type trailer and sleeping van would better suit your needs? I understand about evac, especially with this dumb TS Fay hanging around central Florida like she is. Glad she's only wet and not strong. We keep blue boxes for all our pics, knowing what our keepers are, and we have the camping stuff in a tiny trailer~just in case. But we're just tent camping for now.

I feel your needs, to be sure! Sorry you've had bad feedback from folks about that whole propane thing.
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Postby GPW » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:04 am

Andrea, Devi, Thanks for your kind responses... what I'm doing seems to be Most unusual in many peoples eyes, no matter where they live..
We do have the trailer now in the driveway outside the house, The wife and I regularly, "pretend" camp , hooking up the service , sitting around discussing /trying out different aspects of the trailer...After a while , it became obvious what we liked and didn't like , and what would make the wife more comfortable...We've discussed many options ,changes, and settled on the few changes presented previously...
Around here , Everybody has developed their own style of evac, you see many forms of tents,popups, pickup campers,etc on the slow drive outta' town... There are probably quite a few folks around here who would be interested in an evac trailer,and Many who now have experience with FEMA trailers would be particularly "picky"about their evac accommodation's...
The RV dealers around here are just into the traditional trailers/motor homes , and are more concerned with a quick profit, than actually fulfilling peoples actual needs...so some type of evac trailer web page might be helpful to the area.
I'm all for traditional camping , being a Primitive hunter and fisherman. Most of that camping has been very basic..involving as little equiptment as possible (backpack).. Done lots of that, but the wife doesn't share my views(non-sportsman)... Evac proved to be a different sort of scenario , more like urban camping with a million other folks..Grocery stores overcrowded (the National guard was outside the Wal Marts only letting in a few people at a time ) Most goods in short supply (Propane especially) and everyone competing for what would be normal purchases..Tensions ran high in stores with lines sometimes 25 people deep...empty shelves, and the general stress on most everyone displaced, especially those that were un prepared...For Katrina, everyone left , prepared for the usual 3 day evac, not thinking that the Corps of Engineers designed levees would fail and flood most of the city for a month... After three days , there was panic ...when supplies ran out and everyone was forced to buy everything they didn't have to survive for the month it took to drain the city...Who knew???
On our adventure, we saw quite a few folks that had trailers/motorhomes/etc. that were quite comfortable living in someones driveway..hence the idea ... :thumbsup:
I now have the TT and my TD, both fully equipped and ready to go...But the changes , we feel, would make the bigger one more livable ...I'm going to the store today (Grocery day) and will check out energy efficient appliances in order to plan an energy budget for whatever service we have available ..
Note: even with the TT as is, you still need to plan your energy usage as their appliances (stock) draw over the limit for most electrical service, they mention it casually in their instructions...
:roll:
I guess asking any more if anybody has any experiences like this , will have to be done carefully ,and only limited to the particular piece of equiptment considered...not wanting to offend anyone .
Being an Artist for a living , I've always been a sorta' alternative guy, thinking waaaay outside the box (creativity).. So no idea is too far out to be at least considered... so ideas like solar cooking and Rocket stoves , really work for me (tried em', like em' )...This trailer thingie' is just more of the same...fitting a space to our needs... simple , but inflammatory to those used to doing it in the "normal" manner... :o
I was just hoping to get some ideas from others that had similar needs/experience...even the negative feedback was helpful, generating further thought...so all was not wasted...a Big Thanks to all!!!
:)
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Postby Elumia » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:58 pm

Sorry I don't take Chinese lanterns camping either....

I'm sorry if you thought I was heckling you, I was just giving my pragmatic opinion - especially one that relates to the other half paying the bill and wanting to protect the investment that you will "be paying on for some time".

What about fixing your hot water to also use electric - I assume that's what the "hot rod" is.

Get a better thermostat for the rooftop AC so it doesn't run as often - sounds like the issue is related not having an Auto position on your current one rather than a bad AC unit.

Put a cutting board over the stove and leave it there for extra counter - store your pots and pans (or whatever) in the oven.

Leave all the gas, just shut it off at the valve, it will still be there if you need it.

Leave the furnace, just don't use it. What if you have to bug out where it gets cold? What if you need it because you had a freak ice storm?

Leave the existing fridge - I assume it works on electric and propane. It is likely an absorption type which would be more efficient than a dorm type which uses a compressor.

Spend your money/time on equipping a cargo trailer for storage of possessions, valuables and extra supplies - I assume you'd bug out with 2 vehicles. Heck it could even have a galley and be your outdoor kitchen.

My biggest concern would be the waste water issue - if you use the potty, you have to empty the black water. Does your bug out site have proper hook-ups (you wouldn't if you parked at my house) or do you have to drive the trailer to a dump site every so often? That could be your biggest hassle.

Mark
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Postby GPW » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:36 pm

Elumia, sound advice!!! Will get the Hot Rod for the WH, will keep the stove,refrigerator etc. and ask about the AC auto thermostat... so the fan won't run constantly...
Propane is shut off at the bottle so shouldn't be a problem...
I'll never be able to get "her worship" to tow even the thinest trailer...so will store more stuff in the back of my pickup (camper top equipped)

We'll probably use the hosts bathroom facilities , but will make plans for the wastewater...
Freak Ice storm ??? That will only happen if the Saints win a Superbowl ...hahahaha

Thanks !!! :thumbsup: :)

Ps. I Love Chinese lanterns !!! ...was planning on getting some ... ;)
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Postby Elumia » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:22 pm

here's your all electric trailer

http://squob.com/travel_trailers/new-sh ... -electric/

Image

Image

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Postby wridley » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:46 pm

That is one NICE looking unit!
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Postby GPW » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:40 am

Elumia, Thanks for your most "comforting" post!!!! So it's me and a large Corporation now that thinks that this is a good idea...Hmmm???
We used our trailer for Gustav evac for a week... never cracked the Propane , never had to...just plugged in and waited out the storm... no problems... :thumbsup:
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