The Plain Truth

[IraRat]

We all agree that there are generations of some who simply go welfare to welfare. However, this is a SMALL group of people, and the amount of money is NEGLIGIBLE as it relates to the budget.

It's like ONE PERCENT!

All of the visceral screaming and complaining about this is because the "face" of these recipients seems to be mainly black. But guess what? That's not the case either

Because you won't BELIEVE how many good old white boys throughout Appalachia collect from generation to generation too. (It's hard to make a living killing raccoons and rocking on your front porch.)

Next, it's not even about helping the poor who WANT to help themselves, because a certain political party doesn't seem to care much about that EITHER. Why, one of Reagan's first priorities was to TAX unemployment insurance, money that CAME from taxes in the first place. So I work hard at a job for ten years, for whatever reasons I'm now looking for another one before my 6 months of unemployment run up, and I have to pay taxes on $200, $250 a week?

Next comes "welfare," when your unemplyment runs out, consisting of food stamps and cash assistance. And who, prey tell, runs this vital program in Florida?

Lockeed-Martin--an aviation company.

Yes, a George Senior change based on the never-ending belief that the private sector will ALWAYS do a better, more efficient job than government. (Ooops, fast-forward to Enron and Worldcom--a lot of new welfare recipients THERE!)

Lockheed-Martin--we really have our priorities straight. This makes about as much sense as hiring a horse show director to be in charge of...

Oh, forget it That's a different story.

But to get welfare, you have to first sell your car and spend all of your money. Because you're not allowed to have any assets! And who needs a car to get to work anyway? It's only a 30-mile walk! Plus, there's a McDonald's on every corner. (God forbid they were all schools/training programs.)

But let's say you have finally gotten your "Stamp of Approval" and you now have food stamps/card in hand and your money is on the card. Do you think this goes on forever?

No, just a few months. Then, outstanding circumstances aside, you DO have to work, even if it's for only 20 hours a week, or you have to sit in a room. (I'm not saying this is a bad thing; I'm just trying to say that some people's stereotype of the long-time purple Cadillac-driving welfare recipient is long dead.)

A lot of the people just sit in that room, because how many people does McDonald's really need in the first place?

But here are the GOOD parts to the program--they will pay tuition for certain approved programs. The only problem is, there aren't a heck of a lot of programs, especially in Appalachia, and the amount of money they offer is pretty pitiful. Of course, this money gets less and less, because a lot of working folks don't want spending "their" money on such foolishness.

Even for a guy to become a carpenter's apprentice, to subsidize his income a little, so a small carpenter can afford to train him. Maybe even give that carpenter some significant tax breaks for doing so.

Nahhh--WE all did it without any help! Screw him!

So don't be so proud of how you made out (so far). Life circumstances and luck have a lot to do with it. Yes, your individual efforts matter the most, but a lot people need some help with the first two.

If it's not government's job to help make this happen, then we're totally doomed. (And right on about the outsourcing--this is going to KILL us.)

It's amazing how many people refuse to ignore history, like Roosevelt's New Deal, and see just how successful that was. If government HADN'T gotten involved, where the hell would we be today?

On a final note, I don't want MY money spent on a ridiculous war in Iraq that's going to accomplish nothing. I guess it's okay for Government to wage war, but not help its most needy?

[Nitetimes]

Ira - I think you've got a very good imagination and have obviously never been around any gen to gen welfare folks. The scenerio you propose only applies if you have actually worked and payed into the system for some amount of time. If you have been borm into the welfare system it is very easy to figure out how to circumvent the regulations that are supposed to keep you from spending the entirety of your natural life on it. I live in an area where a good portion of the population spends there time trying not to work and the ones that do go to work go when they please and do only what they want when they get there. Why not, when the worst that can happen is you get fired and collect a little longer. With some people this is a never ending process, they have it down to a science. And as hard as it is for you to believe this goes on in a lot of places, it is not uncommon at all.
The time limits and asset checks and such only apply to hard working people that pay into this system year after year (graciously keeping these people in steak, pizza, beer, drugs and large screeen TV's) then suddenly find themselves in a situation with no immediate way out, maybe an extended illness or got hurt at work or in an accident, now with no income to pay the bills they do the only thing that most of them would never consider doing, they apply for welfare, food stamps ect. Now after waiting in line behind 30 welfare babies with their screaming welfare babies you get to your rep only to find that you've been denied for everything but $60 worth of foodstamps per month (and be sure to let us know if you make ANY money so we can stop them). And think about this, you got denied because you spent your life working for the things you wanted, house, car other miscelaneous toys you may own, all of which the people in the welfare office will be more than happy to inform you that you are welcome to sell if you want to survive because you'll have to do it without the assistance you worked to pay for in case you ever had this type of problem.
In the meantime the welfare baby in the other line with her six welfare babies at her feet just picked up her $500 Access card, her $1000 voucher for a car (that she'll likely spend $300 on) and OH YEA, why was my rent payment late last month. The landlord was mad at ME
Don't bother to tell me I'm exaggerating or making any of this up, been there, done that. The scenario I described here goes on all over the country not just in my area, the amount of money spent is massive as is the amount of abuse.
I have enough trouble paying my own bills so it really irks me when I have to pay someone elses all thier life.

Oh, an by the way, give up the black and white thing, there are as many white welfare bums as black, that primarily depends on the population of a given area. If it's a mostly white population your welfare babies are gonna be mostly white, naturally, if the population is predominently black it stands to reason you will see more blacks in the welfare office. Seems like it's always the liberals that want to put a particular face on the statistics.

[D. Tillery]

Maybe when someone applies for public assistance the govt should confiscate their couch and TV until they find a job! Maybe drive and round them all up for public works jobs in order to get their checks. That's too cruel!

And that Tribes/eject guy. In the amount of time he wasted composing that diatribe he could have gotten off of his ass and actually done SOMETHING to solve the problem he is addressing. I agree with some of his points but Jeeeze. The man reminds me of that chatacter, Zed, form Pulp Fiction.

Everyone I know in metal fabrication is busy too. Small guys like me don't put want ads so it is hard to find people to work. Plus my guys are not the newspaper browsing type. And when business slows, the help has to go. A lot of semi-skilled labor does not have the foresight or knowledge to always keep on the lookout for the NEXT job. And if all y'all with "stable" jobs are not looking for your next job, you're nuts.

Oh, and walk your middle-class rear end into the welfare office. I did about 12 years ago when I got laid off. What a joke!

Just another 2 cents on the wwwasteland!!

D. Tillery

[ceebe]

Madjack, Nitetimes,
I been there done that too. But, y' know, the blinder wearing proponents of universal public assistance will refuse to be swayed by personal anecdotes. To them, YOU"RE the tiny minority in thes scheme and the rest are downtrodden masses who are kept there by the successful. (i.e. You and Me).
There goes that dam' soapbox again, jumping under my feet!

[DestinDave]

I have never picked up a newspaper in any town and found the Help Wanted section to be blank!

[IraRat]

Well, Nite--you might have a point there. Probably a lot of them. But I don't think either of us are talking from strict anectodal evidence.

But I think we both agree that the system is terrible. It's just that you're talking about the thousands of lazy bums who don't want to work, and I'm talking abouth the thousands of people who DO want to work, but they need the training/assistance to get there, or who are in a rough temporary spot in their lives, like Powder was.

And the system contains BOTH types.

Finally, hats off to Powder for his honesty. A lot of us have been in similar situations, but don't want to admit it.

Hey, I think we're actually agreeing more than disagreeing here. Are we allowed to do that?

[asianflava]

But I think we both agree that the system is terrible. It's just that you're talking about the thousands of lazy bums who don't want to work, and I'm talking abouth the thousands of people who DO want to work, but they need the training/assistance to get there, or who are in a rough temporary spot in their lives, like Powder was.

And the system contains BOTH types.

Exactly: the problem is, how do you seperate out folks who just need help to get back on their feet from the ones want help so they don't have to work. You really can't, you have to treat everybody the same.