American Auto Company Perception Problem

[asianflava]

I have 2 problems with the article that started this thread.

Ford and General Motors have taken turns besting the Toyota Camry in quality surveys for the past two years, but if you talk to many Americans - especially the ones who would never consider supporting home-based auto companies - you’d never know it.

I don't know which surveys Ford and GM are using because this link from JD Powers says that Toyota and Lexus got 11 of the 19 spots.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/r ... ID=2006082

Last year, the Chevrolet Impala beat the Toyota Camry in initial quality according to J.D. Power & Associates, and Consumer Reports just announced that both the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan scored higher than both the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord this year

The Impala isn't in the same category as the Camry. The bread and butter Camry and Accord are in "Midsize" whereas the Impala is in the "Midsize Sport" Which BTW was won by the Toyota Solara this year.

Yes, the newer cars are better but it is an uphill battle to for the domestics to get over the stigma of their days of shoddy quality. My Mazda just hit 200K and it works like a champ. It is, for all intents and purposes a Ford Ranger and only a Mazda in name. The Ranger chassis has been around since the Carter administration so they should have the kinks worked by now. My wife's Toyota has been to the dealer several times, more times than I would like. Even after that, she still loves her car.

I would probably still NEVER buy a Ford, GM or Dodge car, a truck yes, but not a car. If there is one thing that the American companies do well, it's the truck segment. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or argue my point.

Kohler and Briggs mow my lawn and the Jeeps that won the war are are nothing like the ones today.

[SteveH]

Like I said in the thread earlier, I recently shopped the small truch market on the net (didn't want to deal with sales people), and I was interested in better fuel mileage. I shopped Ford, Chevrolet, Dodge, Toyota, and Nissan, and with compareable sized engine, they all got the same gas mileage within a mile or so. Additionally, if I compared a small truck with, say a V6 or 5 cyclinder engine to my current Dodge full size V8, there was a realistic 1 to 2 miles per gallon mileage improvement. With the amount of miles that I drive a year, this computed to about $200 a year savings. Hardly worth trading for. I will buy a more fuel efficent vehicle when it is time to trade, but my money will go to an American company.

But for now, we have a 2000 Dodge Durango with 66K miles, and a '04 Dodge pickup with 59K miles. NOTHING has needed repairs on either of them. I have put a set of tires on each of them, changed the oil and filters, and serviced the transmissions once. So far, I'm happy with them.

[Steve Frederick]

We have a 2000 Dodge Durango, got it new. No problems/issues, except mileage!
The truck has always had recommended service, never a repair, except tires, brakes. It's best feature now, it's paid for!!

Skipper, Have you towed anything with the TDI?
Mike S had the same car, I think, when he picked up the 'Diner.
I've always wanted another VW..Had a Rabbit..loved it!
I'm thinking more about Diesel now!

[SkipperSue]

Skipper, Have you towed anything with the TDI?
Mike S had the same car, I think, when he picked up the 'Diner.
I've always wanted another VW..Had a Rabbit..loved it!
I'm thinking more about Diesel now!

Hi Steve,
I haven't towed anything with it yet but it will be my TV. I haven't got a hitch for it yet. My 2003 Jetta is rated at 90 HP with 155 pounds of torque, I've seen elsewhere that they tow well. Diesels are inherently torque monsters, great for towing. You can't beat the mileage either!

[anonymous2]

Woodbutcher,

Since I have been driving {1966} I have had several new American cars. They were AMC,Chevy, Plymouth,Buick,Pontiac,Dodge X 2, Chevy,Dodge in that order. Of all of those the Pontiac was the best, requiring the least maintenance,at relatively low milages {under 50K}. The last Dodge was such a POS I had 3 factory reps. involved ,and was the third person in Pa to get a vehicle replaced by our new lemon law. The replacement was as bad as the original,and only kept that car 9 months. It was replaced by an upstart Japanese company called Subaru,and I haven't looked back. That car we had for 13 years 225K miles,and only replaced brakes,exaust & normal maintenance{even the original shocks were still on the vehicle}. The only reason we got rid of it was because the body was rusting away. Along the last 22 years we have had Honda's Subaru's & Toyota's ,and yes I had a bad Subaru, a 2003 Outback,but for the most part absolutely flawless vehicles.

If you read my post I was stating that even Foriegn cars use JD Power as a selling tool,and yes I have sent the surveys back in the last 10 years or so asking them to send it back in a few years,as I see their surveys as an unfair ratings tool. None ever have. In the last 10 years we now trade them in every 3-4 years,so I have no maintenance expenses,except for routine maintenance. Except the 03 Outback, none of the others even have seen warrranty work in the time that we have owned them.

And if you think your money is going to an American bank,think again. Many banks in this country are backed,or owned by foriegn countries including the Saudies,Ireland,Japan,Germany,and many others. Do some financial internet research on that if you don't believe me. Just one such articule:
http://www.iadb.org/jpn/japan.pdf You have to read it all,but the US is a non-member borrowing nation.

It's a global economy,deal with it, the old days are gone,and it will never be the way it should be,because there are Billions of greedy souls wanting your money.

pateardropper

[Woodbutcher]

Pateardropper

My experiance has been similar to yours. I have bought 17 new vehicles since I started driving in 1970. Can't remember all the used ones. What is differant is my experiance with American car companies. Of the 17 new cars and trucks only 2 were Japanese. I had a Datsun truck that I believe was rusting in the showroom before I took delivery. Springs poked me in the butt and several other annoying problems. Dumped that. Ten years later I tried another one. Only then they had become Nissan. Bought it because it was the cheapest small truck out there. Ran fine for years no problems. But the other 15 new vehicles with the exception of a Dodge Mini van and a Chevy Cavalier that needed trans work (under warenty) I have never had any issues.
Useing your logic, after getting a bad Dodge you never went back. Will you by another Subaru after getting a bad one?
All car companies make some bad vehicles. The basic theme in the article is how that forms our perception of these companies. As you can see we have drawn differant conclusions. I have had favorable results buying American and you Japanese. Not a problem. If it wasn't for all the choices it would be a pretty boring world.

[dhazard]

My 2 centavo on this… I have not bought a new “American” Car or truck. My 2004 Pontiac Vibe I bought is more Japanese / Toyota, than American / Pontiac. My 2002 Chevy Camaro was made in Canada… The 2000 Ford ZX2 before that was from Mexico… If I go back to 95 the Chevy Berretta was mostly “American” with some foreign parts. They didn’t have to disclose build content back then. ( gave that one away with 350,000 miles on it ) My 78 Ford truck had a Canadian motor… If someone knows of a car or truck that is made in America please post it. On the Quality part of this each new car I have gotten was better than the last…and I will buy as close to American as possible for my next one.

Dan

[Spadinator]

Even the beloved Corvette (America's car) is not made in the US totally, it is assembled here (Kentucky). The engine is Maserati and the trans is German.

I have two Ford's as my personal vehicles and Chev Silverado as my patrol vehicle. All three have good and bad qualities but personally I prefer my 1967 Bug. That thing starts everytime, is easy to maintain and built solid as a rock even 40 years later.

[Leon]

The Tremec is made in Mexico and the 4L65-E are built at Toledo Transmission in Toledo, Ohio and have also been built at Romulus Transmission in Romulus, Michigan and Ramos Arizpe, Mexico.
TheZ06's LS7 is American made. From a review in Popular Hot Rodding -
"The result is the new GM Performance Build Center in Wixom, Michigan, a 100,000 square-foot testimony to The General's seriousness in building serious performance engines. The entire facility is dedicated to hand crafting low-volume extreme performance engines like the LS7 for specialty vehicles such as the upcoming Z06."

[wolfix]

If Harley Davidson made planes, would you fly?

The motorcycle world is made up of two types of riders. Those who ride for sport and those who ride for transportation. Both types have different needs for a bike.
Recently a cycling magazine did study of weekend riders. The typical Harley rider rides a few miles short of 100 miles on a weekend. The Honda rider rides an average 248 miles a weekend.

But if you ride 248 miles a weekend on a special bike.......BMW.

I get a kick out of those guys who travel to Sturgis in a 4 wheel vehicle towing their Harleys.

[Fenlason]

As others have said.. J D Power holds no weight with me. I keep hearing how there is this misperception of american vehicles.. and that they have improved. Well perhaps they have improved.. but not in my expereince as much as some of the foreign ones. I have not owned an american car since the 70's. First I went through 3 subaru's.. the last one was junk. I do not know if it was a bad model or just a lemon car... but it turned me off them. This along with a dealer we were no longer happy with..pushed us elseware. We ended up switching over to Honda's and have been very happy since.

I have owned american trucks until last Feb. The last 3 were Fords. The last an E350... their 15 passanger van. Everyone of them.. had the paint peel off. Of all the cars I have had.. none have had the paint peel except those 3. I guess overal the it held up better than vehicles I had in the 70's.. but not like my cars. Some of the routine problems common to this vehicle... were rear heater lines that rust out... repair over $500. Another regular problem, and one that really steamed me.. was an oil pan that rusts out. In a big van with a v 10.. the oil pan is not easy to replace.. the engine needs to be pulled. You would think the oil pan would be one of the last things to rust out.

I now have the new Honda truck.. so far I really really like it.

glenn

[asianflava]

I get a kick out of those guys who travel to Sturgis in a 4 wheel vehicle towing their Harleys.

I've mentioned here before but, when I lived in Daytona, I'd see guys unloading their Harleys at a rest area outside of town, just so they can ride them in.

[Scooter]

Even the beloved Corvette (America's car) is not made in the US totally, it is assembled here (Kentucky).

Very true. When I got my '94 I was shocked to see a Nippondenso a/c under the hood, and noticed the wheels had "Made in Japan" on the back.

The Honda Element is made not far up the road in East Liberty, OH. The wife's CR-V was made in England.

Then before those I had a '87 Corolla that was made in Calif. at the New United Motor Manufacturing plant (NUMMI). Geesh that's 20 years ago!

[asianflava]

What better way to revive this thread than by watching this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... kson&hl=en

It is an hour and 20min long but it is interesting to see the British press' (or at least Jeremy Clarkson's) view on American cars. Even though I'm not a fan of American cars, I don't totally agree with Clarkson on several points. Some of the matchups are dubious and not matched up.

Although Clarkson did buy a Ford GT, he had so many problems with it that Ford refunded his money. He never mentions this in the video. The way he talks about Fords in the video, he is obviously a Ford fan.

It is a long video, I'm shure somebody here is gonna get their feathers ruffled.

[angib]

it is interesting to see the British press' (or at least Jeremy Clarkson's) view on American cars

Those are definitely Clarkson's views, though the British press will generally criticise the same things.

But his comparisons with British products are based on his 'Little Englander' mentality. Doesn't "my country is always right" sound awful when other people say it?

If you're going to leave me on my own in Death Valley, personally I'll take the old Buick rather than the old Jaguar, if you please. But if there's an old Toyota lying around, I'll certainly take that first....

I'm shure somebody here is gonna get their feathers ruffled.

If there is one thing that Clarkson wants to achieve, ruffled feathers is it! Think of him as the motoring equivalent of a right wing radio jock and you've got it nailed.

Andrew