Rumors of a truck strike???

[mikeschn]

It is funny that the price of diesel is just high enough to wipe out the efficiency advantage of diesel engines.

Isn't that so true...

Now if I bought a diesel I'd get the Jetta, which gets almost 50 mpg. However, it's a bit smaller than the Fusion, but I'm getting about 24 mpg in that. So it's not a true comparison, but for me, the price of gas would have to almost double to wipe out the advantage.

[Elumia]

Diesel costs more because you get less of it per barrel of oil. Typical refining heats the oil and it separates into its various components. To get more of a desired product like diesel you have to "crack" the molecules in order to reform into a different constituent. (my lay understanding of the refining process). More processing = more cost. Also, because of requirements, Sulphur has to be removed from diesel to meet current ultra low sulphur requirements.
I found the list below on a oil web site:
WHAT A BARREL OF CRUDE OIL MAKES

Product Gallons per barrel
gasoline 19.5
distillate fuel oil
(Includes both home heating oil and diesel fuel) 9.2
kerosene-type jet fuel 4.1
residual fuel oil
(Heavy oils used as fuels in industry, marine transportation and for electric power generation) 2.3
liquefied refinery gasses 1.9
still gas 1.9
coke 1.8
asphalt and road oil 1.3
petrochemical feedstocks 1.2
lubricants 0.5
kerosene 0.2
other 0.3

Figures are based on 1995 average yields for U.S. refineries. One barrel contains 42 gallons of crude oil. The total volume of products made is 2.2 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil. This represents "processing gain."

CD your Audi requires premium, so the price isn't that much different!

Mark

[mikeschn]

I've heard that in Germany they will put sunflower seed oil in the gas tank of a diesel car.

Mike...

[Claw]

I own a little Ryder Systems (R) stock and from the first of the year the price has gone from the middle $40s to the middle $60s/share. Ryder and other large trucking companies have the ability to buy fuel on future markets and control the cost of their fuel better than an independent Owner Operater who typically buys close to the pump price. In the past 6 months the pump price diesel fuel price has gone from about $2.96/gal to $3.96/ gal. The biggest cost for an independent OO increased 33%! The ability of most to just shut down is pretty limited unless you want the equity in $150K+ lost to the bank. The truck payments keep coming and they are pretty tough to meet unless your rolling.

The good OO businessmen does not base his operating costs on getting 8-9 mile/gal. A better number would be 6 or less. and the only profit might be in beating that number.

Who knows if the slow down can be effective. But it does have people considering the expenses of those hard workers who bring us all the things we need.

[caseydog]

Diesel costs more because you get less of it per barrel of oil. Typical refining heats the oil and it separates into its various components. To get more of a desired product like diesel you have to "crack" the molecules in order to reform into a different constituent. (my lay understanding of the refining process). More processing = more cost. Also, because of requirements, Sulphur has to be removed from diesel to meet current ultra low sulphur requirements.
I found the list below on a oil web site:
WHAT A BARREL OF CRUDE OIL MAKES

Product Gallons per barrel
gasoline 19.5
distillate fuel oil
(Includes both home heating oil and diesel fuel) 9.2
kerosene-type jet fuel 4.1
residual fuel oil
(Heavy oils used as fuels in industry, marine transportation and for electric power generation) 2.3
liquefied refinery gasses 1.9
still gas 1.9
coke 1.8
asphalt and road oil 1.3
petrochemical feedstocks 1.2
lubricants 0.5
kerosene 0.2
other 0.3

Figures are based on 1995 average yields for U.S. refineries. One barrel contains 42 gallons of crude oil. The total volume of products made is 2.2 gallons greater than the original 42 gallons of crude oil. This represents "processing gain."

CD your Audi requires premium, so the price isn't that much different!

Mark

I know about refining -- I grew up with a Dad who was a Chemical Engineer, and worked in refineries for most of the time I lived at home. I learned more than I ever wanted to know about catalytic cracking units listening to my dad -- refining was more than his career, it was more of an obsession.

What I don't get is why the spread seems to be so great, since there is not yet a reason for it, that I have seen. The difference between Regular Gasoline prices and Diesel should remain fairly constant, unless there is a change of supply or demand. The only change I have seen is in the level of sulfur allowed, which is not that big a deal.

I guess I need to do some googling.

[toypusher]

There was a truckers protest in Harrisburg on Monday (or yesterday, I can't remember now) with about 250 trucks participating. They are supposed to be going to DC with about 2000 or more trucks sometime soon!!

[len19070]

This is what Should happen..and we should all support them.

Its funny, we'll ignore the truckers but really bitc.h..complane about the prices of food, heating oil and retail goods. And when the the retailer blames it on the shipper.... and we say, OH...............

Remember Michael Rennie in the "Day the Earth Stood Still"?

Thats the only way any Motor Vehicle Strike would be effective.

Everywhere, everything.

As it is, for every 10 people who are trying to conserve, theres always that one "Rectal Crevasse" That runs a BIG ENGINE Vehicle with only one person in it to, and from work past the pack every day. (like the 4-5 weiners I work with who are totally oblivious to any sort of energy situation)

And that persons squandering cancels out the efforts of the 10 who try.

Unless you have a legitimate use for a Huge Gas Guzzling vehicle, If you have it "Just cause its Cool" You should be made to pay a "Weiner Tax" And that should be high enough to not want you to be "Cool" anymore...and should also go towards alternative fuel research.

More people buy trucks/Suv's that DON'T need them than do.

As it has been in the past, people have been given tax breaks for buying Big vehicles. And never energy efficient...look at GM's electric Cars.

JMHO

Happy Trails

Len

[caseydog]

Remember Michael Rennie in the "Day the Earth Stood Still"?

Thats the only way any Motor Vehicle Strike would be effective.

As it is, for every 10 people who are trying to conserve, theres always that one "Rectal Crevasse" That runs a BIG ENGINE Vehicle with only one person in it to, and from work past the pack every day. (like the 4-5 weiners I work with who are totally oblivious to any sort of energy situation)

And that persons squandering cancels out the efforts of the 10 who try.

Unless you have a legitimate use for a Huge Gas Guzzling vehicle, If you have it "Just cause its Cool" You should be made to pay a "Weiner Tax" And that should be high enough to not want you to be "Cool" anymore...and should also go towards alternative fuel research.

More people buy trucks/Suv's that DON'T need them than do.

As it has been in the past, people have been given tax breaks for buying Big vehicles. And never energy efficient...look at GM's electric Cars.

JMHO

Happy Trails

Len

I believe that, in some, if not all European countries, when you buy a car, the taxes you pay are partially based on how much fuel the car uses.

I don't know a lot about it, but hear about it from time to time in the European car magazines I read.

Maybe Andrew can fill us in on this.

I crave better fuel economy because it is good for my wallet, not just good for the nation. Through my work, I have driven all the currently available Diesel cars and SUVs over the last year, and I love them. Not just the efficiency, but the performance. These are NOT your father's diesel engines. They perform, and get good milage.

CD

[len19070]

I think you have hit the nail on the head...We should all go European when it comes to vehicle MPG conservation.

Can I get a Halalulla and a Euro on that!

However...Not to step on our European Members toes or anything, but the real "Kiss off OPEC" example is Brazil.

Happy Trails

Len

[Kurt (Indiana)]

So why is diesel so expensive anyway? Lack of refinery capacity or lack of full production at the refineries ?

[DrCrash]

In the 80's when gas spiked last , the European market switched there cars from gas [ petrol ] to diesel fuel.. So we are now exporting alot more diesel fuel overseas.. Supply and demand.

[DrCrash]

That and China is growin along with India leaps n bounds and driving them
European cars ..

[caseydog]

Big oil CEOs testified before Congress today. They say that if Congress takes away their sweet tax breaks, it will be a "tax increase." They said, "A tax increase now will make pump prices higher," but nobody said anything about raising taxes on them. They are just talking about ending tax breaks that were designed to help them when oil was $25 a barrel and they could not develop new sources profitably.

Taxpayers helped big oil through rough times, and now big oil wants taxpayers to help them through the boom times. Amazing. Talk about big balls. You make 40-billion dollars in profit, and expect taxpayers to support your profits with corporate welfare, on top of paying through the nose for gasoline.

Of course, key Republicans in the hearing said that the oil companies need more tax breaks, and we need to open every square foot of America to drilling. Obviously they did not get the memo that there is not enough oil in the US to meet our ever-growing demand for the stuff. But, it stalls any real progress for long enough for the oil companies to turn in several more years of record profits.

Republicans also (once again) snookered the oh so willing to cave-in Dems into a "bi-partisan" deal to bail out banks and builders in the mortgage crisis. A deal that eliminates any kind of help for consumers who are going to lose their homes to foreclosure.

Once again, government is taking care of the wealthy first, in hopes that the wealthy will take care of the rest through "trickle-down" economics.




Okay, I feel better -- rant done.

Now, I have to write a review of the SL63 AMG, a $160,000 car that gets God knows how little mileage. Maybe I need to trash it. It's evil, but damn, it was fun to drive. What to do, what to do?

CD

[Kurt (Indiana)]

CD, I thought I heard Nancy and the crew promise to lower gas prices if they were elected and "in control" of things. What happened?

They we're just toying with us were they.

I'd like to see what other industries are seeing "record profits". I'll look some up to see if Congress should go after them too.

[caseydog]

CD, I thought I heard Nancy and the crew promise to lower gas prices if they were elected and "in control" of things. What happened?

They we're just toying with us were they.

I'd like to see what other industries are seeing "record profits". I'll look some up to see if Congress should go after them too.

I have no problem with record profits. But to expect taxpayers to subsidize those record profits is pure chutzpah.

CD