Canine Joint Suppliments

[angib]

Glucosamine has turned me into (something more like) a puppy, due to the start of some arthritis and the stuff I buy is actually the veterinary version here. I don't know if it's the same in the US, but glucosamine switched from being a quack remedy to a recognised medicine over here a few years ago.

The problem here with its previous quack medecine history is that there is no drug standard for it and its quality is very variable - something to the the ratio of glucosamine and sulphate. You certainly need to compare the glucosamine content and not the weight of the tablets.

Glucosamine takes 2-4 weeks to develop its full effect, so your dog needs to try it for a month to know if will work.

Andrew

[planovet]

If you try aspirin...check with your vet first. It has to be buffered aspirin. It doesn't work as well as doggie anti-inflammatory meds would work because buffered aspirin isn't processed through the kidneys as well.

Actually, the reason you would prefer a prescription anti-inflammatory over aspirin is the effects on the gut, stomach specifically. Aspirin is a nonselective COX inhibitor. It inhibits both the "good" COX-1 enzyme as well as the "bad" COX-2 enzyme. The inhibition of COX-2 helps reduce inflammation. But the inhibition of COX-1 can cause gastric ulceration, platelet dysfunction and decreased renal perfusion. Most newer prescription anti-inflammatory available at your vet inhibits the COX-2 while sparing the COX-1. This causes fewer side effects.

In layman's terms:

Can you use aspirin? Yes, but be aware that you are at in increased risk of the above mentioned side effects. Like Barb said, it needs to be buffered and given with food. Also, never use two different anti-inflammatory at the same time (i.e. a prescription one and aspirin). Some anti-inflammatories work better than others in certain dogs. So when one stops working there are others to try.

Our vet recommended over the counter Glucosamine & Chondroitin.

Good choice to add to the anti-inflammatory. Unfortunately some are better in quality than others. There is no regulation for the over the counter ones. Of course, the ones you get from your vet are of higher quality but they can be downright expensive. Over the counter products are good if you can find a good quality one. I've been told by a pain specialist that Osteo Bi-Flex is a good product to try.

One thing you might want to consider. Obesity is strongly associated with the development of Osteoarthritis (OA). If your animal is overweight (as a lot of Labs are), a restricted diet and daily exercise can significantly reduce the effects of OA.

Disclaimer: While I'm a veterinarian in real life, I don't play one on TV. Every animal is different and you really should consult your regular veterinarian before starting any new medication or diet on your pet.

[TPMcGinty]

Thanks Planovet! I appreciate the advice! I am giving him buffered asprin with food as directed by my vet. I also got some Glucosamine from Petsmart. I'm not sure how good it is but it seemed to get good reviews from the people who used it.

He is overweight due to winter inactivity (my fault), the drugs he's on (not my fault), and too many treats (my fault again). I think he overdid the increase in activity last week due to the neighbor kids throwing the ball for him too much. Sometimes he doesn't know when to quit. As for the treats, good thing he like veggies!

[cs_whypt2]

You could give him Rimadyl. It will make him feel better, for a day or two fast. Problem is, with long time use (one tablet a day for over a year) it can badly effect the liver / kidneys (I forgot wich one.) I give a baby Asprin to my dog when he is slugish, and if he is really not looking good or hurting, I give him half a rimadyl and he is doing good with ing a couple hours.

(Elffy is a 75 pound Keeshond, Australian Shepard mix. 12 years old (just to get my dosage compaired to yours))

Dianne

[Geron]

I buy a dog food (Nutro's Natural Choice) that contains a Glucosamine supplement.

I'm not sure what the content of Glucosamine is in the food. Penny might have to eat several pounds a day to get a proper dosage???? Perhaps it's only a sales gimmick. The dosage is likely found on their website. Just haven't checked yet.

geron

Edited: Found it! 625mg/kg
I take 3000 mg per day

If my math is correct that is a very light dosage compared to what I take (two triple strengths per day). Penny would have to eat more than 5 lbs per day to approach the dosage I take. NOT! Even the supplemented food would seem to require a "supplement."

[TPMcGinty]

I buy a dog food (Nutro's Natural Choice) that contains a Glucosamine supplement.

I'm not sure what the content of Glucosamine is in the food. Penny might have to eat several pounds a day to get a proper dosage???? Perhaps it's only a sales gimmick. The dosage is likely found on their website. Just haven't checked yet.

geron

Edited: Found it! 625mg/kg
I take 3000 mg per day

If my math is correct that is a very light dosage compared to what I take (two triple strengths per day). Penny would have to eat more than 5 lbs per day to approach the dosage I take. NOT! Even the supplemented food would seem to require a "supplement."

I feed Baron the same dog food but the Large Breed Senior variety. It doesn't seem to be enough in his case.

[kiacker]

As another vet, I second the advice planovet gave. Please be cautious with the use of human medications in your dog. I saw a 7 year old Lab last month whom the owner had been self medicating with ibuprofen for arthritis. Seems when 1 pill didn't work he gave him more. The poor dog died because the ibuprofen destroyed his liver.

Glucosamine and chondrotin are the supplements we recommend on a regular basis. The levels of these are not high enough in your dog food you are feeding, so supplementation is the best route. Please check with your vet as far as what dose you should give your dog.

Another supplement we have great success with is omega 3 fatty acids like in fish oil capsules. Look for EPA & DHA on the label. OFA help decrease inflammation at higher doses as well as help with kidney disease, skin problems, and slows the growth of cancers. Again, check with your vet. My 96 lb Chessie takes 3V HP Caps (veterinary product - you can find it online & don't need a script for) which ends up being 1620 mg EPA and 1050 mg DHA daily. Was able to take him off drugs once he had been on the OFA after only 2 weeks! I also take it (human form, not his 3v caps!) and can speak from experience that it has eliminated my arthritic knee pain.

Good luck with your pup! Gotta love those Labs!

[TPMcGinty]

As another vet, I second the advice planovet gave. Please be cautious with the use of human medications in your dog. I saw a 7 year old Lab last month whom the owner had been self medicating with ibuprofen for arthritis. Seems when 1 pill didn't work he gave him more. The poor dog died because the ibuprofen destroyed his liver.

Glucosamine and chondrotin are the supplements we recommend on a regular basis. The levels of these are not high enough in your dog food you are feeding, so supplementation is the best route. Please check with your vet as far as what dose you should give your dog.

Another supplement we have great success with is omega 3 fatty acids like in fish oil capsules. Look for EPA & DHA on the label. OFA help decrease inflammation at higher doses as well as help with kidney disease, skin problems, and slows the growth of cancers. Again, check with your vet. My 96 lb Chessie takes 3V HP Caps (veterinary product - you can find it online & don't need a script for) which ends up being 1620 mg EPA and 1050 mg DHA daily. Was able to take him off drugs once he had been on the OFA after only 2 weeks! I also take it (human form, not his 3v caps!) and can speak from experience that it has eliminated my arthritic knee pain.

Good luck with your pup! Gotta love those Labs!

Thanks Doc! I really appreciate your advice! I have got him on the Glucosamine tablets and he seems to be doing better. I will check on the Omega 3 for him. He has allergies too and it sure couldn't hurt. This dog is on more pills than my Grandma but I love him to death!

[Gaelen]

What the vets said...it can be tricky and even dangerous to use over-the-counter human meds for animals. Use them only with your vet's advice and supervision.

I used to get my glucosamine/chondroitin supplements my older setter (who ran in agility trials until he was 11) from these people, who I ran into at a show in Springfield MA. Bard loved the 'bites' biscuits (he was a PITA about taking pills, and I give pills to animals for a living....)

http://www.seapet.com/

The other thing that can help a LOT is veterinary chiropractic, especially as the dog ages. I've worked with a local chiropracter and with veterinarians with chiro training, and used to have Bard, Jazz, Reuben and Casey routinely adjusted. I do massage on all of the animals, and Tellington Touch, but chiro addresses things I can't get to with simple massage and TT therapy.

[DJBear]

I have a 13 year old Bichon Frise with some joint problems, mostly arthritis related if my memory serves me right.
We attempted the Glucosamine treatment, but it affected his gastro-intestinal tract and we had to look for something else. Additionally, he incurred a tendon injury in his left knee area, and we were determined to treat him without compromising anything else healthwise.
Our groomer, who was raised riding and training horses, recommended MSM. It is available in some grocery stores (Henry's and Whole Foods in San Diego area) and it comes in granular form, so we can mix it in with Ted's dinner. We checked with our vet and she was all for it. Ted's leg healed fine over about a six-week period, and we use it regularly to maintain his mobility.
Just another suggestion. Best of luck with your pooch!

[TPMcGinty]

I have a 13 year old Bichon Frise with some joint problems, mostly arthritis related if my memory serves me right.
We attempted the Glucosamine treatment, but it affected his gastro-intestinal tract and we had to look for something else. Additionally, he incurred a tendon injury in his left knee area, and we were determined to treat him without compromising anything else healthwise.
Our groomer, who was raised riding and training horses, recommended MSM. It is available in some grocery stores (Henry's and Whole Foods in San Diego area) and it comes in granular form, so we can mix it in with Ted's dinner. We checked with our vet and she was all for it. Ted's leg healed fine over about a six-week period, and we use it regularly to maintain his mobility.
Just another suggestion. Best of luck with your pooch!

So far the Glucosamine has been working but I did see that some of the Canine Glucosamine also have MSM. I will look into it. Thanks for your help.

[dmb90260]

Costco in my area has just added a canine glucosmine supplement. It is in the pet supplies section.

[planovet]

Please be cautious with the use of human medications in your dog. I saw a 7 year old Lab last month whom the owner had been self medicating with ibuprofen for arthritis. Seems when 1 pill didn't work he gave him more. The poor dog died because the ibuprofen destroyed his liver.

Been there, seen that. Seems that a lot of problems I see are people self medicating their pets (without advice) along with the opposite, people stopping meds before they are finished ("They were feeling better").

I agree with kiacker that omega 3 fatty acids can help. It has been used in humans with rheumatoid arthritis. While there have been no controlled clinical trials to document it's efficacy, anecdotal evidence has been positive. I also agree that the levels of glucosamine and chondrotin in foods supplemented with it are relatively low. If your pet is showing signs of OA then they will need additional supplementation. But if you have a younger to middle aged dog that may be predisposed to OA and is not showing signs of OA, the food alone is a good start. Just be aware that there are many things that a vet has at his/her disposal to help your pet. Each one depends on the specific pet and the severity of the problem.

One additional thing I found that helps is Adequan. Adequan is a polysulfated glycosaminoglycan injection. It is a joint specific anti-inflammatory that affects several enzymes within the joint capsule. I have seen almost completely lame dogs make a huge turnaround while on this drug. The down side is that it is rather expensive and you must take your dog in for the injections on a regular basis. Of course, YMMV.

Like I mentioned before, weight control can go a long way to alleviate joint pain and can decrease the need for medication. It can be the cheapest and best thing you can do for your pet.

Good luck!

[angib]

Like I mentioned before, weight control can go a long way to alleviate joint pain and can decrease the need for medication. It can be the cheapest and best thing you can do for your pet.

Sadly, this is equally true for humans. Which is how come I fantasise about cheese and chocolate, not women, these days.....

Andrew

[TPMcGinty]

Please be cautious with the use of human medications in your dog. I saw a 7 year old Lab last month whom the owner had been self medicating with ibuprofen for arthritis. Seems when 1 pill didn't work he gave him more. The poor dog died because the ibuprofen destroyed his liver.

Been there, seen that. Seems that a lot of problems I see are people self medicating their pets (without advice) along with the opposite, people stopping meds before they are finished ("They were feeling better").

I agree with kiacker that omega 3 fatty acids can help. It has been used in humans with rheumatoid arthritis. While there have been no controlled clinical trials to document it's efficacy, anecdotal evidence has been positive. I also agree that the levels of glucosamine and chondrotin in foods supplemented with it are relatively low. If your pet is showing signs of OA then they will need additional supplementation. But if you have a younger to middle aged dog that may be predisposed to OA and is not showing signs of OA, the food alone is a good start. Just be aware that there are many things that a vet has at his/her disposal to help your pet. Each one depends on the specific pet and the severity of the problem.

One additional thing I found that helps is Adequan. Adequan is a polysulfated glycosaminoglycan injection. It is a joint specific anti-inflammatory that affects several enzymes within the joint capsule. I have seen almost completely lame dogs make a huge turnaround while on this drug. The down side is that it is rather expensive and you must take your dog in for the injections on a regular basis. Of course, YMMV.

Like I mentioned before, weight control can go a long way to alleviate joint pain and can decrease the need for medication. It can be the cheapest and best thing you can do for your pet.

Good luck!

Thanks for the great advice! One of the things I am working on is Baron's weight (and my own). So far he has lost about 15 lbs (wish I could say the same) but we both have a ways to go.

I also discuss with my vet anything I add to his diet or medications. I don't want a bad drug interaction since he is on so many other medications for his other medical issues. I was just asking on this forum to get some ideas on a way to help him with his arthritis that wouldn't put me in the poor house. I already spend a good chunk on his meds and too much more will require me to work more overtime (and spend less time with him )