A morality quiz for you--but do you have any also?

[TRAIL-OF-TEARS]

We have been lucky round here. closest toll road I know of is about 200 miles away. Unfortunatley that will change soon they are commin

[crankshaft]

I don't think once a toll has been levied, they will ever lift it. I haven't seen one lifted yet, and they just keep on adding more toll roads. As for taxes? They're gonna keep raising them regardless. At least, we don't have a state income tax....yet.[/quote]

Dale.... Many years ago, here in San Diego, The powers that be decided we needed to spend several million dollors to put a bridge across the bay to Coronado. (Toll Bridge that is) When the bridge was paid for the toll was dis continued. HOWEVER. The same powers that be decided to spend several hundred thousand dollors on the same bridge to de activate the tool booths. Most of us screamed. A pad lock on the tool booth would have been a lot cheaper. Now they are screaming because the powers don't have the money to repair the pot holes in the same bridge... Go figure.

But !!!! We do have State income Tax.


Crankshaft

[madjack]

...the worst hi-way in America is the Pennsyvania Turnpike...a toll road. As far as tolls go...a big truck making a pu/delivery in the NYC/Long Island area pays $65 to go from Jersey and back and there are THOUSANDS of trucks a day making that trip
madjack

[TRAIL-OF-TEARS]

crankshaft,
I know the bridge you speek of. I was on it in August, and it was a bumpy ride. If I rememer correctly some of the booths are still there are they not?

[IraRat]

...A big truck making a pu/delivery in the NYC/Long Island area pays $65 to go from Jersey and back

Wow. And okay--I don't mind this thread being hijacked to roads, since that's where it started.

There's a great PBS documentary on Robert Moses, the guy who designed, built New York's modern highway system in the 40s. He basically also engineered neighborhoods at the same time--making it possible to go from Point A to Point Z without ever seeing any of the points in-between. (That's why Route 66 was so tantalizing to a lot of us.)

Great show, but one of the main points they made was that he was basically given dictitorial (spelling?) powers, and that the Triborough Port and tunnel Authority was created as a separate, PRIVATE company to build roads and bridges, and given the authority to tax us through tolls to pay for their constuction.

They were NOT to tax us forever for these projects, but they decided to change that, you know?

Kind of unheard of. A private company with unlimited powers, more or less, including the power to tax us via tolls. It's not like any of this money goes to pay for any other city services.

And to add icing on the cake, they're the guys who built the World Trade Center, subsidized by our tolls, plus OTHER public monies they were given from the state. (Our tax money.)

Can you please tell me what two 110-story buildings have to do with roads and bridges?

[s4son]

Religion and politics, two topics sure to provoke a fight.

Ira,
The financial loss due to you not paying tolls is minimal. However, what if you aren’t the only one not paying. Sooner or later they gotta get the money somewhere either through raising taxes or extending the period they collect tolls.

Scott F.

This has nothing to do with Ira's decision or the morality of it. You just hit one of my buttons.

This state (Florida), although I am a native and love it, does continue to charge tolls long after the road is paid for. I don't think once a toll has been levied, they will ever lift it. I haven't seen one lifted yet, and they just keep on adding more toll roads. As for taxes? They're gonna keep raising them regardless. At least, we don't have a state income tax....yet.

Cracker,
I apoligize, I didn't mean to push anyone's buttons. The morality is pretty simple (IMHO). Whether you agree with it or not, you are required to pay a toll to use the road. Your choices are use the road and pay or find another route. Not paying the toll is dishonest. If you can live with yourself and don't think it's that big of a deal, save your 75 cents and drive on through. If you feel it is dishonest pay.

We have had a turnpike from the Kansas-Missouri border on I-70 for ever. I agree, I'm sure it was paid for years ago. on the other hand we have two bridges here in town that were once toll bridges and have had the tolls removed. I don't know how they decide which ones stay and which ones go.

Scott F.

[crankshaft]

crankshaft,
I know the bridge you speek of. I was on it in August, and it was a bumpy ride. If I rememer correctly some of the booths are still there are they not?

Yep there is one still in place. Used for storage.. All of the electronics used for the monitoring of the tolls is gone. And the ride is still bumpy.

Next time you are out this way. Stop in and talk.

Crankshaft

[gman]

I would be sute there was not a camera recording your every move each time you went thru, may get a wopping bill in the mail.

[toypusher]

...the worst hi-way in America is the Pennsyvania Turnpike...a toll road. As far as tolls go...a big truck making a pu/delivery in the NYC/Long Island area pays $65 to go from Jersey and back and there are THOUSANDS of trucks a day making that trip
madjack

You should live here! I think that PA in general has been rated the worst roads by the truckers, moree years than any other in America!

[IraRat]

I would be sute there was not a camera recording your every move each time you went thru, may get a wopping bill in the mail.

Nope. I make the move like I'm tossing it in. It only activates an alert and camera when you go through without the green light.

Plus, the big point you're missing is, the system thinks I HAVE the Sunpass, making me legal. (Sunpass is portable, meaning it's not tied into any one vehicle.)

But the emphasis on "getting caught" is interesting, because as a morality question, getting caught isn't the issue. I was curious as to whether it's either clearly right, wrong or somewhere in the middle--when there's no chance of gettng caught at all.

[TonyCooper]

...being good and doing right has nothing to do with anything other than being good and doing right..................
madjack

Well Stated...

Be Good for Goodness Sake!

[Nitetimes]

Ever wonder why it is that there is always constuction going on on the PA turnpike? It goes something like this, when the road was originally started it was to be a toll road to pay the cost of building it, then once it was complete and after a certain period of time (can't recall what it was) the tolls were to be discontinued. Now the loophole in that, as long as there is construction going on on the road it isn't considered complete, hence the continued tolls. If you are wondering if it will ever be complete let me ask you this. Have you noticed all the nice new toll booths that have recently been installed? And yes it is still one of the worst roads in the state.
I recently read somewhere that they were considering turning 80 into a toll road too. Oh boy, like we don't pay enough already.

[TomS]

This state (Florida), although I am a native and love it, does continue to charge tolls long after the road is paid for. I don't think once a toll has been levied, they will ever lift it. I haven't seen one lifted yet, and they just keep on adding more toll roads. As for taxes? They're gonna keep raising them regardless. At least, we don't have a state income tax....yet.

We have the same situation here the People's Repu.... er, I mean the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The original bonds issued in the 50's to build Massachuetts Turnpike were paid off decades ago. Yet, the tolls continue. Now, thanks ot the Big Dig, a multi-billion dollar debackle, the tolls are sure to continue for decades to come.

So Ira, my friend, the moral of the story is this.

"Don't steal. The government hates competition."

[s4son]

Completely Off Topic, Off Topic.
A couple years ago two female co-workers went to Boston for a couple days work. They caught a cab at the airport to go to their hotel. The driver, who spoke very broken english, asked if they had heard of Boston's Big Dig. Of course that isn't what they heard, they thought he said Big D**k. When they said no he offered to show it to them. They said no thanks but this ambassador wanted to make sure the girls saw all the sights. He tells them the Big Dig is right on their way to the hotel. Why he even has a friend that works on the Big Dig. Now they are really freaking out. They convince him to go directly to the hotel and not to go anywhere else. The next day at the office everyone is talking about the Big Dig, and they finally figure out what he was talking about. That poor guy probably thought they were nuts.

Scott F.

[Turtle49]

But the emphasis on "getting caught" is interesting, because as a morality question, getting caught isn't the issue. I was curious as to whether it's either clearly right, wrong or somewhere in the middle--when there's no chance of gettng caught at all.

I once heard an old saying "It's not illegal if you don't get caught". The truth is that it is illegal if you don't get caught, you just didn't get caught.

Now were stepping into a philosophical area. Does a falling tree make a sound if no one is there to hear it? The answer, I believe, is yes. And if you apply that same reasoning to the toll booth, whether you get caught or not, than you would have to say that is definitely wrong to not pay.
Now I am not a proponent of taxes, but as an American I do believe we are obligated to pay our fair share. But before you jump all up and down on me you should know that I believe we all currently pay way too much. I can always find a good excuse to not pay taxes, but there just excuses. Until I get elected and change the laws, I guess I should keep paying.

oh well, good luck with the debate.